Lead fouling

[desertratr]

Will shooting jacketed rounds thru a lightly leaded barrel remove the lead? My Smith Model 629 is new. I've shot only 44 SPL in it. I've put 300 rounds of 200 gr RNFP Meister lead cast bullets thru it. All were loaded identically. I chronographed 50 loads with an average speed of about 980 ft/sec. The leading isn't severe, but is noticeable.

 

[arjay]

Some say yes and some say no.I just wrap a little copper choreboy around a bore brush and scrub it out in about 30 seconds.

 

[rockquarry]

I've tried this a few times (not recently) and found that it won't remove all the leading, but may get most of it. However, I've never fired more than a few rounds of jacketed after the cast. Bore still needed scrubbing as I recall.

I do my best to avoid leading, but sometimes it happens. About as easy to just brush out the lead after wetting the bore with solvent. I wouldn't shoot jacketed after cast if the lead buildup amounts to much.

 

[desertratr]

I do my best to avoid leading, but sometimes it happens.

How does one avoid leading? Never use lead bullets?

 

[muddocktor]

How does one avoid leading? Never use lead bullets?

I've been shooting coated lead bullets from either Missouri Bullet Company or Bayou Bullets and reload with them. I've had zero leading problems since switching to the coated lead bullets from those 2 companies and that includes shooting them out of my Rossi 92 rifle at over 1900 fps verified over a chronograph.

 

[patrickd]

No. All it will do is iron on the lead to the bore making it that much harder to remove. To avoid leading 1st use a lead bullet sized .001" over the bore size. Then limit the velocity. Look for hard cast bullets as well.

 

[rockquarry]

Lot more to it than that. In experimenting with cast bullets, you will invariably have to deal with leading and / or inaccuracy because you got one or more factors wrong: bullet fit, alloy mix, powder, pressure,
velocity, etc. Perhaps the least important factors are conventional bullet lubricant and primer, but there are exceptions to everything.

.001" over bore diameter is a very general rule and not necessarily a good one; might work, might not. Best to ignore bore diameter and shoot the largest bullet that will easily chamber in an automatic or the largest bullet that will just barely pass through a chamber throat on a revolver. This measurement may be several thousandths greater than bore diameter.

As for velocity, once you get everything right and have perfect bullet "fit" and a good bore, there's not much in the way of velocity limitations, within reason. A bullet that's too hard is usually more prone to leading than one that is too soft, but both will lead if everthing else is not right.

While not a big Elmer Keith fan, this is the best example I can think of at the moment regarding the use of a soft cast bullet. Keith preferred a 1 in 16 (tin to lead ratio with no antimony) for use in the .44 Magnum. This is a very soft mix ( somewhere around 10 BHN, I think) and he shot them at maximum .44 Magnum velocities with good accuracy and no leading. Bullet fit and all else has to be perfect to do this.

Never tried coated bullets and won't criticize those who use them, but it appears that few, if any, of the serious cast bullets competitors use coated bullets. Looks like conventionally lubed bullets are more accurate and I know they can be shot without leading.

Cast bullets is a game unto itself and is riddled with "conventional wisdom" that is flawed but becomes gospel after decades, simply because it's difficult to prove or disprove many of the "rules". Cast bullets, in handguns anyway, can equal and often exceed the accuracy of jacketed bullets, but it can be a lot of very challenging work to get to that point.

 

[MichiganScott]

Jacketed bullets going down a bore fouled with lead will increase the pressure of the cartridge. If you have enough lead, you have the potential for something catastrophic.

 

[Electraclyde]

As already mentioned it is a combo of correct diameter, correct hardness, and powder/velocity. If all is correct there will be no leading.
There is a user on another form (a well known American manufacturer of revolvers/firearms) that has written a very good article about this. His forum name is Iowegen or something very close to that spelling. Spend some time to find and read it. It is very informative.

 

[Rpg]

Leading is a fact of life for shooters.

Get used to it and deal with it: clean the gun.

Only takes a few minutes.

Of course, not cleaning the lead out works fine too: the lead won't hurt anything and will have modest impact on accuracy, particularly in properly rifled barrels (those not rifled with Smith's new shallow chemical system).

 

[MJFlores]

Leading is a fact of life for shooters.

Get used to it and deal with it: clean the gun.

Only takes a few minutes.

Of course, not cleaning the lead out works fine too: the lead won't hurt anything and will have modest impact on accuracy, particularly in properly rifled barrels (those not rifled with Smith's new shallow chemical system).

