OP
SW CQB 45
Member
Thanks for the info to all...I will add more to my response later tonight or this weekend.
Late 40's and PPC 50yd B27 sighting / vision
- Thread starter SW CQB 45
- Start date
MKT
Member
JP and AussieD bring up a couple good points.
If your mind is saying to shoot you'll definitely jerk the shot. You have to gte your mind out of the game, let the shots break and do everything in your power to not tell yourself "I'm gonna get it....NOW". My best scores, either aggregate or match 3 and/or match 5 have been when I was dead tired, had a little too much fun the night before or when I am able to blank my mind and just watch that front sight while squeezing and counting through six and not worrying that the sights, while aligned, aren't exactly where I want them. When I do that I can post a 238 with a high x count for match 3, or a 595+ match 5.
Now to breathing. You are pretty close to sea level where you're at. The air is nice and thick with O2, enough so that you can shoot 2 maybe even 3 shots between breaths (at least you could in a pinch). If you try that in Albuquerque or Raton you'll find out that it isn't going to work. The O2 is much thinner at altitude and you'll be starving for air after 2 shots. You need to train yourself to breathe for each and every shot at anything farther than 15 yards. Funny thing about that, it will also help your timing. Breathe, front sight and squeeze, front sight and keep squeezing shot breaks, hold trigger to rear and follow the front sight where ever it goes, keep holding trigger to rear back until back on target then let trigger forward (follow through) deep inhale and repeat the whole process 5 more times. It works.
I tend to concentrate on the front sight so hard, especially in the team match, that I will completely shut down and stop breathing. Not holding my breathe, just stop breathing. I know this about myself (took a while to learn it though) and now if I am paired up with someone I haven't shot with before the only thing I need from them besides a time check going into left and right hand, or the ocassional sight adjustment, is a reminder to breath every 10-15 seconds. That keeps me breathing. Funny story; first year for Albuquerque with the NPSC, I'm shooting team with a team mate I have never shot team match with. He asks what I want and I tell him to remind me to breathe, just to breathe. Targets turn and I drop to sitting, first 6 are all x's. Reload and go to prone and put 6 more 10's and x's and go to left hand. Left hand looks good for the first 3 shots then the sights start getting real fuzzy, I get the next 3 off without too much damage. Go to right hand and I am struggling, bad. I manage to get all six off, but it was about the 3rd shot when I realized I was O2 starved. I stopped shooting sucked in oxygen then fired off the last 3 with the last shot on the turn. My partner/coach asks me what happened, because my first 15 shots were all almost x's then i went to h***. I looked at him, shook my head and reminded him that he was supposed to remind me to breathe. It was a bad ugly match 5 with 8's, 7's and at least one zero as I recall, all due to the lack of O2.
You might remember watching us in Austin last year during the match 5, my partner/coach would lean in every so often and talk to me. He was reminding me to breathe, breathe Mike, breathe.
You gotta breathe.
If your mind is saying to shoot you'll definitely jerk the shot. You have to gte your mind out of the game, let the shots break and do everything in your power to not tell yourself "I'm gonna get it....NOW". My best scores, either aggregate or match 3 and/or match 5 have been when I was dead tired, had a little too much fun the night before or when I am able to blank my mind and just watch that front sight while squeezing and counting through six and not worrying that the sights, while aligned, aren't exactly where I want them. When I do that I can post a 238 with a high x count for match 3, or a 595+ match 5.
Now to breathing. You are pretty close to sea level where you're at. The air is nice and thick with O2, enough so that you can shoot 2 maybe even 3 shots between breaths (at least you could in a pinch). If you try that in Albuquerque or Raton you'll find out that it isn't going to work. The O2 is much thinner at altitude and you'll be starving for air after 2 shots. You need to train yourself to breathe for each and every shot at anything farther than 15 yards. Funny thing about that, it will also help your timing. Breathe, front sight and squeeze, front sight and keep squeezing shot breaks, hold trigger to rear and follow the front sight where ever it goes, keep holding trigger to rear back until back on target then let trigger forward (follow through) deep inhale and repeat the whole process 5 more times. It works.
