Learned something about snakebite

[RobertJ.]

Are you sure about the snakes? One variant of the Prairie Rattler is named oreganus as a subspecies, as I recall. That probably refers to its presence there. Perhaps not quite where you live in Oregon, though.

Oregon does have rattlers, just not here on the coast. In fact, I recently gave my sister a small box filled with rattles I collected when I lived in Eastern Oregon.

 

[ol' geeser]

Here on my Place the wife and I kill several Diamond Back water snakes over 40" every year.

We have shot several of them with a pretty good sized Catfish in their mouth...

Those are non-poisonious snakes...scare the dickens out of ya but they're sorta like water kingsnakes or "coachwhips"...they dispose of lots of vermin and are a good thing to have around

 

[A10]

*
Yeah, until you evade immigration control and end up on the good side of MP 52. Then we see clowns out walking in the weeds at Winchester Wasteway and Sprague, unaware of the risks ....

They are just testing Darwinian theory..... I'd bet money they go around picking up old boards/signs/siding just to see what's under it!

I spent my formative years in Wenatchee....my visa is still valid.

 

[Texas Star]

Oregon does have rattlers, just not here on the coast. In fact, I recently gave my sister a small box filled with rattles I collected when I lived in Eastern Oregon.

The Northern Pacific Rattlesnake does include much of Oregon in its range. (Crotalus viridus oreganus)

I grabbed, "US Guide to Venomous Snakes and their Mimics", by Scott Shupe from the bookcase and he cited the range as encompassing eastern Washington, parts of Idaho, and the northern two-thirds of California as well as much of Oregon.

Although I cannot determine the degree of toxicity as readily as I can that for the Southern subspecies, Helleri, it must be aassumed that it is a dangerous snake.

The Southern Pacific rattler has been known to cause a sharp drop in blood platelets and other grave systemic symptoms and is one of the more dangerous varieties in southern California. It can also hybridize with the very virulent Mojave rattler, perhaps the most deadly snake in North America.

If you saw the old ,Animal Planet series featuring Dr. Sean Bush treating snakebites in California, many of his patients were envenomated by the Helleri subspecies, and some barely dodged death. I feel sure that had they had a doctor less skilled in the specialization of dealing with snakebite as Dr. Bush, they wolud have died.

Be careful up there, and be glad that you don't have as many rattler species and numbers as we do in Texas. Apart from some rather obscure ones, we have both the Eastern and Western Diamondbacks and the dreaded Mojave version. Not to mention copperheads, water moccaasins, and coral snakes...

 

[m75rlg]

Whoa! I've been bitten by copperhead (twice) and rec'd zero antivenom.

Copperheads are venomous snakes, but rarely deadly to able-bodied folks. . . . .

My experience also. Been bit one time back in 1982. Didn't see the snake or feel the bite, but it was in an area frequented by coperheads and other non-venomous snakes historically. (Been owned by my family for 75 years.)

Was puting up a fence through a honey-suckle covered area, and on several occasions knelt down to work on the botttom wires. Finished, went in the house and took a shower, and noticed two puncture wounds on the side of my knee. Pointed them out to my wife, and said that it looked like a snake bite. Left home, drove about 30 minutes to my college and sat in a 3 hour class for about an hour and a half. Went to stand up and my knee didn't want to work. Looked down, and it looked like a soccer ball was in my blue jeans where my knee should have been. After class, I drove home and stopped by my sisters house. She was an ER nurse at the time. Told her I'd been snake bit several hours earlier, and she looked and said it was too late to do anything now. She said that if I went to the ER they would just watch me for several hours to make sure I didn't have any more severe reactions.

Pain wasn't all that bad. It took about a week for the swelling and stiffiness to work out, but no other damage. I didn't feel the bite at all. However those red wasps I stirred up that same afternoon --I knew as soon as they hit me that I'd been stung. Those are some hot buggers!

 

[jkc]

Good information here. I knew a man years ago in Texas who claimed he could smell rattlesnakes. His workmates "pooh-poohed" him until he smelled and found them several times over to prove it.

I too have occasionally smelled rattlesnakes that I hadn't seen. The scent is unpleasant, not as acrid as skunk scent, nor so foul as that from garter or hognosed snakes that I handled as a kid. Here's what Klauber has to say, from Rattlesnakes, the still definitive natural history reference:

"Some items in the rattler's defense arsenal are used rarely and are not a part of the customary defense posture. Most snakes are equipped with a pair of musk or scent glands in the tail. The purpose of the glands is not known with certainty, and the use may differ in different kinds of snakes, although from the exceedingly offensive odor of the discharge in many genera and the fact that they are excreted when the snakes are handled, it may be assumed that they comprise a defense mechanism."

I have not only smelled, but seen the fairly forceful discharge of this musk, while handling decapitated but still-living Western Diamondbacks, c. atrox. The smell is pungent, unpleasant, and not quite like any other odor in my repetoire of olfactory experience. My advice is bifurcated, like snakes' tongues --- skin snakes outdoors, not on the kitchen counter, and very literally, watch your step if you're close enough to smell them...

