Lee 4 die set

[kd5exp]

Well my dies came in today( 38/357 ) and it had a very good instructions with pictures. I know there are tricks to setting these up so any infromation I would be very gratefull. Thanks Gene

 

[jepp2]

Have you reloaded before? Makes a difference on the type suggestions I would offer.

If you ask, you will get 2 strongly different opinions regarding the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die. One side will swear by it, the other will say you don't need it and it can cause issues.

I take a different approach. I use the Lee CFCD less internals to full length size my brass, then I use the carbide sizing die to just size the neck. Overworks the brass less and gives a much smoother case. But it is an extra step.

Lube isn't required for the carbide dies, but it can make sizing much easier. I find that if I tumble in media treated with Nufinish car polish it significantly reduces the sizing effort.

Lee has some useful videos on their website that are worth checking out.

Pay attention to what you are doing and check for double charges in your cases before you seat your bullets. Start low and work up watching for signs of pressure.

 

[Argonnakid]

I use Lee dies too. Something I have found to help me get my bullet seating dies really close to where they need to be is to use a factory loaded round of the exact match to what I am loading for. As far as the sizing dies just follow the instructions and then follow the instructions again. You didn't say if your loading on a Lee press or not. I don't think that it matters, but I know that with Lee presses, there is a bit of play in the turrets(I think that it is built in) and that is accounted for when you set up your dies. So if your loading on a Lee, be sure to allow for that little bit of lift on the turret when you bring the ram all the way up.
One other piece of advice is if your using Lee presses, get extra turrets for when you start to load other calibers. They are cheap and once you set up your dies, you don't have to mess with it again. FSreloading.com is a great place to get Lee parts, Just got my 2nd Pro1000 with dies for $174.00 from them. Die sets can cost around $30-35 as you know.

 

[kd5exp]

I have not ever load pistols rounds before. Done alot of rifles for bench rest shooting. All 4 of my presses are single press and I had them devoted to there operation. Have 2 simple Lees presses that are strictly for seating with comp seating dies with the mic on them. I think a turrent press in in the future. I posted another thread on here where I messed up and had a 223 rem die in the press and resized the 38 and 357 with it. Took me a long time to find that. Didn't think it was possible but it is. I have 50 cases in the tumbler now and will start in the morning on them. Do you recomend to clean the brass before or after resizing or both.

 

[arjay]

I clean them after resizing.

 

[AABEN]

Jest set them up like Lee says. Will work with no trouble.I like my turret press has loaded thousands of rounds in my life time. I loaded 3000 round this year and I am 72 years old. Did not shoot as much this year do to the HIGH heat this year. GOOD LUCK

 

[SMSgt]

I tumble before sizing to remove grit/dirt. While it may not damage the carbide ring, it can (and will) damage the casing. No need to tumble to a bright, shiny finish unless that's a personal preference.

 

[dickttx]

As said above, use the manufacturers instructions. And do some practice rounds. I always assume the manufacturer know what he is talking about. Later on you can do some adapting.

 

[rsrocket1]

If you are tumbling with walnut, it's better to clean before depriming/resizing. If a piece of walnut gets stuck in the flash hole the depriming pin will knock it out. It shouldn't make a difference in your shot if there is a piece stuck in there because the primer blast will easily knock it out and still light the powder but why handicap the primer at all?

Secondly, since you are reloading revolver rounds, they are probably not hitting the dirt so you don't risk scratching the brass when you resize if you did so before cleaning. With autoloading rounds, its best to clean before resizing. Heck, if I have a batch of 38/357 that isn't sooty, half the time I don't even bother cleaning them. I just load them back up.

As for the Lee dies, since it looks like you are starting out with jacketed bullets, here are some hints. When you use the expander die, flare the case just enough to let you place a bullet on the case without having it tip over during the seating process. No need to ram that thing its full length into the case. That way you'll get maximum neck tension holding your bullet in with the slightest of flare at the top.

In the seating stage, you can either just seat the bullet without adjusting the die to crimp, then use the FCD to iron out the flare and crimp, OR adjust the seating die to both seat and crimp. The latter is a little more tricky, but saves you a separate step. It's OK to use the FCD on jacketed bullets. They are tougher and smaller than lead bullets and can easily stand the resizing ring on that die.