I tend to concentrate on the front sight so hard, especially in the team match, that I will completely shut down and stop breathing. Not holding my breathe, just stop breathing. I know this about myself (took a while to learn it though) and now if I am paired up with someone I haven't shot with before the only thing I need from them besides a time check going into left and right hand, or the ocassional sight adjustment, is a reminder to breath every 10-15 seconds. That keeps me breathing. Funny story; first year for Albuquerque with the NPSC, I'm shooting team with a team mate I have never shot team match with. He asks what I want and I tell him to remind me to breathe, just to breathe. Targets turn and I drop to sitting, first 6 are all x's. Reload and go to prone and put 6 more 10's and x's and go to left hand. Left hand looks good for the first 3 shots then the sights start getting real fuzzy, I get the next 3 off without too much damage. Go to right hand and I am struggling, bad. I manage to get all six off, but it was about the 3rd shot when I realized I was O2 starved. I stopped shooting sucked in oxygen then fired off the last 3 with the last shot on the turn. My partner/coach asks me what happened, because my first 15 shots were all almost x's then i went to h***. I looked at him, shook my head and reminded him that he was supposed to remind me to breathe. It was a bad ugly match 5 with 8's, 7's and at least one zero as I recall, all due to the lack of O2.
You might remember watching us in Austin last year during the match 5, my partner/coach would lean in every so often and talk to me. He was reminding me to breathe, breathe Mike, breathe.
You gotta breathe.
eyes and oxygen
Yep, Breathing......
MKT, some good points about breathing. I try and run a cadence, "Breath, Squeeze, Follow through" at 50 yards, doesnt always work, in particular in the tropics. The high humidity will condense on your glasses, regardless of anti fog use, if you dont breath regularly.
Those with extra pounds on them (myself included), may find greater difficulty in particularly sitting and prone. I find taking a couple extra breaths to oxygenate the eyes and body between positions and even part way through sitting helps.
Cheers,
Aussie D
Yep, Breathing......
MKT, some good points about breathing. I try and run a cadence, "Breath, Squeeze, Follow through" at 50 yards, doesnt always work, in particular in the tropics. The high humidity will condense on your glasses, regardless of anti fog use, if you dont breath regularly.
Those with extra pounds on them (myself included), may find greater difficulty in particularly sitting and prone. I find taking a couple extra breaths to oxygenate the eyes and body between positions and even part way through sitting helps.
Cheers,
Aussie D
OP
SW CQB 45
Member
Aussie, I am going to take your advice.
I am going to camp out at the 50 with four targets and slow practice, just like you say.
Yes...I catch myself not breathing.
MKT, the guy to my right was talking to himself too on Thursday, so maybe I aint alone. I am sometimes not smooth and when I make a small mistake and playing catch up....I get sloppy.
Scoot....you may have hit on something. I have a post on the 1911forum with being over 40 and eyesight on duty with a handgun, carbine and shotgun. while I want to see clear and far on duty, it does nothing for front sight clarity. I often thought if I were ever involved in an on duty shooting, I would have to look over my "see far" lenses to see my front sight better (should it require a precision shot). I am going to look at getting my next prescription with something a little more distant and will use your suggestion as a guide.
I then need to change my statement to myself, breath instead of shoot.
I locked up on the quick 15 with my service gun (revo) and did not get two rounds off. I recall talking to myself to shoot at that stage and my brain was telling my trigger finger it was not perfect and it cost me. I just need to shoot and stop trying to be perfect. at the very minimum a 7 is better than a 0 and I did really well with my service revo at 452 eating two rounds. I tell myself it could have been a 472 which is good for me.
thanks guys....I need to practice, BREATH and look at some different strength specs.
I am going to camp out at the 50 with four targets and slow practice, just like you say.
Yes...I catch myself not breathing.
MKT, the guy to my right was talking to himself too on Thursday, so maybe I aint alone. I am sometimes not smooth and when I make a small mistake and playing catch up....I get sloppy.
Scoot....you may have hit on something. I have a post on the 1911forum with being over 40 and eyesight on duty with a handgun, carbine and shotgun. while I want to see clear and far on duty, it does nothing for front sight clarity. I often thought if I were ever involved in an on duty shooting, I would have to look over my "see far" lenses to see my front sight better (should it require a precision shot). I am going to look at getting my next prescription with something a little more distant and will use your suggestion as a guide.
I then need to change my statement to myself, breath instead of shoot.
I locked up on the quick 15 with my service gun (revo) and did not get two rounds off. I recall talking to myself to shoot at that stage and my brain was telling my trigger finger it was not perfect and it cost me. I just need to shoot and stop trying to be perfect. at the very minimum a 7 is better than a 0 and I did really well with my service revo at 452 eating two rounds. I tell myself it could have been a 472 which is good for me.
thanks guys....I need to practice, BREATH and look at some different strength specs.
SW CQB 45,
There is a lot of good info floating around in this discussion, glad to see some may be of value.
