Dave T
Member
I am far from a 1917 expert but if I were in your position the choice would be easy. The issue 1917 is much more desirable to me than any Brazilian. No question, particularly since they are the same price. YMMV!
Dave
Dave
Let's see your U.S. Model 1917 S&Ws!
- Thread starter PALADIN85020
- Start date
M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
Thanks Dave, I'm thinking you may be right...I really didn't believe I'd find a non-Brazilian one in Germany. I check this dealer's website about once a week, they've had it about that long, I think, because I had not seen it before.
The 1917 should be wearing the same type smooth grips that are on the Brazilian. The gold medallion grips were on commercial S&Ws from about 1910 to 1920 and are worth a pretty penny all by themselves.
M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
Thanks Gil for the info about the grips. I figured they must have been put on later, because that M-1917 is definately military issue, didn't think those grips could be. However, the grips look old as well. I'm leaning pretty much toward that non-Brazilian model, emailed the dealer today.
The botes I have on hand here, indicate that the Serial Numbers do not make sense for the 1937 Contract Brazillian one to have a lower Number than the M1917 "U.S." Army" one does...nor does the "1920" date make sense for a 53-thousand Number, which would be 1918 mfg.
They made 163,000 of them between Sept 1917, and, Jan'y 1919.
Brazillian Models were supposedly starting at 181,983 - to 207,043, with an additional shipment occuring in the 207,196 - 207989 range in 1946...and some of those do seem to have been clean-up runs of unfinished US Army Models getting finished up for Brazil.
Of the two though, the M1917 US would be the one to have, and, the price you mention is not unreasonable, and is on par with what is usualy asked for those models in that condition over here in the States presently.
The Stocks seen on the "U.S." Model 1917 ion the image you have there, were Civillian ones, used from about 1910 - 1920, and, would tend to be more valuable than same condition Army Issue 'plain' Stocks associated with the M1917.
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M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
Thanks for the response Oyeboteb. Sorry for not explaining the photo numbers; those aren't serial numbers, they are only file numbers. The non-Brazilian serial number is 161580, but I don't know the serial number for the Brazilian model. The image shows the Brazilian stamp on the side plate, and you can tell that it has a military grade finish. I have to make a choice pretty quick, but everyone seems to agree that the M1917 "US" model is the better deal. I have requested it from the dealer, now all I have to do is get it on my license, which is quite an ordeal over here. Hopefully, I can post a photo of it in my actual possession in a month or so. The famed German bureaucracy is no joke!
Catshooter
Member
M2,
I'd go for the Brazilian. They are heat treated (at least in theory) and some have the square rear sight notch, which I prefer.
I don't think either gun has their correct grips. The 1920's grips (I think) are quite valuable.
$688 would be sort of high in the US for a Brazilian, it would be quite low for the 1920.
Good luck!
Cat
I'd go for the Brazilian. They are heat treated (at least in theory) and some have the square rear sight notch, which I prefer.
I don't think either gun has their correct grips. The 1920's grips (I think) are quite valuable.
$688 would be sort of high in the US for a Brazilian, it would be quite low for the 1920.
Good luck!
Cat
If I were in your position, I would elect the M1917 U.S. Army Model, and, pass on the Brazil Model.
The former is a more interesting and desireable Arm, which is also a genuine article of the First World War, and, is tacitly understood to have been more carefully made and fitted than were the latter 'Brazillian' Models...even though in theory, their quality ought to have been the same.
If timing and Lock up and Bore are good to very good or excellent, and the finish is the original S & W Blue, even if at 65 percent say, it is certainly well worth what you relay to be the asking price.
It the M1917 US Model were listed on 'Gunbroker', it would sell for what he is asking, or more.
The former is a more interesting and desireable Arm, which is also a genuine article of the First World War, and, is tacitly understood to have been more carefully made and fitted than were the latter 'Brazillian' Models...even though in theory, their quality ought to have been the same.
