Les Baer or Dan Wesson?

[Sevens]

Can't speak of dan wesson, though they seem to be a real value for what goes in to them. I went with a les baer 1.5" premier II. I figured they spend a lot of extra time on an already great pistol tuning it from a 3" to a 1.5" gun. Not that I can shoot well enough to see a difference. But it was only 200 more than the 3" which is a steal for a few extra hours of baer shop time.

Actually...

That isn’t how Les Baer makes the 1.5” guarantee pistols.

They make all of them the same way and they expect a 3-inch at 50 yard guarantee and if they don’t have that, they start over. Most of them bring it to that threshold. Sometimes, it all comes together in the build and the net result is 1.5” at 50 yards and when that happens, Baer qualifies that one as a 1.5” guaranteed pistol and charges $200 more for it.

 

[Hapworth]

Actually...

That isn’t how Les Baer makes the 1.5” guarantee pistols.

They make all of them the same way and they expect a 3-inch at 50 yard guarantee and if they don’t have that, they start over. Most of them bring it to that threshold. Sometimes, it all comes together in the build and the net result is 1.5” at 50 yards and when that happens, Baer qualifies that one as a 1.5” guaranteed pistol and charges $200 more for it.

Politely, this isn't true, though it is much reported.

Rob Schauland spent years at LB building 1911s before opening his own shop; he has definitively stated that the 1.5" guns are built purposely, differently, and with more gunsmith hours than the standard 3".

 

[muddocktor]

Politely, this isn't true, though it is much reported.

Rob Schauland spent years at LB building 1911s before opening his own shop; he has definitively stated that the 1.5" guns are built purposely, differently, and with more gunsmith hours than the standard 3".

That must be why Rob gives a standard guaranty of 1.5" at 25 yards for his ACW guns then. His upgrade is to less than 1" at 25 yards.

 

[Hapworth]

...I've never owned a Baer, but some caution against the non-full sized Baer for reasons I don't recall...

Baer Custom does a few things in odd ways: frames that are non-standard dimensions; roll pin in front sites; "hard fit" approach that includes interference fit (and subsequent battering)...

And then there's the Comanches (Baer's name for a Commander size); rather than using a proper Commander frame (with shorter rails), Baer inexplicably uses a Government frame with a Commander slide, resulting in a short-cycling 1911. It works (though many won't slingshot), but it unnecessarily reduces reliability threshold.

 

[THREEDFLYER]

Although my first hand ejector was a 4" Dan Wesson .357 Magnum, I have not had any experience with their semi-autos.

However, I now have just over 600 rounds through my Les Baer Custom .45 ACP and love it! Just starting to break in according to Baer and this one has the 1.5" guarantee. Being a bullseye shooter I can honestly say that this gun is amazing and can perform far better than I am capable of.

When I first got it I could barely rack the slide.....such an incredibly tight fit and now after 600 shots it's starting to become a bit easier. Still snug but what a tack driver!

 

[Jebus35745]

So Bob, what are you leaning towards buying? Probably more confused by now. You can bring it to the NE Ohio Bunch this spring to show off. Couple pictures of the STI in 9mm. My .45 auto now is a CZ 97 that was sent to Cajun Gunworks, very accurate. Larry

 

[THEMULE]

I don’t know which way I’m gonna go Larry. Yes, I’m more confused! Lol..... How do you like your STI’s?
I am starting to look at the Alchemy 1911’s as mentioned above, they are beautiful......except for the solid trigger. I like the holes. Sorry folks, to each his own.

What I am certain of is, I need to save more pennies.
Happy Thanksgiving everybody. Enjoy the day.
Bob

 

[muddocktor]

Bob, if you want holes in the trigger, you can probably get them from Rob also. He hangs out at the 1911 forums in the Other 1911 forums, which would be where to post to him the question or simply email the question to his email address on the ACW website. As for holes in the trigger I can go either way, but I cannot stand the garish stars that Cabot uses.

My gun is his Prime Elite instead of the regular Prime, as it included just about all the options I would have gone with anyways with the Prime. The grips on mine are the Ironwood, which is an upgrade and I also went with the ambi safety, and adjustable Novak rear sight. And mine has the medium length trigger option; he also offers a short length and a long length option at $25 extra charge.

