Lee Enfield Long Branch No. 4 Mk1*... but all LE's seem to be disappearing as a surplus rifle you can buy?

[Jäger1]

Local guy I met at the range and who tried my Long Branch out said he has been unsuccessful in looking for one to buy locally here in Montana. Gone are the days in the 70's where you could find a very high quality surplused Lee Enfield for about $25.

I am not in the market for one as I have two Long Branch 1950 No.4 Mk1* I bought 30+ years ago, complete with arsenal hang tags, for Service Rifle competition (oh, the joys of removing cosmoline). But the last two big gun shows I've gone to, I've only seen two, maybe three displayed for sale. Two of them had been giving the loving attention of Bubba, and the third already had a No. 3 bolthead mounted. Meaning that even though the headspace probably is still correct, the rifle body is now worn out (that's how the Brit armourers would see such a rifle). Of course, the owners of such rifles aren't likely as casual shooters to put as many rounds through those rifles as your average squaddy did before the rifle was sold out of service.

Can find them online - but how frequently do you see them in good local gun stores and pawn shops? The price they command today has been steadily rising - so interest in them isn't just a short term fad.

 

[LVSteve]

All the classic bolt action milsurps got much more expensive after COVID. Why COVID made a difference I have no clue. Before then you could still pick up Carcano cavalry carbines in nice shape for $150 online, but now they go for $250-300. Refurbed Mosin 91/30s bought for $69.99 from Big 5 20 years ago now sell for $300 minimum, even the rough 1942-43 Izhevsk rifles.

Run of the mill SMLEs and Enfield No4s have all doubled the last 10 years or so. UF 55 serialed rifles in the wrap sell for about $1000. My last two Enfield buys were incredibly lucky low-$$$ snags from online estate auctions thanks to poor descriptions and pictures. That said, I haven't bought one in 3-4 years.

Nearly all the Enfields I see at gun stores and shows have issues, such as mismatching bolts, heavily sanded wood, obviously mismatched wood (for various reasons), and the greatest indignities that can be suffered, Tru-Oil or polyurethane coatings. Even so, dealers and even private owners have price tags of $450 and up attached. Don't make me smile.

 

[fiasconva]

I don't know if you are a member of the Enfield-Rifles.com forum but if not, you should check them out. I'm sure they'd love to see your post put on their forum. It is very informative.

 

[GypsmJim]

My Long Branch Enfield was an expensive purchase. I got it at KMart for $40 in 1971, when other milsurps were selling at Woolworths for about 20 bucks.

It appeared to be unissued and unfired. One of my better purchases.

The bad news was that the only surplus ammo I could find in .303 was cordite click-boom stuff. The good news is that it encouraged me to buy a Lee Loader and start casting boolits, so the 40 bucks was well spent.

I still have it.....

 

[6string]

Supply and demand has a lot to do with it.

But, so does the diminishing criteria of what is good/bad or acceptable/unacceptable. This becomes a bigger issue as more and more uninformed or poorly informed people get into the milsurp field this late in the game.
And, there's folks for whom money just burns a hole in their pockets!

Growing up in Halifax, Nova Scotia, as WWII ended, my dad often described the proliferation of Lee-Enfields, and other amazing anecdotes. Halifax, if you don't know was/is the Atlantic gateway to Canada, as well as of great military importance.
My dad told me he would see open box cars piled with Lee Enfields brought back after the war.
They were sold everywhere: Army-Navy stores, hardware stores, even barber shops. $3.00 would get you a nice one!
In other words, the reverse side of "supply & demand"!

 

[GypsmJim]

Supply and demand has a lot to do with it.

But, so does the diminishing criteria of what is good/bad or acceptable/unacceptable. This becomes a bigger issue as more and more uninformed or poorly informed people get into the milsurp field this late in the game.
And, there's folks for whom money just burns a hole in their pockets!

Growing up in Halifax, Nova Scotia, as WWII ended, my dad often described the proliferation of Lee-Enfields, and other amazing anecdotes. Halifax, if you don't know was/is the Atlantic gateway to Canada, as well as of great military importance.
My dad told me he would see open box cars piled with Lee Enfields brought back after the war.
They were sold everywhere: Army-Navy stores, hardware stores, even barber shops. $3.00 would get you a nice one!
In other words, the reverse side of "supply & demand"!

