LEAD vs JACKETED (bullets) only the facts please

[augy]

No, lead levels are not accumulative. The body excretes lead from the blood stream in a process called "chelation". The body does this naturally but certain chemicals will speed up the process.

Here is a narrative taken from "Healthy Homes Collaborative Magazine " article on lead.

Is there treatment for lead poisoning?

There is chelation (pronounced key-la-tion) therapy, which is dangerous and generally reserved for cases of high level lead poisoning in order to rapidly lower the blood lead level. Chelation removes lead and other minerals from the blood, but it may also stimulate lead that has been stored in the bones to be released into the bloodstream, which can actually increase the level of lead in the blood. Chelation can also remove important minerals from the blood, which can be fatal.

Can the damage from lead poisoning be reversed?

Lead poisoning is essentially a permanent condition, which involves quasi-permanent damage in that little or no recovery occurs. It is generally accepted that the cognitive damage from lead poisoning is irreversible. Lead is also known to reduce recovery from all types of brain damage. Currently, the only viable "treatment" is to prevent lead exposure by removing the lead source.

augy

 

[Paul5388]

I don't know about Healthy Homes, but the medical dictionaries certainly don't support their statements.

Treatment
When heavy metal poisoning is suspected, it is important to begin treatment as soon as possible to minimize long-term damage to the patient's nervous system and digestive tract. Heavy metal poisoning is considered a medical emergency, and the patient should be taken to a hospital emergency room.
The treatment for most heavy metal poisoning is chelation therapy. A chelating agent specific to the metal involved is given either orally, intramuscularly, or intravenously. The three most common chelating agents are calcium disodium edetate, dimercaprol (BAL), and penicillamine. The chelating agent encircles and binds to the metal in the body's tissues, forming a complex; that complex is then released from the tissue to travel in the bloodstream. The complex is filtered out of the blood by the kidneys and excreted in the urine. This process may be lengthy and painful, and typically requires hospitalization. Chelation therapy is effective in treating lead, mercury, and arsenic poisoning, but is not useful in treating cadmium poisoning.

heavy metal poisoning - definition of heavy metal poisoning in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

 

[rodell]

Another alternative is the plated bullet. I shoot a lot indoors, and plated or jacketed bullets are required. I have no issues plinking with Berry's or Rainier Ballistics' offerings.

Even mildly elevated levels of lead are a problem for children and expectant mothers. Other than those special considerations, simple precautions are called for.

We know a lot more about heavy metal poisoning than we used to. The thought of cleaning my firearms while wearing nitrile gloves never would have occurred to me 35 years ago, nor would have Lyme disease.

We are constantly learning. I suggest one take the precautions they are most comfortable with - from full avoidance to no care at all.

 

[flash60601]

Through the length of this thread, slight mention was made of the dust of tumbling cases to clean them, and only one person mentioned washing the cases before tumbling them (which seems to be a good idea).

May I share a tip?
I have found that putting a (used) dryer tissue like "Bounce" into the tumbler with the cases seems to trap most of this crud, keeping it from becoming airborne when emptying the tumbler and shaking out the cases.

Flash

 

[Paul5388]

I rarely tumble anything. In 40+ years of reloading, I have found no real benefit to tumbling. That's providing you take care of your brass and don't roll it around in the dirt. It's harder to accomplish with bottom feeders, but a tarp goes a long way toward keeping things clean.

BTW, that's a new R-P factory load compared to the Norma that is about 40 years old.

 

[silvercn]

off to the dollar store I go.... dryer sheets on my list!


FYI(SKIP) ~ bullets recieved...
in a plastic baggie (zip locked)
wrapped in tin foil... with rubber gloves...
and my trusty bible pamphlet!
I am set now! SAFE AND SOUND!!!

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!
I will load them up this weekend.

 

[Rule3]

off to the dollar store I go.... dryer sheets on my list!


FYI(SKIP) ~ bullets recieved...
in a plastic baggie (zip locked)
wrapped in tin foil... with rubber gloves...
and my trusty bible pamphlet!
I am set now! SAFE AND SOUND!!!

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!
I will load them up this weekend.

Don't forget to use only USED dryer sheets that have been through the dryer. If not you will get nasty sticky stuff all over your brass.(don't ask how I know this)

Don't forget to practice safe reloading

 

[Skip Sackett]

ROFL!

 

[M29since14]

Interesting discussion. The fact that people have lived long lives with bullets in their bodies that were never surgically removed seems to prove that metallic lead is not much of a danger to humans, but rather the various compounds - specifically the oxides.