Today I didnt get to shoot at 50 yards due to other users being present and tieing up the range. This range has frames on rails, so, the majority wins on a Saturday for practice. Positive, each bay has 4 frames, due to it being set up for an aussie match called "Service" match, which has similar serials to PPC but multiple targets and is a lot faster from 50 yards down.
What I did was concentrate on my 4 targets at 25 yards and punched out the following:
1. Kneeling 6 rds
2. Right hand barricade 6 rds
3. Left hand barricade 6 rds
4. free of the barricade unsupported 6 rds
This helped me re learn and hopefully reprogram some breathing issues, which certainly effect my kneeling and unsupported positions. It also confirmed that I shoot slightly high right hand barricade, so now have registered a "new" POA (point of aim) for 25yd Right hand barricade that sees the group centred on the target.
Now, duty vision. Having recently finished a quarter century deal with our armed forces, I would reccomend keeping the distant vision lenses for duty. It will enable you to maintain focus on the "threats", which may be moving and more than one. I am (ok was!!) willing to sacrifice a crystal clear sight picture to enable me to maintain situational awareness.
Good luck and most of all enjoy!!
Cheers,
Aussie D
There is a lot of good info floating around in this discussion, glad to see some may be of value.
Today I didnt get to shoot at 50 yards due to other users being present and tieing up the range. This range has frames on rails, so, the majority wins on a Saturday for practice. Positive, each bay has 4 frames, due to it being set up for an aussie match called "Service" match, which has similar serials to PPC but multiple targets and is a lot faster from 50 yards down.
What I did was concentrate on my 4 targets at 25 yards and punched out the following:
1. Kneeling 6 rds
2. Right hand barricade 6 rds
3. Left hand barricade 6 rds
4. free of the barricade unsupported 6 rds
This helped me re learn and hopefully reprogram some breathing issues, which certainly effect my kneeling and unsupported positions. It also confirmed that I shoot slightly high right hand barricade, so now have registered a "new" POA (point of aim) for 25yd Right hand barricade that sees the group centred on the target.
Now, duty vision. Having recently finished a quarter century deal with our armed forces, I would reccomend keeping the distant vision lenses for duty. It will enable you to maintain focus on the "threats", which may be moving and more than one. I am (ok was!!) willing to sacrifice a crystal clear sight picture to enable me to maintain situational awareness.
Good luck and most of all enjoy!!
Cheers,
Aussie D
JWM
Member
kneeling
A little off topic, but I'm getting back into NRA/PPC matches and I have a "kneeling position" question. I know when shooting the service gun match that I need to use the Barricade for "cover & support". How about the 1500 match ? Do I have an option and what do you suggest ? One knee down or both ?
A little off topic, but I'm getting back into NRA/PPC matches and I have a "kneeling position" question. I know when shooting the service gun match that I need to use the Barricade for "cover & support". How about the 1500 match ? Do I have an option and what do you suggest ? One knee down or both ?
MKT
Member
The kneeling position in the 1500 is an unsupported position, barricade is not permitted. The duty gun matches require the barricade for cover and support (not using the barricade will cost you 60 points).
I used to shoot one knee down, supporting my off arm on the up knee, and did well. Then I decided to shoot both knees down and use my kneeling position as a warm-up for match 4. Basically everything from the waist up is just as it is in the standing unsupported position. I do sit back on my heels and have my knees spaced about should width apart.
It will all come down to personal preference, try one knee down and both knees down and see which work best for you. You also need to factor which is easier to get in to and up out of for the transition to left side barricade.
I used to shoot one knee down, supporting my off arm on the up knee, and did well. Then I decided to shoot both knees down and use my kneeling position as a warm-up for match 4. Basically everything from the waist up is just as it is in the standing unsupported position. I do sit back on my heels and have my knees spaced about should width apart.
It will all come down to personal preference, try one knee down and both knees down and see which work best for you. You also need to factor which is easier to get in to and up out of for the transition to left side barricade.
Hi:
Long story short.
I wear tri-focals. I had the same sight picture problems.
I went to Walgreens and tried on different reading glasses.
I found the #250+ lens allowed me to see a sharp sight picture and the target "Fuzzy". Works for me. (The reading glasses were on sale for buy one, get the second pair free).
Jimmy
Long story short.
I wear tri-focals. I had the same sight picture problems.
I went to Walgreens and tried on different reading glasses.
I found the #250+ lens allowed me to see a sharp sight picture and the target "Fuzzy". Works for me. (The reading glasses were on sale for buy one, get the second pair free).
Jimmy
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