My company owned the largest quarry in the world, located in Halifax. My trips there were awesome. One of the best places in the world.

 

[6string]

My company owned the largest quarry in the world, located in Halifax. My trips there were awesome. One of the best places in the world.

My parents grew up there, and have retired there.
The attached pictures are from their back yard on a lake.
Yes, it's a very nice. So much history, too!

Oh, by the way, speaking of Lee Enfields, I used to take the train everyday in Toronto that went right past the old Long Branch armory!

 

[MelvinWalker]

Milsurps are cyclical and one-ended on pricing....M1 Carbines from J&G sales were $139 in 1995...I bought every manufacturer and paid an extra $30 for an Irwin-Pedersen. Sold every one later for a profit when cheap ammo became less available.

Anything that has limited supply and is offered cheap, will eventually gain a following....Inevitably, the following will realize the prices are increasing and the following will continue to collect the model/variants and prices will increase until interest in the item wanes.

Finnish rifles are a classic example as well.

 

[Exaviator]

Over the years, Enfield .303s have gone from being readily available government surplus to become collectors items. So, not surprising that they are becoming hard to find. If you do find a good example, it would no longer be cheap.

 

[duke2002]

I picked one up about 10 yrs ago. If i would have been interested in one 20 yrs ago they were all over lol! I miss the days about 25 yrs ago when surplus guns were all over and cheap!! Can't buy them all!!

 

[frankw]

I bought a Longbranch No4 MK 1 about 35 years ago. There was a surplus gun shop in Atlanta that had barrels of them. I don't know what I paid but probably $75 for a nice one.
I use to work with a bunch of former military gun nuts. They had M1's, Fal's, Steyr Augs, almost anything you could think of and about once a month or so we would get together at a public range and have a big shoot.
I retired from there 22 years ago and I never shot it anymore so I finally sold it for 10 times what I paid for it and included some ammo, reloading dies and some Enfield books.
It was a good rifle and I enjoyed my time with it!

 

[roundels]

I remember buying a decent Lithgow #1 MkIII for $75, a mint FF stamped #4 Mk I for $125 and a genuine (not Bubba-ed) Jungle Carbine for $175. The latter two were painted in British Black that was still about 95% intact. I remember grumbling that the newer the weapon was the more it went for. I was sure spoiled by today's standards.

 

[Jäger1]

Aside from the reality of "they aren't making them anymore", I can't prove it, but I think the collector market has a lot to do with the price increases. Pulling a number from memory, I think about 17 million No. 4 rifles were made worldwide. Some were destroyed in war, lost on merchant vessels sunk on the trip to Europe, etc. When all the calculations are done, there's still a lot of No. 4 rifles still surviving.

There were very few Lee Enfield collectors 30 years ago; the odd one, but T models, complete with their box and all the accessories sat on tables at the Calgary Gun Show, unsold with a $700 price tag on them. There were no Lee Enfield collectors back then looking to add a T to their collection?

In Canada, where Lee Enfields are ubiquitous? Now a rifle like that will sell for around $7,000.

People new to hunting don't think of a Lee Enfield, Bubba'd already or not, as an inexpensive way to start hunting as they did in Canada at least for decades. That's understandable when you consider what Savage and other companies have been offering for an entry level .308 or similar caliber rifle along with an accuracy guarantee. So it isn't hunter demand pushing prices up.

Then there's the guys who just want a milsurp for fun blasting away at a borrow pit off a forestry road or at the local range. A LE qualifies, but the blaster appeal really diminishes when super cheap military surplus ammunition disappears and they have to feed their blaster with commercial ammunition sold in 20 round boxes. So while there's still people who will buy one just to shoot a milsurp and satisfied that a few boxes of commercial ammunition a year is good enough, they aren't soaking up LEs offered for sale as they used to.

Now there's many people who have 5, 10, 30 etc Lee Enfields; they're collectors. And importantly, the more pristine the rifle is that appears on the market, the more people willing to compete with each other to pay high dollar to add it to their collection.