 

[Oldiron]

M75rig,
Have been bitten twice, once I knew about and one I didn't know about until later. When I was a kid we were swimming in the "Baptising hole" in the creek and one followed me from the culvert out. Luckily snakes aren't real fast at striking under water. Wound up with two cuts across my knee where the fangs went. No problem from that one. The second one I was removing some construction trash when I was building the upstairs of my house. Got this large numb area on my side. While I was showering I noticed two red dots on my side and a large red area. Figured that after that long it wasn't going to kill me so I just put up with the numbness for a few days and it went away. Snakes I can avoid but red wasps and yellow jackets will send me to the Doc in short order. Was forty years old when I developed an allergy to the stings.
Larry

 

[COL Jagdog]

In 1990, I attended "snake school" as part of training at Ft Narai in Lopburi, Thailand, joint training exercise -- we sat in bleachers as Thai troops brought out various snakes and taught us -- I had read an issued field guide on kraits, cobras and similar SE Asia species --
but nothing prepares you for the first king cobra that you see --
they pull this 12 ft king cobra out of a secured box, lay it on the ground, and it reared up with perhaps 6-7 ft still on the ground in a loose coil, and about 5-6 ft of cobra swaying in an almost vertical stance -- made a deep impression on me.

My first jump (we went thru their jump school) -- I almost landed on a snake -- we were jumping MC-1's, I had turned into the wind for final 200 ft and readying for PLF, when I saw a snake on the DZ as I was prepping for landing -- I grabbed the risers, dumped a little air and somehow avoided the snake or he avoided me -- have no clue what kind it was -- have never forgotten that .

 

[DeadAye]

My buddy Wally (our *mushroom expert*) and I went fishing on Lake Wapanocca several years back. We wanted to rent a boat - The boat rental guy had a bunch of boats turned upside down at the lake's edge.
We gave him our money and headed for the boats.
He said, "Wait till my son gets back in a few minutes and he'll get you a boat."
I told him - "Don't bother him, we can get a boat ourselves."
He said, "You might want to wait for him - He has snake boots on and you don't".
I'll bet there were at least 6 Cotton Mouths under the boat he flipped over.
A bit later one fell out of a tree right into the boat with us.
I guess the aluminum boat was too hot cause he left straight away.
Fun day on the lake

I was Crappie fishing with a friend that stutters when he's nervous or excited. Ben somehow got his line around a tree on my end of the boat and his lure stuck to the tree. I could just see the lure and was reaching for it when I heard; "Bi Bi Bi Bi"
I looked at Ben and said "Calm down - What?"
"BIG SNAKE - Right By Your Hand!"
Another Moccasin - A quick flip with a paddle and he flew maybe 20 feet, hit the water and headed right back at me. Poor old snake didn't make it

 

[Evil Dog]

Mojave Desert..... carry a 12 gauge.

 

[chud333]

Used to hunt Copperheads with BB guns as kids in South Carolina
while dad was stationed at Marine Corp base. Did'nt know how
silly it was at the time. Shot quite a few in a pine thicket just off
base between myself, brother, and best friend. Nobody ever got
bit. God looks after idiots i guess.


chuck

 

[williamlayton]

I never met a dead snake I didn't like.
Blessings

 

[handejector]

Copperheads are venomous snakes, but rarely deadly to able-bodied folks.

That's good to know!

I still hate 'em, though. Too many close calls. In my experience, they don't run- they lie still and count on their camo. I've been literally within inches of them before I knew it.
One finally hit my ankle many years ago when I was minding my own business. I had on 6" boots, and it hit just above the hem of my jeans, and the boot stopped it. BUT, its fang hung in my jeans. I invented several dances in the next two seconds. We parted ways moving rapidly in opposite directions. I stopped shortly and shucked the boot and a heavy sock to make sure I wasn't punctured or scratched. Venom was running down my boot....

Sorry, you herp-lovers, cuddle them all you want, but if I see a copperhead and have the means, he dies.

 

[rburg]

once you smell it you'll never forget it....the madder they get the more they smell...

I'm guessing all this talk about anal glands and them smelling is nothing compared to the similar reaction I'd be having. Or my "discharge" could be viewed as rocket boost helping my getaway.

About 15 years ago we were in Utah, out in the Cisco desert aka the poison strip. A big ole mine, probably vanadium but maybe uranium. One of our party of jeepers came running out of the mine, with a rattlesnake chasing him! I was far enough away I could laugh about it (but not ID the snake). It lunged at the poor guy at least 4 or 5 times out of the mine, probably more inside. Then the 110+ heat registered and it turned and went back inside. We didn't explore the mine again.

Out in the rural areas, both west and here in KY, we have a SOP. If you're driving along and see a snake in the road sunning itself, you aim for it and then jam the brakes. Seems more effective if the wheels are locked up as you skid over it. Tends to smear the snake along over maybe 10 feet. 10" wide tires seem to remove that much of the critters body as you pass over it. I guess just driving over it would crush that much, but it just feels better to smear the snake along the road.

In my years, I've found a shovel works real well on not just snakes, but also on things like possum. I'm thinkin' Lee's 12 gauge is overkill, but maybe it just feels better to see the first foot of the snake evaporate in pink mist.