With cast bullets, there might be a reason to cast a fat bullet, carefully expand the case for the full length of the projectile and then seat it. The FCD will squeeze the case to factory specs which may swage the bullet down which will ruin the reason for casting the fat bullet.

 

[Argonnakid]

I like to tumble before I resize with untreated corn cob, get off all the dirt and such.

 

[Prof_Fate]

With cast bullets, there might be a reason to cast a fat bullet, carefully expand the case for the full length of the projectile and then seat it. The FCD will squeeze the case to factory specs which may swage the bullet down which will ruin the reason for casting the fat bullet.

I agree with all you say except the last bit. I've heard this over and over on many forums and threads but I've yet to see it happen, or see that it could happen.

The case mouth has a max outside diameter and the FCD will /can (its adjustable of course) get the case to the spec size or perhaps smaller (haven't tried smaller). In every 'case' the bullet OD is less than the finished case OD - so the FCD ID is still beyond what the bullet measure.

If the bullet is larger OD than the case it won't fit in the chamber...

On a 38/357 the Bullet diameter .357 in or perhaps a few thousandths larger and the case Neck diameter is .379 - .022 LARGER than the bore / bullet.

If the FCD would swage a bullet so would ANY case crimping die - it has to fit past the bullet to get to the case mouth, right?

 

[kd5exp]

Well I cleaned 50 cases last night and started loading. The bullets came out looking real nice. I raised the charge to 3.8 gr and stoped there. Shot 3 at a time and will work more on it later. I used the 4th die crimper instead of the seating die to crimp. Look real good. I will have to start over sense I will change to lead bullets. 140 gr SWC cast bullets is what I have ordered and will play with them. Man it got cold here today. Whats the rule about lead bullets again?

 

[BruceM]

so the FCD ID is still beyond what the bullet measure./QUOTE]

If the cast bullet were not swaged down by the FCD, the post sizing feature would be doing nothing, which, by the way, make the need for it disappear. Because two things cannot occupy the same space at the same time, any post sizing must change the size of the bullet-never a good thing after the fact. If the groove diameter of your barrel is correct, the chamber throats in a revolver are correct and the bullet sized correctly for both. You should not need the post sizing feature of the FCD for handgun rounds. If, however, you are using mixed and/or range pickup brass for reloads to be fired thru an extremely tightly chambered barrel such as a Kart and minute of plate accuracy works for you, the FCD is an expedient work around to take care of other unattended issues further up the pipeline.

Bruce

 

[Argonnakid]

To my way of thinking, if the bullet fits in the brass and the brass fits into the FCD, then the bullet has to be smaller in dia. than the brass. And therefore the bullet wouldn't be affected as such as the brass in the FCD. At least directly. Brass gets squeezed, lead does too. I load 9mm and as that is a "straight wall" casing that headspaces on the lip of the case, I have to use a taper crimp. I have mine set(FCD) abit on the tight side. And I have yet to see any sign of bullet deformation, lead or plated or otherwise. Same thing with my .380 set up, or my .223 rem.

 

[Skip Sackett]

WRONG!

If the FCD would swage a bullet so would ANY case crimping die - it has to fit past the bullet to get to the case mouth, right?

No, the LFCD works completely different than any other crimping die and should NOT be used for lead bullets, EVER.

I cast my own bullets and have tried to cast some a bit oversize to match a bore or cylinder throat that was a tad big. Kept having leading issues UNTIL I stopped using the LFCD.

It works on the outside of the case to bring it to factory specs and if you cast large, that means that your bullets are larger than factory specs and the LFCD works to bring the case back into specs resizing your bullet.

You either purchase your cast bullets, don't shoot very many cast bullets or run mostly plated or jacketed bullets or do not have a LFCD.

If you did any one of the above, you would know better than to post something like this.

