Letter Arrived .44 Hand Ejector 2nd Model with Pearl Handles

[shown50]

Been awhile since I've been on here but have a question about a gun I just picked up. As far as I can tell it's a .44 Hand Ejector 2nd Model, probably made before 1931, in .44 special. It's got target sights and is Nickel, the hammer is serrated and wider on the left side than the right with Reg.US.Pat.OFF. on the back of it. Trigger is vertically grooved. Rear sight has two screws on the top strap. Made in USA on the right side, small S&W logo on the left serial 363xx. My question is about the grips, I've never seen factory grips like that and there's not anything penciled on them like my other premodels. I've seen some of these models online with similar grips but they aren't listed in my Standard Catalog so I'm assuming they're aftermarket. I'll probably send off for a letter since I have a bicycle gun I want to get one on as well but figured I'd ask here first.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Well, a couple of things I see:

1. If it was made before 1931, it had to be 1929 or 1930 because the mushroom extractor rod knob went away in 1928. What's the serial number?
2. It appears to be plated outside the factory since the front and rear sight blades look to be plated and I don't think the factory ever did that.
3. We need sot see some closeups of the grips. They appear to be factory to me due to the medallions but I don't recall ever seeing factory N frame pearls. I seem to recall that S&W quit making pearls before 1930. But an expert needs to weigh in on that.

 

[shown50]

Here's a couple more pictures it looks factory finish to me since the logo and lettering is clear and defined but a letter will tell for sure serial is 363xx.

 

[DARE]

Those look like service stocks. Wood grips from 1931 had large silver medallions. S&W sold pearl grips on guns. Not sure what the medallions would have been in 1931. Other folks sold pearl grips and could acquire S&W medallions.
A letter would tell you for sure.
Here is my gun from 1926 with correct for that time grips. Large silver medallions started in 1929.

 

[shown50]

I've never seen this mark either it's under the barrel, there's also a W above where a model would be stamped.

 

[shown50]

Those look like service stocks. Wood grips from 1931 had large silver medallions. S&W sold pearl grips on guns. Not sure what the medallions would have been in 1931. Other folks sold pearl grips and could acquire S&W medallions.
A letter would tell you for sure.
Here is my gun from 1926 with correct for that time grips. Large silver medallions started in 1929.

That's a nice gun, I've never shot a .44 special how's it compare to magnum or .357?

 

[Wiregrassguy]

The S<> indicates a barrel replacement at the factory. There is no serial number on the barrel which is unusual. S&W typically stamped the frame serial on a replaced barrel. I suppose it is possible it was reworked at the factory. Is there a service date stamped on the left side toe of the grip frame and a star next to the serial? The service date would be vertical in MM.YY format.

 

[shown50]

The S<> indicates a barrel replacement at the factory. There is no serial number on the barrel which is unusual. S&W typically stamped the frame serial on a replaced barrel. I suppose it is possible it was reworked at the factory. Is there a service date stamped on the left side toe of the grip frame and a star next to the serial? The service date would be vertical in MM.YY format.

This is all that I see, it's kinda hard to photograph. Going clockwise starting at the top L, What looks like a B, 8,8 around the nib for the grip.

 

[shown50]

There appears to be an X on the left side very tiny

 

[Wiregrassguy]

The letters and numbers are fitter and/or inspector marks. There appears to be a small star on the toe of the left side but no service date. Can you take a close up of the toe and also post a picture of the bottom of the frame with the serial number?

 

[DARE]

To me, recoil on my .44 Special is about like .38 Special in a K frame. Definitely less than .357 Magnum, and way less than .44 Magnum.

 

[shown50]

The letters and numbers are fitter and/or inspector marks. There appears to be a small star on the toe of the left side but no service date. Can you take a close up of the toe and also post a picture of the bottom of the frame with the serial number?

I'm not sure what the toe is? I cleaned some of the grease off and can't find any stars. It's looks like an X. Here's a picture of the bottom

 

[rct269]

I'm told the S<> on the barrel is a factory service mark translating to the gun is to be returned to the Service Department following the refinish. Given that as fact---and given the sights are finished in nickel, a second puzzle arises.

1. I'm entirely comfortable in stating the factory (and nobody else in their right mind) would ever plate the sights. Given that, it would appear the gun was refinished the first time by the factory in whatever the original was, and----------

2. Given the plated sights, it was either refinished a second time in nickel by someone else (who also plated the sights), or someone, somewhere else, plated the sights all by themselves---which fair boggles the mind!!

There was no Model Number stamped anywhere before whenever the (REALLY IRRITATING) model numbers came into vogue (1958?)--------which was LOOOOOOOOOOOONG after this gun was made----the last .44 2nd Targets having been shipped from the factory as a close-out deal (39 .44 2nd Targets having been shipped on May 14, 1940----and billed at $17 each)----allowing maybe $1 profit on each gun. I'll hazard a guess the W is an inspector's mark----never mind I've never seen such anywhere besides the grip frame.

Another puzzle concerns the lack of anything else besides the S<> being stamped on the barrel flat--------which normally contains the serial number. Given the lack thereof, my knee-jerk reaction is the barrel was replaced by the Service Department at some point in time----very likely when the S<> mark was stamped.

Ralph Tremaine

Edited to add: It occurs to me it's possible (but unlikely) only the replacement barrel was refinished (in nickel). The proof of the pudding is to be found (more than likely) on the grip frame---where there may (or may not) be found factory service/refinish marks (and a date stamp---one or more). So---how 'bout a close-up picture of the grip frame---left side for sure---both sides--- just to cover our bets.