It isn't unique to Lee Enfields. I wanted a S&W 17-6 to use for inexpensive practice for PPC Distinguished matches. What made it special for me was the full length underlug barrel and trigger pull that made it extremely similar to my Model 14 I shot those Distinguished matches with. There's no end of the different flavors of 17s/K22s out there well suited for target practice that don't have both the full underlug 6" barrel and a six shot cylinder - but S&W didn't offer the six shot, full length underlug for very long. And so it became a high demand collector Smith.

Ultimately, after not bidding enough on multiple 17-6s that came up for sale, I resigned myself to paying what I thought was a ridiculous price for a not quite pristine 17-6 offered for sale on the Internet. That, at a time where you can a brand new 617 for far, far less money - a revolver that I would recommend to anyone asking me which .22 revolver to purchase to begin shooting .22 rimfire.

For those who just want ONE, one that is likely to be a very good grouper at the range, this is what I think of as The Curse Of The Collector.

 

[Jäger1]

I don't know if you are a member of the Enfield-Rifles.com forum but if not, you should check them out. I'm sure they'd love to see your post put on their forum. It is very informative.

Yep, I'm on that and a few other milsurp related forums/subforums where there's regular discussion on the care, feeding, and target shooting with Lee Enfields. My account at Enfield-Rifles (and Gunboards) disappeared at some point during Wuhan Flu, but I just fired it up again while in pursuit of suggestions regarding some tuning I intend to do this year if time and opportunity permits.

 

[Dave Haynes]

When Russia invaded Afghanistan the supply of cheap 303 ammo disappeared immediately. The Afgans were all familiar with the Enfields and the cartridge. The secret backers of both sides had the money and the power to buy up any surplus weapon and cartridge on the market. At the time, in the US there was also a lot of negative feelings about the .303 being a poor choice to reload because of the rimmed design and the cases stretching making reloading a 2 or 3 time case before discarding the brass. If I was going to have to select a bolt action rifle to use in combat, the Enfield MK 4 would be my first choice. 10 shots vs 5, smooth action, reasonably accurate, modern sights. The 98K has 5 shots and sights that are not very good in my opinion. How many Germans died while trying to get the clips out of the way while the Brits were still shooting?

 

[SF VET]

When I was in the 7th grade in 1959 a local Kresge had barrels of surplus rifles. Rode my bike to the store and bought my first firearm a 1915 MK III for ten bucks and reload and shoot it. I did have it rebarreled. Also a mint Argentine Mauser far a few bucks more. Finally got the MK 5 about a decade ago. Got a vet bring back K 98 with bayonet 5 years ago. $300 for it. Kicks like a mule. Wish I had gotten the later Enfield back then. SF VET

 

[fiasconva]

My late father-in-law purchased his No.4 Mk1* (1942, Savage Arms) at a Roses Store back in the 80's for $29.95. He always chuckled about the price and said that after his credit card discount and veteran's discount he thought they were going to end up paying him to take it. Sadly, he never got the chance to shoot it.

 

[bph9]

All the classic bolt action milsurps got much more expensive after COVID. Why COVID made a difference I have no clue. Before then you could still pick up Carcano cavalry carbines in nice shape for $150 online, but now they go for $250-300. Refurbed Mosin 91/30s bought for $69.99 from Big 5 20 years ago now sell for $300 minimum, even the rough 1942-43 Izhevsk rifles.

Run of the mill SMLEs and Enfield No4s have all doubled the last 10 years or so. UF 55 serialed rifles in the wrap sell for about $1000. My last two Enfield buys were incredibly lucky low-$$$ snags from online estate auctions thanks to poor descriptions and pictures. That said, I haven't bought one in 3-4 years.

Nearly all the Enfields I see at gun stores and shows have issues, such as mismatching bolts, heavily sanded wood, obviously mismatched wood (for various reasons), and the greatest indignities that can be suffered, Tru-Oil or polyurethane coatings. Even so, dealers and even private owners have price tags of $450 and up attached. Don't make me smile.

