LEAD vs JACKETED (bullets) only the facts please

[Rule3]

Here are a few more. Google is your friend.

Lead Contaminates Handout

February, 97 Lead

Bare in mind a lot of this is INDOORS.

http://pow.actarg.com/pdf/NIOSH_76-130_Indoor_Range_Considerations.pdf

 

[Beemer-mark]

3) All lead residues are harmful and accumulative. i.e. you never get rid of what you have absorbed.

No, lead levels are not accumulative. The body excretes lead from the blood stream in a process called "chelation". The body does this naturally but certain chemicals will speed up the process.

 

[jepp2]

Since you have a strong concern regarding lead hazards, a great starting point would be for you to be tested for lead.

I was curious enough, I got tested recently. My result was 3 ppm, and I am sure it was mostly from the 5 years I worked pumping gas with TEL. I don't even have a family physician. I just ordered the blood test over the internet and went to a local lab to have them draw the blood. $49 total cost.

I load extensively, and my past practices especially when loading shot shells weren't the best.

I don't shoot at indoor ranges any more just because I enjoy the great outdoors much more.

I wear a proper dust respirator when cleaning primer pockets. I deprime and clean primer pockets prior to tumbling.

I have zero concerns handling and firing lead bullets. This includes both centerfire rounds and 22 rimfire. And clearly my 3 ppm result shows it isn't causing my any lead build up.

 

[ChuckS1]

Well, I'm going to take the contrarian position here and tell the OP all to run as fast as he can away from any lead boolits, wheel weights, pure lead or anything else to do with casting. Not only are you poisoning yourself, but the envirnoment and anyone within a 100 yards of you. This is something definitely to be avoided at all costs, unless you want to kill yourself, your children and your pets.

Leaves more for me...

 

[bbgun]

USING CAST BULLETS IS WHY ELMER KEITH DIED SO YOUNG.

 

[Harrison]

You may never shoot a cast boolet and you are in deadly danger from lead if you drink water that is obtained from a lake, stream or river. The EPA is so concerned about contamination of our water supply that they are seriously considering banning lead fishing sinkers, lead weights on seine nets, lead fishing jigs, lead paint on fishing lures, brass fishing accessories (brass is known by the State of California to contain lead and is hazardous), and anything else made of lead that may contact a lake, river or stream, or yea, this also applies to coastal waters.

Like the TSA, the EPA is your friendly government agency, that only exists to protect and help you.

 

[silvercn]

a mixed bag

Well, it appears that we have opinions and experience with a spattering of facts.
As much as I appreciate the feedback, I also roll my eyes at the few that vomited ignorance and insults.

But in the review of everyone's talking points, I am learning more and more every moment.
I am not yet convinced that lead is the way to go,
but I am considering it as a viable option.

I just wish that some of those posting would drop the attitude.
It is ugly and not making your point heard...
*******s are just seen as *******s...
and their point is lost.

Thanks to those that honestly tried to relay their reasons and rationale as to why they use lead.
I think that it might be worth a shot... but still curious...

Your experience and knowledge is appreciated...

 

[Paul5388]

The word "lead" when used in this standard means elemental lead, all inorganic lead compounds and a class of organic lead compounds called lead soaps. This standard does not apply to other organic lead compounds.

Tetra Ethyl Lead is an organic compound and wouldn't be covered in the OSHA regulation posted. Tetra Ethyl Lead was used as an octane booster in leaded gasoline. Elemental lead, i.e. cast bullets, is basically inert and isn't absorbed by the body. The real culprits are lead oxides, which were commonly used in lead based paints, i.e. red lead used on board ship as a primer, not leaded gasoline, bullets nor priming compounds.

The common treatment for heavy metal poisoning, whether lead, cadmium, iron, tin, zinc and etc. is intravenous solutions containing EDTA (Ethylene Diamine Tetra Acetic Acid) or the sodium salts of EDTA. Chelate is derived from Chele, a Greek word meaning claw or pincher and EDTA has two pairs of active acetic acid groups that function as chelates. To keep it from being too active, the disodium salt is used many times.