I have always wondered if shotgunners are at any more risk than handgunners? Shotgunning is an outdoor sport of course, but on a hot summer day with no breeze blowing (or worse, one blowing into your face), with five shooters banging away at a fairly rapid rate, in a fairly defined area, sometimes the air can get pretty stagnant around the skeet or trap range. The type of projectiles might put one at a little more or less risk, too. Most of the discussions of this type seem to deal with handgun shooting.

I guess I never worried enough to get tested.

 

[Rule3]

Interesting discussion. The fact that people have lived long lives with bullets in their bodies that were never surgically removed seems to prove that metallic lead is not much of a danger to humans, but rather the various compounds - specifically the oxides.

That's not entirely correct. Yes they live with a solid chunk of lead in their bodies. But that is not the same as absorbing lead dust into your lungs or ingesting lead which then enter the blood stream and then build up in the bodies tissues. Despite the whole chelation thing, heavy metals are stored in the bodies fat. Basically the same as Mercury poisoning. It builds up in the fish on the top of the food chain and then into humans when they eat the swordfish, salmon or what ever. Better to eat the little fishys.

 

[Paul5388]

Ingesting lead will just make a very dense spot in what is disposed of by the body as it passed through the digestive system. Elemental lead is basically inert and isn't any different than a bullet lodged in the body somewhere. Dust is not a common issue with the shooting sports, but lead residue from primers may be. Of course, it's always possible to look at the MSDS for lead styphnate, but the LD50 is the important number to look at. Duo-Fast has one of the MSDS, being maybe a subsidiary of Olin. It may be that more exposure to lead comes from .22 blanks used in the construction industry than the shooting sports.

 

[Hook686]

I note California is banning lead shot and lead bullets in Condor areas. If it is not healthy for the CAlifornia Condor I doubt it is healthy for California humans.

 

[Paul5388]

A Condor is still a bird, even though it's certainly an ugly one. As such, it has a need for rocks to help it masticate its food. The rocks are what crushes the lead to make a powder that is toxic. People usually don't need more than plastic teeth to help eat their food and they certainly don't eat rocks to help out.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

California also passes a lot of other stupid and sometimes harmful (to both humans and animals alike) laws, so that isn't really a good example to use.
There has been a lot of good info posted in this thread.

Main lesson-
use common sense and a little precaution/protection when handling lead, or in an area where lead fumes/dust are present, and it's highly unlikely that anyone will ever have a problem.
There are just too many other things that the govenrment allows to be put into our food and medications that we need to be aware of, to be concerned with lead poisoning from handling or shooting lead bullets.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Being a TRUE Californian, yes, I was born there, some of these stupid laws are the reason I don't live there! One of the most dangerous ones being their refusal to honor my right to carry a concealed handgun. What is more dangerous than that?

No, The Republic of Kalifornya is no place to hold up as a good representation of a laws.

Nice coast line, no doubt about that though. Lots of celebrities. Beautiful weather in the southern part, nice trees in the northern but for crying out loud, I can't even get the kids a happy meal in San Fran now, at least not one that has a toy! Legislation gone a muck!

 

[Wayne M]

Ok, I won't mention I'm 62, have been shooting lead and loading it for 44 years without gloves and am in perfect health. I can only say, with facts, that there are VERY few things in this old universe that there are MORE of every day but lead happens to be one of them. Don't try to make jawbreakers out of cast bullets, if you shoot inside make sure you're well ventilated(the range, that is), avoid being shot and don't automatically believe everything you hear on the environmentalist left. You'll be fine.

 

[silvercn]

This is just like my reloading suit...
Did you get yours at JC Pennys Outdoor Store, too?

 

[laney566]

The only lead poisoning I am concerned with is caused by hi speed insertion below the epidermis.

 

[Rule3]

This is just like my reloading suit...
Did you get yours at JC Pennys Outdoor Store, too?

Heck no!. I only buy top of the Line Equipment. I didn't like the color of the Dillon so I got this at LL Bean. Free shipping.!

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Don't sniff it, lick it, taste it, eat it, smoke near it, play with it or touch it more than necessary (and wash your hands really well afterwards).

[This advice can also be used for teens on prom night]

Sound advice in many areas of life outside the sphere of reloading/shooting
We used to play with the mercury in the thermometers when we were little. I guess that's not a good thing either
I would think that as long as you are shooting outside there would be no problem. Inside a poorly vented range or castinf lead is where I would see issues.