 

[kd5exp]

OK now I'm starting to get a bit confused. I ordered the lead bullets resized and lubed ready to load. Sorry if I sound ignorant about it but I want to uderstand why I am doing what I am going to do also. I got this pistol from my dad after he passed away and dug it out to play with. My dad has been gone 16yeras now and the gun is a police issue 38 Sp. Only thing I can find on it is ( 38 S & W CTG ). It shoots well enough with bought ammo but thought Iwould start reloading if I am going to shoot alot. I have loaded 50 rounds of Hornady 140 GR FTX with 3.8 gr of Titegroup. I have read that for plinking lead is the way to go. I hope so because I have a 1000 rounds of the 140's coming. Cleaning is not a problem. Sense I come from bench shooting I have gotten into cleaning very often. Never loaded lead in my rifles and most likely couldn't moving 3600 fps. I will be loading 357 Mags also, so what do you recomend to shoot?

 

[Maximumbob54]

I would first get rid of the Titegroup powder. That has got to be the most common posted powder sited with kaboom issues from reloading. It's a very fast burning, hard to see in the case, very minimal case filling powder. And if you are going to start loading .357 magnum next then I would get rid of the Titegroup for sure. With .38 special I like to use Win 231 but have a new found love of Win WSF and may be swaping over to using WSF for more of my loads. As far as pistol powders go WSF is more of a medium burn rate. If you are going to be loading .357 then I would buy some 2400. If you don't like that one then I would go ahead and buy some 2400 instead of the 2400. If that still isn't doing it for you then I guess if you really wanted to you could try some 2400. And just in case you might want to also buy and extra 2400 just to try some side by side with the 2400.

I no longer care for the Lee dies for my revolver ammo. But I load on the Lee Classic turret so I buy them anyways. I use the sizing die, expander die with the Pro Auto Disk powder measure, use a RCBS bullet seater that isn't set low enough for any crimping action, and then use the Lee seating and crimping die with the bullet seater backed all the way out (or you can just remove it) so that all it does is roll crimp the case and then the cartridge is done. I swapped out for the RCBS die for bullet seating because I was tired of the Lee's seating stem rounding off the flat SWC. Yes, the Carbide FCD does swage down most of your cast bullets as you want almost all cast bullets to be that .001" over bore size if not sometimes .002" over. And some brands will have thicker case walls than some so that means the bullets will be swaged down even more. I only use the Lee carbide FCD for auto loader ammo as a personal choice but don't use them on any of my revolver ammo. Oh, and you really should try some 2400 for .357 magnum loads. Really.

 

[kd5exp]

I take it you like the 2400 powder. I went to Ducan to get some 2400 powder and the salesman talked me into this titegroup. Should have stuck to my guns, LOL. I have used 2400 before in my shotshell years ago and still load a few but with 700X powder. There are no shops here close so I will have to wait till I go over there again. I only go that far due to hazmat fees and try to get a list of what I want when I go. There is a shop that is going to open soon called Brocks Firearms not far from me but I don't know if they are going to handle reloading supplies or not. Been trying to catch him there but not lucky yet. Maybe after the frist of the year they will open up. I have read about the problems useing powder that doesn't fill the case enough and are apt to over charging with this powder. I have already used up my luck with using wrong die on these and have been very carefull loading what I have done.

 

[Maximumbob54]

You could also use H110 or Win 296 but there is something about not loading them lower than 3% from max or the powder doesn't ignite well. I just find it sooooo much easier to use 2400 instead. It's not the best powder for .38 special but it can be used and it still makes a great .357 magnum and .44 magnum powder.

It actually bothers me that a salesman is pushing people into Titegroup.

And as uppity as it sounds there is just no room for error or assumption in loading ammo. You have to have a pretty critical eye for EVERYTHING you are doing at all times. We all make a mistake or two and it's pretty rare anyone has a mistake that's too critical but we all still see a new internet post of a kaboom from time to time and those are just the ones people post about.

If your new store is a good one they will at least stock the powder and primers as they can max out the hazmat fee and spread the cost over the sales of all the stock. It's usually no good for them to get the bullets or brass as they would have to mark it up too much to make any profit for themselves.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Did anyone notice that he said it is the "38 S&W" cartridge? Um, last I checked that is not the same as the "38 Special" cartridge.

Before we suggest anything we better find out for sure the caliber of his gun!