In reality most people seldom pay attention to what is going on in Europe. Nato passed an anti-gun law demanding that all military surplus rifles not being used or declared obsolete should be turned into be destroyed. The idea being to keep them from being sold as surplus to civilians, especially the American Market that would have snapped them all up in a heartbeat. Of course my warnings and info to my buddies went unheeded and of course not believed as they blissfully went on Bubba-ing what they had cutting the value down to nothing and destroying guns that were soon destined to quickly, almost overnight, become expensive collectors items. I called their conjured up creations and destruction "Frankenmonster guns".

 

[JohnRippert]

I bought all my Enfields back in the '90s except for one. I sold some over the years but I still have a No1MK3, a Savage No4, a No5MK1, and a No2MKIV

 

[31FordA]

The Enfield is my favorite rifle. I bought my first Enfield, a #4Mk1, in 1995 for $40. Since then I've purchased many more of them. I've gotten two #4Mk2's, a Lithgow #1MkIII, a 1916 #1MkIII that was transferred to the Irish Free State, and a MkV carbine. I've also got a RIC Lee Metford carbine. At one time I also had one of the #7 Carbines that Navy Arms sold, made from the Indian 7.62mm #1's. The most I've paid for an Enfield was $600 for my last #4Mk2. The Enfield I still want to get is one of the .22 trainers, but they tend to sell for more than I want to pay.

Navy Arms recently had a bunch of #4Mk1's that had been supplied to the French resistance. I looked at some at the Oaks gun show, they were in nice shape. I think they wanted around a grand for them. If I had the money at the time I would've bought one.

 

[dsf]

My 67 year old eyes still do 20/20 - LOVE that rear peep sight!

 

[CptCurl]

Does anybody know where I can find a good magazine for a #4 Mk1? Or perhaps some advice on how to make mine feed properly?

I have a really nice rifle, but it has feeding problems I would like to sort out.

Thanks,
Curly

 

[Exmilcop]

Does anybody know where I can find a good magazine for a #4 Mk1? Or perhaps some advice on how to make mine feed properly?

I have a really nice rifle, but it has feeding problems I would like to sort out.

Thanks,
Curly

If you do an online search you may find a private sale or auction house with one. As to the feeding, if you can find a buddy with a good functioning Lee Enfield and mag, ask if you can check the orientation of the rounds in the mag and then carefully bend the feed lips of your mag to match. I'm not saying that'll fix it, but that's one possibility. Also check the king screw and make sure it has both the proper collar and lock washer. I love the No.4's and grew up with 'em. I nailed my first deer with one at about 150 yds. When I grew up, the ammo was cheap as dirt, about 20-25 cents per round. Most of it was corrosive but we always looked for the DI or DIZ stuff since it was reloadable and boxer primed. I could go on and on about "the good ol' days". I bought several of the Long Branch No.4's that were new in the grease when they hit the market. The story was they were found in a NATO warehouse in Belgium and all 1950 dated, black walnut stocked, nicely blued, and made for the Korean conflict. Cleaning the cosmoline out of them was a PITA, but OMG, what lovely rifles! I've divested myself of all my collectibles and figured they should go to a next generation of firearms enthusiasts and I now have only what I use for hunting and plinking. I do have a tiny bit of regret for not hanging on to my No.4 and my FN C1A1, but I've always hated the dog-in-the-manger fudds and didn't want to turn in to one of those. There's new afoot that the old arsenal lands in Long Branch are going to be developed but I've heard that the environmental assessments are problematic. Nothing is forever except death and taxes.

 

[Rocketmedic40]

I very recently took a gamble on one of the RTI Ethiopian imports. I know people have mixed opinions about RTI, but my limited experience with them is 200% great.

With the exception of one field-expedient front sling swivel repair (hung on by wire), this rifle is completely intact. The wood is filthy and there were a few superficial cracks, it was absolutely caked in cosmoline and dirt and has some patina to it, and the bore is dark with well-defined lands…but it was $274 shipped to my FFL and it's a complete 1917 No.1 Mk 3*, mechanically functional, but still with good finish under the wood line and honestly looking pretty good for a century of world wars and Ethiopian long-term storage. Even has the original sight ladder, which I honestly thought would be damaged by the stack of time.

For me, milsurps are shooters…the point is to appreciate what those who carried them went through, and in my collection (weirdly enough WW1 focused), the patina and age and imperfections of my LE are actually perks because it's not some showcase-perfect unissued masterpiece of preservation. A hard-earned patina and some residual Ethiopian greasy dust in the buttplate ain't a bug, it's a feature (and it might be a bug).