If timing and Lock up and Bore are good to very good or excellent, and the finish is the original S & W Blue, even if at 65 percent say, it is certainly well worth what you relay to be the asking price.
It the M1917 US Model were listed on 'Gunbroker', it would sell for what he is asking, or more.
Newbie. I have a brazillian made 1917 45 acp in good shape with no box and with only after market grips that I inherited 15 yrs ago. No photos but good shooter. What is a ballpark price for this revolver? Thank you kindly for any information in advance, I love this site!
Molon Labe Marcus
Molon Labe Marcus
M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
Thanks again, Oyeboteb, I think that's good advice. The dealer here gave me a description, and it sounds as though it is pretty good condition, 85% blue (original). The German gun dealers are normally pretty good and honest people; most Germans want new guns these days. This dealer specializes in used firearms, so they have a reputation to protect as well. Germans, like Americans, all want auto's these days, and so revolvers are pretty decent deals often. However, I was surprized to see this model, and am really curious to see if I can find out how it may have ended up here. However, the story may not be too exotic; American soldiers have been selling and trading their weapons with the Germans since we occupied it, so it may simply have been sold or even given to a German after WWII. The good news is that Germans are notorious for taking very good care of their weapons, which may have worked to my favor.
I contacted the dealer this morning and closed the deal. Sadly, it will take at least a month to get it on my license, and they can't send it to me until then, but at least I know it won't "get away".
Thanks for your help!
I contacted the dealer this morning and closed the deal. Sadly, it will take at least a month to get it on my license, and they can't send it to me until then, but at least I know it won't "get away".
Thanks for your help!
M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
Thanks, Catshooter, as you can see from above post, got the US model. I would get both, but unfortunately this on revolver now puts me at the legal limit for owning handguns (I have a 619 I bought last month). I'm thinking it will be an investment at this point. I'll get a decent picture of it up on this thread as soon as I get it in my grubby little hands. In the meantime, I'll just enjoy the view of all these excellent posts and pictures of other members 1917s and hope mine will look as good!
Hi M2MikeGolf,
Well done!
I am confident you will be very happy with it soon and from then on.
They are very fine Revolvers, and, especially interesting and practical for their particular type of Chambering and the use of the Moon Clips.
Finding one, and being able to afford one, which is in quite good and original condition, is certainly a very special event by my reconning.
The first Gun I ever shot, was my Dad's Model 1917 S & W, when I was eight.
I shot one handed, using WWII Surplus Ammo we would buy, in the 'brown' Box, for I think, $1.00 a Box.
This was like 1961, in Texas.
In retrospect, I am surprised I was able to manage it so well, and, for the report or recoil having not bothered me one bit.
Of course no one wore Ear Protection in those days.
I was a pale, dreamy, slender, small for my age, Book Worm of a Boy, and, I am glad my Dad took me out one day, ran me through the drill for Safety and inspection and protocols, and, let me fire a few dozen rounds.
I was a good student.
The M1917 of course will always remain for me, a very special Revolver.
I suppose you really ought to sell the new one, and, get a WWI production Colt Model of 1911 .45 Automatic, in order to be complete!
If they only allow you two Hand Guns, those two would be aweful hard to beat as a pair.
You would have to join the Colt Forum then, as well.
Lol...
Well done!
I am confident you will be very happy with it soon and from then on.
They are very fine Revolvers, and, especially interesting and practical for their particular type of Chambering and the use of the Moon Clips.
Finding one, and being able to afford one, which is in quite good and original condition, is certainly a very special event by my reconning.
The first Gun I ever shot, was my Dad's Model 1917 S & W, when I was eight.
I shot one handed, using WWII Surplus Ammo we would buy, in the 'brown' Box, for I think, $1.00 a Box.
This was like 1961, in Texas.
In retrospect, I am surprised I was able to manage it so well, and, for the report or recoil having not bothered me one bit.