If one would really be concerned, a check of the MSDS for lead will reveal the stannous component (tin) is much more dangerous (higher LD50) than lead. Page 4 of this pdf with give you Hornady's MSDS on their bullets, but they don't mention tin. http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/msds/Bullets_MSDS.pdf

Here's Rotometal's MSDS that contains a tin component. https://www.rotometals.com/v/vspfiles/downloadables/MSDS_Tin_Antimony_Lead_Alloy.pdf The higher the LD50 the less it needs to be concerned with. At 790 mg/kg, lead's LD50 is much less than antimony or tin.

There may be more danger in using stannous floride in tooth paste than lead bullets.

 

[bmcgilvray]

The "mixed bag" has been an enjoyable read.

Much better to enjoy the inane cleverness mixed with the excellent and thoughtful replies than to suffer from a chip on one's shoulder.

 

[38-44HD45]

In a previous thread I learned that some ppl believed that lead bullets
were no more of a risk then jacketed bullets, (for reloading and target practice).

I would really like to see links regarding these issues.
Links that have really help you making your informed decision about what you shoot.

I don't want to hear the I've done it for 50 years and I am still here diatribe.
I know ppl that have used narcotics, smoked cigs, and drive fast (an they have no issues).
THATS NOT THE POINT! I want the facts not esoteric opinions!

I currently use jacketed bullets for my reloading hobby and practice ammo.
I see that lead (cast bullets) are much MUCH more affordable.
I just have concerns that I will compromise my health to save a buck.
I don't want to avoid cast bullets from my misdirected fear...
and I don't want to use cast bullets if I am ill-informed...
please help...

Can you give me facts &/or reasons in support of one or the other... ???
Thanks in advance...

I have not read all the posts above, but I must assume that by "dangerous," you are referring to lead exposure concerns. Here's what I know: First, if all you are talking about is handling the bullets, the amount of lead that you can absorb from such handling is so minuscule as to be nonexistent for all practical purposes. Handling spent primers or inhaling the dust from removal of cases from vibratory or rotatory case polishers will expose you to MUCH more absorbable lead than will handling lead bullets. Use latex gloves if you are concerned, and there will be ZERO hazard in handling lead bullets.

As to exposure to airborne particulate lead, unless you are on a poorly ventilated indoor range, again, there is no danger. Outdoors, you simply cannot inhale enough to measure.

A number of years ago, we had some regular shooters at an indoor range hosting IPSC matches who got their blood lead levels checked. The ventilation at the range was good, but not great, and lots of the shooters used lead bullets. I shot indoor matches there a few times, and went away with a sweet taste in my mouth and blowing black snot out of my nose. The ONLY shooters who had elevated blood lead levels were ones who reloaded and smoked at the same time. They handled lots of primer residue, then handled cigarettes which went into their mouths.

It is primer residue, not lead bullets, about which you should be concerned, even though there is slightly more airborne lead from shooting cast bullets than from jacketed. Of course, if you are shooting FMJ bullets with an exposed lead base, you'll toss out as much lead or more than you will with cast bullets.

If you are talking about casting lead bullets, other concerns arise, and I've known a few bullet casters who developed serious health problems from inhaling lead "fumes" from poorly ventilated casting areas.


Wow! I just went back and read a few of the previous posts. Am now trying to figure out why the attitudes...

 

[Skip Sackett]

I bow to your literary ability, dear friend!

The "mixed bag" has been an enjoyable read.

Much better to enjoy the inane cleverness mixed with the excellent and thoughtful replies than to suffer from a chip on one's shoulder.

Having lost a point or two in my life because of being a tad on the instigating side and doing a good examination of the supposed offending body part, I don't think there are supposed to be points there. If there are points there, someone has a problem!

All levity aside, if we would have known that he was such a sensitive individual, I for one wouldn't have teased him at all!

I thought that good "banter" now and then added to the interaction on these kinds of forums. My bad.

'Course there always is the ignore option! I try to never use it though and for clarification, re-read my opening comment in this post!

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[JohnnieB]

I think one of greatest exposures is the media used for tumbling and cleaning brass. I read about folks who claim never to change it or use it for years! There is such a high concentration of crap in there, change it often. It's so cheap why not??

IMHO, not only used tumbling media is a major source of lead exposure, the entire tumbling process is.