I used to think this too until I made the switch to Berry's plated bullets. My life is MUCH happier now! I dont care if I never see a lead bullet for the rest of my life.

 

[susieqz]

guys, i don't understand leading. i'm new to centerfire.
is it true that slow lead bullets won't cause leading?
i don't reload, so please tell me how to avoid it in store bot 38spc?
i don't wanna hurt my 15-4.

 

[GypsmJim]

Leading is a fact of life for shooters.

Get used to it and deal with it: clean the gun.

Only takes a few minutes.

Of course, not cleaning the lead out works fine too: the lead won't hurt anything and will have modest impact on accuracy, particularly in properly rifled barrels (those not rifled with Smith's new shallow chemical system).

I started loading in 1971, using Speer wadcutters in a .38 spl. The leading was terrible. Someone told me to cast my own. My Dad had a supply of lead at the time, so that's what I did.

Been casting ever since, now up to 26 calibers. I cast lead for EVERYTHING, rifle and pistol. I have NEVER had any leading since.

Hard cast, 0.001 over, reasonable velocity, etc. (all the tips listed above) have always been my rule as well.

 

[Tom S.]

guys, i don't understand leading. i'm new to centerfire.
is it true that slow lead bullets won't cause leading?
i don't reload, so please tell me how to avoid it in store bot 38spc?
i don't wanna hurt my 15-4.

It's a roll of the dice. Leading/non leading depends on several things. Soft lead bullets will lead almost all of the time unless well lubed and shot at mild velocities. Hard lead bullets will lead if shot at pressures too low to cause the base to expand and seal to prevent expanding gases. Gas checked bullets, if hard and lubed should produce the least amount of leading, provided your rifling isn't rough. Any lead bullet can lead if the rifling is rough or pitted.

Some say that coated/plated lead bullets won't cause problems, but that depends on the plating and coating thickness and again velocities used.

 

[susieqz]

thank you, tom. i read what you said several times but i guess i'm doomed to never understand.
when i use up all the test ammo i bot, i'll stick to wad cutters n hope
that works.
i'll start cleaning the barrel more.

 

[MichiganScott]

thank you, tom. i read what you said several times but i guess i'm doomed to never understand.
when i use up all the test ammo i bot, i'll stick to wad cutters n hope
that works.
i'll start cleaning the barrel more.

Buy a Lewis Lead Remover from Brownell's. Anyone that shoots lead needs one. You will thank me later.

 

[just plain joe]

I second "MichiganScott". I load both lead and plated bullets for my .38 Special revolvers. I keep velocities low, i.e. less than 1000 fps with the lead bullets. However I have not been able to totally eliminate leading. I have used the Lewis Lead Remover with good results. I also use it with my .41 Magnum lead loads.

Lead bullets are cheaper but lead the barrel. Plated/jacketed bullets cost more, but there are no lead deposits.

TANSTAAFL.

JPJ

 

[susieqz]

thanks, guys. i'll get he lead remover.
i'm very fond of this gun.
at 25 yards, it's match quality.
s&w really knew what they were doing in 1980, so, i'll
do everything to care for this superb weapon.

 

[cowboy4evr]

Like was posted above , just a chunk of " Chore Boy " wrapped around your bore brush will remove any leading very quickly . ONLY use Chore Boy , it's a pure copper scouring pad . The after market types are steel with only a copper coating . Chore Boy is available at most Ace Hdwe stores and walmarts etc .
I can go into a long explanation of the reasons leading occurs and how to fix them . The cylinder throats , groove diameter of the barrel ( not the bore diameter as it is the smaller of the 2 ). Machine marks inside the barrel , tight spots where they roll stamped on the side of the barrel , the barrel to frame fit can be a tight spot , poor bullet lube , improper bullet size etc . All these things can and will cause leading .
I recommend you spend about $15 , buy Veral Smith's book @ LBT Molds called " Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets " . Veral is very very knowledgeable in this area and explains everything you will need to know and how to remedy them yourself . I shoot magnum hand guns from " mild to wild " with much success .

 

[desertratr]

Thanks for all the advice. Learned a lot in the past day. It was while cleaning the gun I noticed the leading. I've got a Chore Boy so this afternoon the lead will be gone.

I believe the problem is my bullets are too hard for my load. Meister hard cast is 14-16 BHN. My Speer manual lists industry pressure limit at 15.5 kpsi, so the optimum hardness would be about 12 BHN. However, I was loading light, 7.5 gr Unique. Speer lists start charge at 7.8 gr for Unique with speed of 1043 fps (I was getting just under 1000 fps). So I'll up the load and see what happens.