Lesson from the street

[HardToHandle]

Most of us aren't cops so, this situation would never have happened to us. This was a determined assailant who was bent on killing the next cop that pulled him over. None of us would have pulled this guy over. None of us would have ever had any dealings with this guy under any circumstances. Even if we did, he would have been more interested in running from us because we didn't represent a threat that would follow him and put him in prison.

I both agree and disagree, respectfully. Sometimes trouble finds you as you are living your life.

In this case underwriting the thread, the bad guy was likely rational and desiring to escape. I think of a number of cases where certain evil doers did not seem to have any desire to escape...

@ 1993 CIA shooting where the bad guy worked his way down a row of cars in a turn-across-traffic lane (I get chills when I drive this roadway). The bad guy just walked away when he ran out of unarmed targets and escaped outside the country.

@ Fort Hood shooting. The shooter was engaged by police and thoroughly fought it out. No intent to flee from my understanding.

@ this weekend's Odessa shooting. Mass shooting near Odessa, Texas: What we know - Axios


I don't think we can assume the bad guy is rational or focused on escape. Sometimes all I have is 5 or 6 rounds, but that seems pretty thin when I apply to different situations.

Let's not forget the Trolley Square Mall shooting where an off duty cop was outgunned without a reload. Nonetheless, the intervention locked down the shooter's availability to additional victims. The good guys prevailed with an AR15 and MP5s but only after nine people were shot. For the record, the Salt Lake Valley is a relatively well armed place.

 

[pakettle]

M1 garand, extra clips,get off my lawn!

 

[Ziggy2525]

...
I always carry a spare mag. Not for more ammo, but in case of a malfunction. If I have a malfunction, I at least want the ability to get back in the fight. It's very unlikely that the spare mag would ever be needed either for more ammo or as a malfunction fix.

My edc pistol is 6+1. I carry an extra mag for the extra ammo if I need more than 7, to resolve any mag malfunctions if that would occur, and to be able to top off the pistol immediately after i needed it to defend myself (if I used 7 or fewer rounds). All low probability events, but not impossible. Extra mag solves three of the most common problems and is small, so no big deal to carry.

 

[Lindy]

I recall reading this article when it was first published. It certainly pertains to LEOs and the situations they might see, but as far as I have read (jewelry store robberies and similar incidents aside) I have not yet read of a CCW holder or the (armed) victim of a home invasion ever having to reload. This may simply be a detail left out of media reports.

You are correct. According to FBI data I recently read, and don't quote me on exact percentages.....

You have a .091% chance of ever having to use a firearm in self defense. "using" means just pulling out the gun and not shooting and actually shooting.

If you fall into that less than 1% of a situation, just pulling the gun out and not shooting/just presenting ends the situation 98% of the time....as in the perp runs.

If you are in that less than 1% of situations, and you have to pull your gun and actually fire it, 98% of the time the gun fight is over in 3 rounds or less and this does not matter if you hit anything, because again the perp runs.

Hence I carry my Shield 2.0 with the 7 round mag and only sometimes do I bring the 8 round magazine. I do it more for a possible magazine failure than I do for needing more than 7 rounds.

 

[Lindy]

Google Lance Thomas the LA watchmaker

I watched that air years ago on some news channel like 60min or whatever. I kept thinking after say the first two...."Why does have that shop in that area"???

The Rule of Stupids......Don't do stupid things in stupid places at stupid times with stupid people".

He had a jewelry shop in a bad neighborhood. Once he finally moved his problems went away.

 

[dla]

Gun porn for mall ninjas.

 

[film495]

If you are an average person out in public, your run away meter should spike well before you find yourself reloading IMHO, although - I've heard it generally recommended from some sources that I respect, than having an extra magazine is a good idea even though you're most likely never to need one., even if you do use your firearm in self defense. Carrying more ammo and mags than that is just carrying more, and you can, but for the vast majority of average people - serves no purpose.

 

[cmj8591]

Not withstanding this incident, the average number of shots fired in police shootouts is 3. The big take away from this is that 100 fast misses will never equal 1 slow center mass hit.

 

[BSA1]

Not withstanding this incident, the average number of shots fired in police shootouts is 3.

What is your source of information for this claim?

 

[murphydog]

According to FBI statistics, the number of shots fired in defensive encounters they were able to track was 3.5 to 5.5.

 

[JJEH]

In my opinion it depends on where you are and for how long.

There are some situations where I don't carry a spare. But those are just quick runs to the post office or gas station during the day.

If we travel or go outdoors I always carry spare magazines, most of the time I also take a second gun. And there will always be more in the vehicle.

I rather have it and don't need it than the other way around. You never know what you are facing until it faces you and you never know when help arrives!

 

[Rastoff]

I both agree and disagree, respectfully. Sometimes trouble finds you as you are living your life.

Correct, but we're not talking about just trouble here. We're talking about why one policeman carries 200 rounds of ammo. The particular situation that put him in this frame of mind would never have happened to any of us.

It happened specifically because of the policeman. No civilian would have pulled him over. Therefore, none of us would have ever ended up in this situation.

Does that mean we won't meet a determined assailant? No, but the circumstances won't meet the criteria in this situation.

 

[cmj8591]

What is your source of information for this claim?

US DOJ The actual number is something like 3.6 in shootings involving one officer with one assailant.

 

[Rosco Shooter]

I have one magazine in my pistol (17 rounds) and two magazines (2x17) on my belt. I hope that's enough.

 

[Lindy]

If you're a civilian in a non-urban area -- in reality you are most likely to need 1-4 rounds and a lawyer.

So I read recently....and my numbers might be off, but this was FBI data from 2017.

You have a .91% chance of ever using a firearm to defend yourself.

Something like 98% of perps run away if you just draw your CCW, not shoot it, just draw it.

If you actually shoot your gun in defense 98% of the time the gun fight is over in 3 rounds or less. There was a note that is even if you never hit the perp, because again they run away.

So this story is good reading and probably important info for a police officer in Chicago, chasing after a bad guy.