Some may think it's an overkill, but I thoroughly wash my fired brass before I tumble or deprime it.

John

 

[Ed333]

... Use latex gloves if you are concerned, and there will be ZERO hazard in handling lead bullets.
Agreed.

As to exposure to airborne particulate lead, unless you are on a poorly ventilated indoor range, again, there is no danger. Outdoors, you simply cannot inhale enough to measure.

Don't quite agree here... I don't reload, but I do act as Range officer at Club falling plate matches, outdoor range, but not a lot of air movement. I have elevated levels, running 17-23 range, I get checked every 6 months. No other source i can think of, just the primer compounds and vapor from lead-based (not fully jacketed) bullets. Just my experience...

 

[silvercn]

SKIP-Born Again John 17:17
I removed my rude comment because,
it was just uncalled for.
Skip is a decent guy.
=========================

Thanks I think this feedback and input is really knocking my misunderstood fear of lead bullets.
Not that they are harmless, but that with minor precautions, they are safe and affordable...

After I work through my 1000 jacketed bullets
($109 from tjconevera.com w/ free shipping)
I will order up some casted bullets...

Thanks for all the feedback and info!!!

 

[Skip Sackett]

(there may be hope)
=======================================[/B]

Not that they are harmless, but that with minor precautions, they are safe and affordable...

After I work through my 1000 jacketed bullets
($109 from tjconevera.com w/ free shipping)
I will order up some casted bullets...

Thanks for all the feedback and info!!!

Sometimes the methods are a bit questionable. Never sinful, just a bit odd for some folks.

If you need some bullets to start with, just let me know. I'll make up a care package and send you some! Free of charge, not even any shipping!

What caliber and weight? Be glad to help!

p.s. Sorry to have offended you.

 

[silvercn]

Sometimes the methods are a bit questionable. Never sinful, just a bit odd for some folks.

If you need some bullets to start with, just let me know. I'll make up a care package and send you some! Free of charge, not even any shipping!

What caliber and weight? Be glad to help!

p.s. Sorry to have offended you.

I am humbled... I have new respect for you!
I did learn alot about casted bullets and am glad I asked.
I was really under the impression that it was hamful.
The combined knowledge of the group (skip included) was helpful.

I very much appreciate your offer and am very tempted to accept free bullets.
However, I believe it was the thought that ment the most.
So thank you for the offer... your a gentlmen!

 

[Skip Sackett]

Well, something we agree on! My gentlemanship! (Just kidding!)

At any rate and others can attest to this too, I have sent my bullets around free of charge before. Sending them to you would not be a burden.

I cannot over stress to be careful if you are going to shoot exclusively indoors. If you come away from the range with a sweet taste in your mouth and haven't done anything but shoot, you most likely have breathed in a little lead "dust", for lack of a better term.

Wash, don't eat, drink or smoke, and use rubber gloves when handling media when dealing with reloading or lead bullets.

All good advice.

 

[Rule3]

I can attest to the fact that Skip makes some fine bullets and has generously shared not only his craftsmanship but also his knowledge with not only me but many other members of this forum.

I have learned a great deal from him (and others here) and feel it got me off to the right start in reloading. Of all things, he stresses safety and following the rules or recipes if you will. Making any change in the recipe will result in totally different results.

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

 

[BreakerDan]

One thing to remember is that unless you buy totally jacketed bullets
you will be exposed to lead anyway. Soft points and hollowpoints
have exposed lead. Most full metal jacket actually has lead exposed
at the rear-where the lead will be heated by the powder charge and
might cause lead vapors.

Honestly, until a year or so ago I never heard of anyone worrying
about this issue. If it is an issue for you then I would recommend
shooting outside and wear latex gloves.

Lead really won't be absorbed much by the skin, it is what you
might inhale that might count. Just my two cents.

 

[silvercn]

I am so glad I posted this thread.
I have gone from fear to reality!

I am pretty convinced that lead bullets are not a real concern.
I am suprise about my conculsion and realization.
Use caution and safety and lead is just a metal.

As much as I have resited Skip and his free bullets offer...
He has over whelmed me with humility and, ummm... niceness!

Thank you Skip........