EDIT: Since you say you are considering the ACW, here are some more pics of my Prime Elite for you to look at.
Jim

 

[Jebus35745]

Bob, the Trojan’s are discontinued. The one I got (9mm) is very accurate, shot it out of a ransom rest at NOSC. Nice thing with a DW is you can add a mag well and the trigger of your choice. I like the looks of a mag well on a 1911. Take a deep breathe and be patient, you will find the 1911 that makes you happy. The Rock Island is an entry level gun but people love them. Nice light trigger and reliable. Add The parts the way you want it when done. Have a great Thanksgiving, Larry

 

[F75gunslinger]

I can't speak to either Baer or Wesson, as I have a SIG that has never given me an issue and is more accurate than I can be. So no need to go further down that rabbit hole.

 

[alwaysoutdoors]

Buy a mid grade Dan Wesson ($1000 to $1300 or so) and it will be all the 1911 you want in accuracy, fit, finish, and overall quality. I have owned them for 20 years when they were actually Dan Wesson in name and before CZ bought them out. My current DW is a government size Valor in black duty coat (name?). I’ve owned Various Kimber custom shop 1911s, Colt 1911s (from 100 yrs old to 10 ) Springfield Armory 1911s ,etc.
the Dan Wesson is a fine gun , real fine.

 

[GypsmJim]

Wrong. My true 1911A1.

And it's not from Colt.

OK, I'll concede. When I made the statement I was thinking about current manufacture (and overpriced) stuff. An Ithaca surely is a 1911, but its from a different era.

 

[WC145]

I've owned lots of 1911s, including custom builds and "semi-customs" from higher end manufacturers. I think Les Baer's guns are bargains compared to his competitors. They are all hand fitted, rugged as all get out, crazy accurate, and run great, personally I don't mind the slightly larger grip frame dimensions. I haven't owned any Dan Wessons, for whatever reason they just don't appeal to me but I have a gunsmith friend who was a CZ/DW dealer for several years and I got to handle and examine many different DW 1911s. They're nice guns, and when the prices were in the $1200-$1400 range they seemed like good deals but they priced themselves out of that niche between TRPs and Baers and they're not such a good deal when the pries are approaching Baer money. I could have bought any of them at near cost and never did, Instead I bought Colts, TRPs, Baers, and Browns.

Currently I have two Baers, a special order Hemi that I haven't gotten around to shooting yet, and a Boss that has had some extra work done on it by Joe Chambers. The Boss is an outstanding shooter, wicked accurate, and handles great, it is currently seeing more trigger time than an of my other 1911s. If I were in the market I wouldn't hesitate to order another Baer. If I'm going to spend more than Baer money I'll have something built. If I'm spending less there are some real deals out there these days on new Colts (which are really nice, I've bought several over the last few years) and the new Springfield Defender Mil-Spec is an absolute bargain.

My Baer Boss-

 

[44wheelman]

My brother is a gunsmith and competitor. He has a les baer. He had to fix things he did not like about it. He claims they take shortcuts, and there are a couple non standard parts in them. He recently bought a dw pm45. He is very pleased with it....more so than his les b. He says right now, they have $200 off new dw’s. I have a les b. wadcutter gun, I like it, but I am not as picky as my brother. Can’t imagine a tighter lockup. He talked me into a new pm45 for heavier hardball range time with no red dot..... we shall see.

As many said, if you want an above average production gun for less money....go dw. You want something semi-custom, go les b.. if you got buckets of money to throw at it....I would step up to a custom build, like alchemy. That is a pretty gun.