I foolishly traded away a 1915 vintage 1903 a few years ago; had spent a half-century or so as a rusty door hangar or closet stand. Had that same energy (and terrible, terrible stock sights). I'll eventually pick up another one. My 1917 American Enfield is in as-issued configuration but has been reblued….no big deal at all, because it shoots lights-out and it's got that dark, honest look and gravitas only time can grant. My M1 carbine was reblued enough to look almost plum-colored….no biggie; it's a purple people puncher now. The 1900-vintage 1894 still hangs right up next to the Marlin 89 years newer. Point is, the age and vintage seem to look at the AR and the newer stuff in the safe like they're saying "am I supposed to be impressed?"

If I could go back in time and for some reason was going to give myself irrelevant advice about milsurp collections, I'd tell me to worry not about the little things like collectors grades or crappy sights or patinas. Those old dudes sitting on barrels of unissued surplus never got a minutes worth of fun or enjoyment out of the things and now they're gone- or worse, communicating that same bad vibe forward with snobbery and strangulating prices. I'd tell me to gamble on the RTI, keep the rusty POS, and don't worry about someone's opinion if I'm having fun!
**traded the 1903 and an AR for the M1 carbine, which nicely rounded out my American milsurp collection and is honestly in pretty nice condition.

 

[Terry G]

All the C&R's we have bought at bargain basement prices have gone way up, just the way of things. I am really tired of hearing "What? I coulda bought that for $100.00!" (A Yugoslavian 59/66) My response is "Why didn't you?" My two, a MKIII* and a No.4.

 

[Sarge9]

Atlantic has a few, FYI

 

[MajorD]

I also recall when they were plentiful! My last one I bought was in 2000 or so, $99 with bayonet, a US property marked savage. Back when I was in college (late 80's) my school was not far from Springfield sporters in Penn Run PA. Back then they had large barns lined with rifle racks 100+ yards long, and you could go through and pick a rifle off the rack. They had racks with various mausers enfields and more,and in my case I went with a Pattern 14. The rifle was $60 ( or about 1/2 my monthly military National guard drill check which had to sustain me through the month) and when I went to pay for it they handed you a box of ammo to go with it!
Typical #4 enfields are now about $500, and Pattern 14's even more.
I bought a 1917 from CMP at the camp perry store in 2009 when I returned from Afghanistan when they were selling for around $300, and are now $750+.
I thinned the herd of a lot of my old surplus rifles, and wish I might have kept a few.
While in Afghanistan we were allowed to obtain and ship home anything we could reasonable prove was antique ( pre 1/1/1899 per federal law) and I have a Snider Lebel and a couple martini Henry's from there I shoot regularly. For those that complain about the increasing cost and limited availability of 303 ammo, try shooting a 577 Snider or 577/450 Martini!

 

[oldcorps76]

Bought a #1 Mk III Aussie Lithgow, excellent factory recondition, in the 1980's at the heyday of import mania, in full WW1 condition. $100. Bought a leather sling and Sold it becuz no surplus ammo. A mistake.

 

[Glenn R. McMannly]

My unissued condition '55 Faz is my favorite:



Shoots like a dream and I'd trust it for more than just hunting.

 

[2152hq]

I was never interested much in the #4 rifle or even the #5. I had a couple of each and resold them. Even a sniper #4 (no scope).
My interest was the SMLE MkI and No1MkIII(*).
I bought and sold a ton of those MkIII rifles especially in the 90's. They were easy to find at shows for $100 and under for a rell good one. A prime example was still under $150. They'd resell on the net for twice the price and more very easily.
The earlier MkI rifles from the 1904 to 1907 era were still not east to find but I did manage to get a few.
A kept a commercial BSA MkI* and still have it along with a 1906 BSA MkI*** military ,,one of the so called Irish Rifles.
Another sporterized MkI*** sits awaiting restoration.
The early Sparkbrook MkI that I sold for the large sum of $435 many yrs ago would have been one to keep. But the amt was a lot for even an early SMLE at the time.

A commercial BSA CLLE in great condition about rounds out what's left of the group.