Of course no one wore Ear Protection in those days.
I was a pale, dreamy, slender, small for my age, Book Worm of a Boy, and, I am glad my Dad took me out one day, ran me through the drill for Safety and inspection and protocols, and, let me fire a few dozen rounds.
I was a good student.
The M1917 of course will always remain for me, a very special Revolver.
I suppose you really ought to sell the new one, and, get a WWI production Colt Model of 1911 .45 Automatic, in order to be complete!
If they only allow you two Hand Guns, those two would be aweful hard to beat as a pair.
You would have to join the Colt Forum then, as well.
Lol...
"I have a brazillian made 1917 45 acp in good shape with no box and with only after market grips that I inherited 15 yrs ago. No photos but good shooter. What is a ballpark price for this revolver? Thank you kindly for any information in advance, I love this site!"
Welcome to the Forum.
Your revolver was made for the Brazilian military by Smith & Wesson in Springfield, Mass. There were two contracts, one in 1937 and another in 1946. The 1937 built revolvers were made new with flat top frames, while the 1946 revolvers were built on WW I era frames with the round top frames.
Price depends on condition. If you can post pictures, that would be a great help in determining value.
Most of us tend to hang onto inherited guns. They are a link to your past and perhaps your family as well.
Welcome to the Forum.
Your revolver was made for the Brazilian military by Smith & Wesson in Springfield, Mass. There were two contracts, one in 1937 and another in 1946. The 1937 built revolvers were made new with flat top frames, while the 1946 revolvers were built on WW I era frames with the round top frames.
Price depends on condition. If you can post pictures, that would be a great help in determining value.
Most of us tend to hang onto inherited guns. They are a link to your past and perhaps your family as well.
M2MikeGolf
US Veteran
Oyebotob,
Thanks for your vote of confidence. I notice most of us have some story of when we were a child that started us on the path of responsible firearm ownership and shooting. Both my grandfathers were retired soldiers like myself and both loved and were deeply knowledgeable. My mother's father was in WWI and WWII and once explained to me, with a hand drawn illustration on how an M1911 worked and then explained the difference of the 1911 and 1911A1. My father's father served in WWII and brought back a collection of German issue weapons, which included his non-government issued "Government Model" Colt .45 ACP. It's a prized possession, and I do not have it here in Germany as I consider it irreplaceble. The German authorities may seize ones weapons for little reason, so safely stored in Texas it stays, along with a variety of P.08s, P-38s, Colts, Walthers, etc. It's too difficult to buy firearms in the US and bring them over here, lots of paperwork, expense and an added exportation exercise. When I return to the states, I will have my M1917 and my 1934 built Colt government, carried by my grandfather in WWII, so that will have to do for my "matched set"! Thanks again for your advice, hope to join the M1917 "shooters club" within the month! Pictures for this thread to come! By the way, have you posted pics of yours?
Mustang, that's a great one you've got along with that pristine P.17!
Thanks for your vote of confidence. I notice most of us have some story of when we were a child that started us on the path of responsible firearm ownership and shooting. Both my grandfathers were retired soldiers like myself and both loved and were deeply knowledgeable. My mother's father was in WWI and WWII and once explained to me, with a hand drawn illustration on how an M1911 worked and then explained the difference of the 1911 and 1911A1. My father's father served in WWII and brought back a collection of German issue weapons, which included his non-government issued "Government Model" Colt .45 ACP. It's a prized possession, and I do not have it here in Germany as I consider it irreplaceble. The German authorities may seize ones weapons for little reason, so safely stored in Texas it stays, along with a variety of P.08s, P-38s, Colts, Walthers, etc. It's too difficult to buy firearms in the US and bring them over here, lots of paperwork, expense and an added exportation exercise. When I return to the states, I will have my M1917 and my 1934 built Colt government, carried by my grandfather in WWII, so that will have to do for my "matched set"! Thanks again for your advice, hope to join the M1917 "shooters club" within the month! Pictures for this thread to come! By the way, have you posted pics of yours?