 

[shown50]

I'm told the S<> on the barrel is a factory service mark translating to the gun is to be returned to the Service Department following the refinish. Given that as fact---and given the sights are finished in nickel, a second puzzle arises.

1. I'm entirely comfortable in stating the factory (and nobody else in their right mind) would ever plate the sights. Given that, it would appear the gun was refinished the first time by the factory---in whatever Standard finish was, and----------

2. Given the plated sights, it was either refinished a second time in nickel by someone else (who also plated the sights), or someone, somewhere else, plated the sights all by themselves---which fair boggles the mind!!

There was no Model Number stamped anywhere before whenever the (REALLY IRRITATING) model numbers came into vogue--------which was LOOOOOOOOOOOONG after this gun was made----the last .44 2nds having been shipped from the factory as a close-out deal (39 .44 2nd Targets having been shipped on May 14, 1940----and billed at $17 each)----allowing maybe $1 profit on each gun. I'll hazard a guess the W is an inspector's mark----never mind I've never seen such anywhere besides the grip frame.

Another puzzle concerns the lack of anything else besides the S<> being stamped on the barrel flat--------which normally contains the serial number. Given the lack thereof, my knee-jerk reaction is the barrel was replaced by the Service Department at some point in time----very likely when the S<> mark was stamped.

Ralph Tremaine

This is way out of my wheel house tbh. I bought 3 out of a collection of 24 and going back to buy some more in a couple weeks. The other two I bought are what I believe to be a a square butt premodel 10 snub nose(serial 3609xx with dark smooth grips with medallions) and a 1905 M&P 4th model square butt(serial 33434x no S&w or made in USA on frame)

 

[rct269]

The Made In USA mark came along sometime in/around the 1920's. There are those in attendance here who can tell us exactly when, since such minutiae falls outside my areas of interest.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[wordsmith]

Re: the .44 Target - as a couple of members have already mentioned, S&W did not nickel plate the sights, front or rear, in this time period. Nickel target front sight blades first appeared in 1958 on a few of the K-frame models. It's a very cool gun but has been reworked, at least partially at the factory.

The 2" M&P, if the serial number you posted is correct, has also had a barrel change, as no 2" versions were offered until the high 590,000 s/n range, in the early 1930's. The grips on it are from, at the earliest, the 1950's, the 1970's at the latest.

David

 

[Modified]

It wouldn't surprise me if the service department put the sights on, but I would need a shot of the rear sight, top down, to provide a firmer opinion.

Also a shot of the modified hammer (top down again) which appears to be a King style Cockeyed job. It's unclear to me if the factory did this job, I've heard tales that they have but not seen proof of it personally. Although I am sure they would have done so had you paid them. In any case, the hammer job was fairly diagnostic of the shop that did the work. Everyone clearly had their method of doing this, and they (mostly) stuck with what worked for them.

The gun is undoubtedly non-factory re-finished. For reasons mentioned before, but also if you look at the sideplate you can see that it was buffed after being removed from the gun, causing some dishing. Even if the re-finisher hadn't nickeled the rear / front sights it would be a pretty clear re-finish.

Very cool gun, people sometimes get hung up on originality, or on who did work, but in the end the best part about modified guns is that they are all basically unique, and are subjective. So if you like it, awesome. If something bugs you about it, sell it to someone who loves it and find another modified gun you do love.

Edit: I was a long time in typing that because of children being distracting, just saw the post with the rear view of this gun:

That is not a factory rear sight job. Just based on the screw sizes (huge, only 2).

The hammer has a bit of a King aspect but its sort of out of focus. The most interesting thing I can see in this photo is that there *may* be some text along the back of the hammer?

Side note:

This is a great example of a gun with a non-factory refinish where the sideplate was removed. Looks similar to the nickel job on the 44. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a collection if the owner had a re-finisher.

 

[shown50]

Thanks for the info I took some more pics, also attached some of the snub nose under the grips. Modified guns don't bother me if they're done well, I got a good deal on them probably gonna pick up some .44 special ammo and see what it's like. The action is smooth as butter on it.

 

[shown50]

Here's a photo I took when we were talking this is what's left of his prelock collection all the unfired/boxed stuff was sold a few years ago.

 

[shown50]

It wouldn't surprise me if the service department put the sights on, but I would need a shot of the rear sight, top down, to provide a firmer opinion.

Also a shot of the modified hammer (top down again) which appears to be a King style Cockeyed job. It's unclear to me if the factory did this job, I've heard tales that they have but not seen proof of it personally. Although I am sure they would have done so had you paid them. In any case, the hammer job was fairly diagnostic of the shop that did the work. Everyone clearly had their method of doing this, and they (mostly) stuck with what worked for them.

The gun is undoubtedly non-factory re-finished. For reasons mentioned before, but also if you look at the sideplate you can see that it was buffed after being removed from the gun, causing some dishing. Even if the re-finisher hadn't nickeled the rear / front sights it would be a pretty clear re-finish.

Very cool gun, people sometimes get hung up on originality, or on who did work, but in the end the best part about modified guns is that they are all basically unique, and are subjective. So if you like it, awesome. If something bugs you about it, sell it to someone who loves it and find another modified gun you do love.

Edit: I was a long time in typing that because of children being distracting, just saw the post with the rear view of this gun:

That is not a factory rear sight job. Just based on the screw sizes (huge, only 2).

The hammer has a bit of a King aspect but its sort of out of focus. The most interesting thing I can see in this photo is that there *may* be some text along the back of the hammer?

Side note:

This is a great example of a gun with a non-factory refinish where the sideplate was removed. Looks similar to the nickel job on the 44. I wouldn't be surprised if this was a collection if the owner had a re-finisher.

The back of the hammer is stamped REG.US.PAT.OFF.