Learn from My Mistake on Lee Rings

[ggibson511960]

I use a Forster press almost exclusively with several brands of dies. I don't do much heavy resizing or forming to avoid cleaning up case lube. Neck sizing with collet or carbide dies is my preferred way. I was getting into the 300 Savage business by reforming .308 Win brass with a set of Lee dies. I don't expect to shoot much 300 Savage, so I went with cheaper Lee dies.

I found the weak link in my plan. Lee dies use soft aluminum lock rings weakened by an O-ring in a cut-out instead of a grub screw, reducing the thread engagement to about 2-1/2 threads. Those of you with Forster Coax presses know their recommendation to use only Forster rings. Now I know why. A Forster press reacts die forces with the lock ring, not the threads on the die body. About halfway through forming 50 cases the lock ring let go, shearing off its threads. The die pulled out of the press with a partially reformed case firmly stuck in it. I was fuming about cheap Lee products till I remembered Forster's admonition.

Lee dies mostly work fine and have their advantages, but I found a weak link. Heavy reforming and resizing in a Forster Coax press with Lee dies is a no-no. I got away with it for years until I didn't. Fortunately my LGS had plenty of steel lock rings for sale. The helpful clerk shared that lots of his customers buy Lee dies, but immediately throw away their rings for steel rings from RCBS. Live and learn.

 

[Alk8944]

Remember the admonition "When all else fails read the instructions"?

 

[MLS2GO]

I use a Lee Sizing die for 38 Short Colt and I reload in a Dillon 550. The Lee Ring lapped over onto the press itself and I had to change it to a Dillon Ring that does not go past the side of the toolhead.

 

[stansdds]

Remember the admonition "When all else fails read the instructions"?

EEK! That's what my junior high school English grammar teacher always said. Bad flashback! Bad flashback!

 

[Warren Sear]

I have never had any LEE rings fail on me, but I replace them with set-screw type steel rings simply because they position more consistently and do not easily go out of adjustment like the LEE rings do.

I don't understand how aluminum rings can fail though. It is the steel threads of the die body that carry the stress.

 

[old tanker]

I have never had any LEE rings fail on me, but I replace them with set-screw type steel rings simply because they position more consistently and do not easily go out of adjustment like the LEE rings do.

I don't understand how aluminum rings can fail though. It is the steel threads of the die body that carry the stress.

Not on a Forster Co Ax press. Dies do not thread into the press.

 

[rockquarry]

Lee lock rings aside, I'd never use my Co-Ax press for heavy case forming. I much prefer a strong heavy duty single stage like an RCBS Big Max or Redding Ultra Mag. I'm a longtime Co-Ax advocate and have used a Co-Ax for most rifle cartridge work for forty or so years, but there are some chores that are better done on other presses.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

LEE has a line of "New!" and IMHO much improved lock rings (and that actually lock!) on their dies now, but the Hornady ones are the Best (also IMHO) because they are steel & the locking screw does not contact the threads of the die.

Cheers!

P.S. What DO the threads on the die screw into on a Foster press?

 

[TheTinMan]

LEE has a line of "New!" and IMHO much improved lock rings (and that actually lock!) on their dies now, but the Hornady ones are the Best (also IMHO) because they are steel & the locking screw does not contact the threads of the die.

Cheers!

P.S. What DO the threads on the die screw into on a Foster press?

They screw into the lock ring. Then the lock ring slips into grooves in the press. That way the die floats a bit, in theory improving concentricity.

I buy Forster lock rings to replace virtually everything except Lyman rings - those are GTG for me.

 

[rwsmith]

Yes....

Remember the admonition "When all else fails read the instructions"?

Lee dies have a different set-up than most makes of dies. Ask me how I know.

 

[6string]

Here’s a close-up of the Forster Co-Ax press showing how the dies slip into place.
The die ring is basically the interface between the die and the press.

 

[gwpercle]

Yes you are correct ... Lee Dies are not the best for Forming , but they were never made to form brass ...
CH4D sells some good forming dies and are woth every penny .
Hint ... STP Oil Treatment can be used as a good heavy-duty case lube .
It's thick and slick and must be wiped off cases but it will get the job done !
Gary

 

[TAROMAN]

I use Lee dies almost exclusively.
That said, their rings go straight into the trash and are replaced by Dillon hex rings.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

I'm somewhat amazed that "floating" dies add any precision to reloading...?

But, since I have no experience with the Co-Ax press I leave it for others to comment.

Please!

Cheers!

 

[Just another 22 shooter]

I have used Lee dies in my Co-Ax press. I will do that no more. I actually prefer Hornady Lock rings for that press.

 

[rwsmith]

Surely not....

REAL dies have positive locking rings. But for inexpensive reloading Lees are a great alternative. I have both RCBS and Lees. When I started accumulating calibers that I didn't shoot so often or to reload for friends, I go with Lees

Also, nowadays, more and more. my first search is in the used market.

Anyway, I've never had problem with properly set up Lee dies.

 

[AJ]

Yes you are correct ... Lee Dies are not the best for Forming , but they were never made to form brass ...
CH4D sells some good forming dies and are woth every penny .
Hint ... STP Oil Treatment can be used as a good heavy-duty case lube .
It's thick and slick and must be wiped off cases but it will get the job done !
Gary

Used STP on my lube pad back in the day when I used steel dies in my 310 Tool and then my Lyman Spar-T press. Yes, it was a PIA to clean it off!

 

[leadhead2]

I use Bag Balm to lube my brass. It has lanolin in it and is very good for
your hands. It's used on cows teats when they get sore from milking.
A can of it should last you many years.

 

[mikld]

I have used Lee dies w/Lee rings in my Co-Ax for about 25 years. Of course I don't do any heavy sizing on my Co-Ax. The only thing I don't like about the Lee dies/rings is the rings are thinner than others and sloppier in the die slot of the press. Liking a "better fit" I often buy Foster rings.

 

[ggibson511960]

Totally Agree

Lee lock rings aside, I'd never use my Co-Ax press for heavy case forming. I much prefer a strong heavy duty single stage like an RCBS Big Max or Redding Ultra Mag. I'm a longtime Co-Ax advocate and have used a Co-Ax for most rifle cartridge work for forty or so years, but there are some chores that are better done on other presses.

How I fell into this mishap was what pilots call the "normalization of deviation". I like to try new calibers and new stuff in reloading. I too deferred heavy reforming work to an old "C" press, but the new case lubes enticed me to try reforming .308 Win to 300 Sav on my Coax. I did some full length resizing of 8x57 Mauser using first Lee white case lube, then Hornady. I was surprised at how easy it was, and easy case cleanup was a bonus. Progress with new case lube.

I pushed my luck to try resizing .308 Win to 300 Sav with the new lube. I was pleasantly surprised at the low effort, not nearly enough to make me think I was overstressing the Coax press. Reforming .308 to 300 Sav is not a big deal, only setting back the shoulder 0.032 in., but I was fatigue stressing those meager 2-1/2 threads in the Lee die. When I got the busted stuff sorted out I checked a few of the reformed .308 cases and sure enough they didn't have their shoulders set back far enough, even though the die was set up correctly, at least at first. The threads were deflecting more on every stoke. Another interesting tidbit is that the Lee lock ring failed when pulling out the reformed case, not the much heavier forming stroke. That last deformation of the threads pushed it over the fatigue limit.

Lee should put a warning that their dies are NOT for use in coaxial type presses like Forster's