Mustang, that's a great one you've got along with that pristine P.17!
Thanks! Strangely, I've never been able to put together a decent group with this gun, as opposed to my very beaten-up Brazilian, which shoots like a champ.
Hi M2MikeGolf,
Nice to hear you have other Treasures safely secured in Texas.
What's left of Europe and the former UK have been in quite the protracted stuggle to retain much for rights or practical priveldge as far as firearms ownership and SD goes, as you must well know.
My Heart goes out to them.
Post No. 115
My only two are old War Horses with low Blue...both of which I acquired only recently.
The Long Barrel one is unusual, and, appears to be an able Gun Smith or maybe an S&W Factory re-Barrel using a no-calibre-stamp 2nd Mdl HE Barrel who's patents end in 1906.
It is a fine shooter and excellent timing and lock up.
My 'Bulged Barrel' one I bought cheap because I felt sorry for it, and, figured I would eventually round up a different Bulged Barrel, where the bulge is farther out, and, cut that Barrel down to as short as ( shortening ) the Ejector Rod Lug will allow, re-fit the Original Sight, Bob the Hammer, whittle out some nubby Stag Stocks, overhaul the worn and loose mechanism, and, have something of a charming, old War Horse, low Blue and lovable .45 ACP 'Snubby'...Home-Loads of 230 Grain full flat front Wadcutters over a full house charge of 'Unique', which, as a mid life City Boy, is egg-zactly what I would have done for Trouser Pocket Carry, if this was 1920, 1930, 1940 or any time since anyway.
I have been seeking medium to medium high condition one for a long time, and, have not taken the plunge yet...possibly because I am especially fascinated by the very earliest version, which had the concentric Mill Mark lines on the Hammer sides ( as my Long Barrel one does, being Serial No. 12,000-ish )...and, those are scarce for having been only maybe 8 percent or so of the production, if valued no different though.
Wish me luck!
Nice to hear you have other Treasures safely secured in Texas.
What's left of Europe and the former UK have been in quite the protracted stuggle to retain much for rights or practical priveldge as far as firearms ownership and SD goes, as you must well know.
My Heart goes out to them.
Post No. 115
My only two are old War Horses with low Blue...both of which I acquired only recently.
The Long Barrel one is unusual, and, appears to be an able Gun Smith or maybe an S&W Factory re-Barrel using a no-calibre-stamp 2nd Mdl HE Barrel who's patents end in 1906.
It is a fine shooter and excellent timing and lock up.
My 'Bulged Barrel' one I bought cheap because I felt sorry for it, and, figured I would eventually round up a different Bulged Barrel, where the bulge is farther out, and, cut that Barrel down to as short as ( shortening ) the Ejector Rod Lug will allow, re-fit the Original Sight, Bob the Hammer, whittle out some nubby Stag Stocks, overhaul the worn and loose mechanism, and, have something of a charming, old War Horse, low Blue and lovable .45 ACP 'Snubby'...Home-Loads of 230 Grain full flat front Wadcutters over a full house charge of 'Unique', which, as a mid life City Boy, is egg-zactly what I would have done for Trouser Pocket Carry, if this was 1920, 1930, 1940 or any time since anyway.
I have been seeking medium to medium high condition one for a long time, and, have not taken the plunge yet...possibly because I am especially fascinated by the very earliest version, which had the concentric Mill Mark lines on the Hammer sides ( as my Long Barrel one does, being Serial No. 12,000-ish )...and, those are scarce for having been only maybe 8 percent or so of the production, if valued no different though.
Wish me luck!
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phenson
US Veteran
I've had this one for a long time. Think I got it for $300.00. The barrel is ringed and it has been through the wringer as well, but it still shoots pretty well. Was shipped fall of 1918. I used to carry this when on horseback and not worry about scratching it too much.
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