 

[boatbum101]

For me it all depends on what my intended use is going to be . All that said a gun for SD / CCW is one thing & a precision paper puncher is another . A $ 700 SA Range Officer in 45acp with a larger slide stop pin & a fitted bushing can be made to shoot 2 - 2.5" @ 50yds . Cost about $ 80 . Want better accuracy & trigger , get a Kart barrel fitted , fit a bushing , tighten slide to frame , get rid of the MIM fire control parts & some action work . Now you got a 2" gun @ 50yds . Now you're talking roughly $ 1,500 for gun & the work . Originally the DW Valors were forged frame / slide , some hand fitting & zero mim parts all done by one man . Again we're talking $ 1200 - 1500 . A fitted bushing will help for roughly $ 50 . The Baer guns are fitted too tight IMHO & their barrel fitting leaves something to be desired . For a couple of hundred more get a Rock River which is fitted way better than a Baer . Better than that you want a custom & Rob @ ACW will build you one of his Alchemy Prime Elites with a 1.5" guarantee last I checked around $ 2500 . Price goes way up from there . The more machining & cosmetics the price goes up . I like pretty but it don't make a gun shoot any better . Wilson top of the line is the only one of their guns with zero MIM parts , they only guarantee combat accuracy & they cost $ 5K . Rob @ ACW has built current National champ John Shue's guns & knows how to fit a gun the right way . I think that one would be very hard pressed to get a better more accurate gun in the $ 2500 price range . Just my opinion , that & $2 will get you a cup of coffee .

 

[M29since14]

Some good points by Boatbum101. When I saw this thread, similar ideas (but not exactly the same ideas) occurred to me. If I wanted a SD/CCW gun, I’d probably look more to the DW guns than the Les Bears. The Bears, and I’m thinking mainly of the Premier II series and similar models, I think of more as paper-punchers. But that’s just my outlook - more pure opinion and personal preference than based on features and facts.

All that said, I would not hesitate one-second to use a Premier II for anything if that is what I had. For CCW, a Commander (Aluminum frame) would be much nicer to lug around.

 

[Hapworth]

...I haven't owned any Dan Wessons, for whatever reason they just don't appeal to me...They're nice guns, and when the prices were in the $1200-$1400 range they seemed like good deals but they priced themselves out of that niche between TRPs and Baers and they're not such a good deal when the pries are approaching Baer money...

Currently I have two Baers, a special order Hemi that I haven't gotten around to shooting yet, and a Boss that has had some extra work done on it by Joe Chambers. The Boss is an outstanding shooter, wicked accurate, and handles great, it is currently seeing more trigger time than an of my other 1911s...

I like Baers a lot (Dan Wessons, too), but once Joe Chambers has worked on it, I'm not sure it's fair to count it as an example of a standard Baer.

And for the record, Joe says if he didn't build his own guns, he'd buy Dan Wessons...

 

[Hapworth]

For me it all depends on what my intended use is going to be . All that said a gun for SD / CCW is one thing & a precision paper puncher is another . A $ 700 SA Range Officer in 45acp with a larger slide stop pin & a fitted bushing can be made to shoot 2 - 2.5" @ 50yds . Cost about $ 80 . Want better accuracy & trigger , get a Kart barrel fitted , fit a bushing , tighten slide to frame , get rid of the MIM fire control parts & some action work . Now you got a 2" gun @ 50yds . Now you're talking roughly $ 1,500 for gun & the work . Originally the DW Valors were forged frame / slide , some hand fitting & zero mim parts all done by one man . Again we're talking $ 1200 - 1500 . A fitted bushing will help for roughly $ 50 . The Baer guns are fitted too tight IMHO & their barrel fitting leaves something to be desired . For a couple of hundred more get a Rock River which is fitted way better than a Baer . Better than that you want a custom & Rob @ ACW will build you one of his Alchemy Prime Elites with a 1.5" guarantee last I checked around $ 2500 . Price goes way up from there . The more machining & cosmetics the price goes up . I like pretty but it don't make a gun shoot any better . Wilson top of the line is the only one of their guns with zero MIM parts , they only guarantee combat accuracy & they cost $ 5K . Rob @ ACW has built current National champ John Shue's guns & knows how to fit a gun the right way . I think that one would be very hard pressed to get a better more accurate gun in the $ 2500 price range . Just my opinion , that & $2 will get you a cup of coffee .

I agree with almost everything here, especially the ACW recommendation (can't vouch for the RRAs -- I've never handled them), but in fairness to Wilson Combat, there are some inaccuracies: 1) WC uses no MIM in any of their 1911s and hasn't for years -- all bullet proof parts since at least 2014; 2) WC's accuracy guarantee in their 1911s, from their entry-level X-Tac and CQB on up, is 1" at 25 yards -- a little better than "combat accuracy".