 

[chud333]

Lee, You are correct. The Copperhead will seldom, "make a run for it",
it just stays motionless relying on its natural camoflauge. I too have been within feet of those things and not realized it. They are'nt aggressive either, which is a good thing. You just about have to step on one to get bit.


chuck

 

[MK]

I had no idea that snake juice was that high.. I was thinking
around the $2000 range..
This info will make me even more paranoid when I'm prowling
the woods, etc.. I already wear boots and plastic snake protectors
when I'm anywhere snakes can hide. I never mow without those
things on, in case any are hiding in the tall grass.
I know my place has rattlers, copperheads, and moccasins down
at the lake. But so far, I've been lucky and haven't had any problem
since I bought that OK property in 07.. But I know they are there
lurking somewhere. I'll run across one, one of these days. A copperhead
would probably be the most likely, but there are rattlers around too.
I've seen several non poisonous already, but I don't mess with them, if
they don't mess with me.
But poisonous, I'm with Lee on those.. They are toast unless they
can run away fast enough to avoid being shot. I won't let them go as
I don't want to run into them a second time.
I'm really careful picking up wood, or anything close to the ground.
I've got a big pile of logs, tree branches, piled up that's been there a
couple of years. I bet there are a few snakes living in it by now..
I'm gonna start burning some of that stuff when I get the chance.
I'll probably take a big rake or something to pull the wood apart to
make sure no varmints are lurking before I pick it up.

Hate water moccasins worst of all I think.. I've had them hanging off
fish baskets I've pulled out of the water, and we had one climb into
our boat one night on Pomona Lake in KS.. Talk about some quick
paddle flipping..
I hear they are pretty plentiful on Lake Eufaula if you go to the right
spots. They like the quiet coves with lots of trees, branches, etc..
You never want to run a boat under low tree branches along the shore.

 

[J.Wal]

My dog killed a copper head in the yard this last summer. It bit him, but he killed it. I found him after the event because the blood on his face was dry.

His nose swelled up, but that was it. I called my vet ( I have his cell) and he said as long as he was not having a hard time breathing through his nose he would be fine.

This is the size of his nose on a normal day.

J.Wal

 

[cass]

I learned a couple of interesting things about snakebite yesterday -- was out at the farm (Lacassine area, about 18 miles east of Lake Charles, just north of a major wildlife reserve) -- finished cutting grass and was walking by our pond
with one of our English Setters, Dram -- we have had a lot of rain this spring, so the ditches, ponds, marshes, etc are full as well as the crawfish ponds (flooded rice fields in the area), so lots of snakes around .Usually the only place I encounter water moccasins is in the marsh and I have had to kill a few over the years, including a 5-footer that was in the yard of our duck camp. I can usually smell them if they are over a few feet long (I know that sounds strange, but they have a dank and disagreeable odor that you can smell if close to one) -- I apparently walked right by the moccasin (in some high grass by the pond edge and it struck Dram near the shoulder who yelped. Ran to the barn, put Dram in his crate in the truck, got a heavy duty rake, and was able to find the snake and kill it -- positive ID as moccasin. Rushed to vet -- shave area at bite site -- no swelling, or any other sequelae after several hours (usually there is rapid swelling as the venom is primarily hemotoxic/mucotoxic) -- Found out that snakebites do not always produce envenomation and with water moccasins only about 50% of bites result in envenomation -- (apparently defensive strikes) -- also found out that anitvenin supplies are low and very very expensive -- antivenin serum treatment may run into many thousands of dollars. Thought came to mind that if you spend a lot of time outdoors (as I do), check around and find out what medical facilities in your area keep antivenin in stock -- it may come in handy to know that in advance one day. Dram is fine and I am very relieved.
A doctor friend I talked to yesterday told me that the snake must have known that I was a lawyer and did not bite me as a professonal courtesy -- about the only humor in what was
an eventful and worried afternoon.

Very good advice. Also, it is important that your Doctor have you tested for allergic reactions to the available anti-venoms. When I hired on as a Herpetologist at the Ft. Worth Zoo, that's the first thing they did. As it turned out, I was allergic, and if it had been administered after a bite, the anti-venom reaction would have been much worse than the bite. At that time, ice and localized electric shock were the only options available to me. Also, the musky smell of a Cottonmouth is the same as the Copperhead (They're different sub-species of the Agkistrodon family. The musk smell of the non-posinous water snakes have a different smell - I really don't find the smell too offensive, but I'm very used to it.

 

[joeintexas]

Wonder why it costs so Much???
Ever try milkin' a snake???
Takes a mighty small stool to begin with then......



chuck

And tiny strokes too! I am surprised Ray Stevens never recorded a song about that..."I'm a SnakeMilker"

 

[FTG-05]

My dog killed a copper head in the yard this last summer. It bit him, but he killed it. I found him after the event because the blood on his face was dry.

His nose swelled up, but that was it. I called my vet ( I have his cell) and he said as long as he was not having a hard time breathing through his nose he would be fine.

This is the size of his nose on a normal day.

J.Wal

From the second pic, it's clear he knew he did a good job for his pack! I hope you gave a good treat that day!

Good doggie!!!