I have been told that if a gun was ordered through smith in nickel, sometimes they would take a blued gun and re finish in nickel. they would even restamp b-n or a star. would this gun letter as blued-nickel-refinish-other?.i just saw a gun that was not offered in nickel but has a star. I am thinking of buying this gun and taking a chance that it may have been ordered that way not sent back( because of other rare features). if it lettered nickel it may be one of a kind. if not i will have paid way too much for a renickel...thanks
LETTERING A ORDERED GUN
- Thread starter paplinker
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dacoontz
Member
Depending on the age of the gun, if it was factory renickeled after being sent back to the factory than it will likely be marked R-N. If it never left the factory and was changed from a blued gun to a nickeled gun before being sold then it won't have that R-N. That's one way to eliminate a possible scenario. I would think that the factory would stamp the gun with an N if it left the factory that way even if having originally been a blued gun.
OP
so you think they would have ground off the original b stamp before nickel was applied? this has a star .i didn't want to ask too many ques to seller or else gun could go through roof for me
It is unlikely the factory would have removed the B, they likely would have overstamped it with the star or the four-digit month/date code. The star indicates a factory rework, but not always a refinish. Lastly, a factory letter will not have information after shipping as a rule, including refinishing or repairs.
linde
US Veteran
It's my understanding (doesn't mean it's a fact) that the * means it was returned to the factory at some later date.
Obviously a change in finish . . . even if done by the factory . . . doesn't justify the value of a one-of-a-kind factory original finish. However, there are various opinions on how much the value will be affected by a factory re-work . . . value is always in the eye of the beholder. If the gun has original or factory-added desirable features, I wouldn't hesitate to make a serious offer.
For what it's worth, here's a case in point . . . I have a 45 Hand Ejector Model 1917 Commercial that originally shipped in 1926. In July 1949 it was returned to the factory and outfitted with target sights and re-chambered in 45 Colt . . . with the * added on the butt next to the s/n. I paid more for it than a standard 1917 in the same condition . . . and I suspect others would as well.
Best wishes,
Russ
Art Doc
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"I have been told that if a gun was ordered through smith in nickel, sometimes they would take a blued gun and re finish in nickel. "
I cannot even IMAGINE that happening. Any change in original finish would be due to a customer returning it for such work. If the gun has a star it was returned for refinishing.
I cannot even IMAGINE that happening. Any change in original finish would be due to a customer returning it for such work. If the gun has a star it was returned for refinishing.
Maybe.. (in both cases). But unless you have the workorder from the S&W Historical Foundation, you can't be sure that that's what the "*" and date indicates.
I've seen a gun with three different "rework" dates and I'm sure they weren't all refinishes or conversions.
linde
US Veteran
True statement. In my 1917 example, I definitely made the assumption that all the re-work was done at the same time. Am anxiously awaiting the digitization of the post-WWII records by the SWHF to confirm. Thanks for the clarification!
Russ
Muley Gil
US Veteran
"I cannot even IMAGINE that happening. Any change in original finish would be due to a customer returning it for such work."
SP, while I can't point to a thread right now, I have read several posts where folks have owned Smiths that have started out in one finish and then shipped in another. Maybe Doc44 can pull up one for us.
Think about it. The factory would make runs of say, K frames, for several months. A customer orders a nickel M29 8 3/8". The factory doesn't have a nickel one in stock, but does have a blue one. Rather than lose a customer, the factory takes the blue one, nickels it, and then ships it.
SP, while I can't point to a thread right now, I have read several posts where folks have owned Smiths that have started out in one finish and then shipped in another. Maybe Doc44 can pull up one for us.
Think about it. The factory would make runs of say, K frames, for several months. A customer orders a nickel M29 8 3/8". The factory doesn't have a nickel one in stock, but does have a blue one. Rather than lose a customer, the factory takes the blue one, nickels it, and then ships it.
JSR III
SWCA Member Absent Comrade
I believe that I have heard Roy state in the past that the factory would take a blue gun and refinish it in nickle if there was not one in stock and a customer ordered a nickle gun. This would not require a change or mark as the gun was originally shipped in nickle. The rework stars were added by the service department which IIRC is a different department than the one that handles new shipments.
I have a 22/32 heavy frame target that has a rework star and I believe that it was sent back to have a new cylinder added with the recessed chambers. That feature was not available, according to my guns serial number< at the time mune was produced, however, some later owner wanted the new and improved version. FWIW
I have a 22/32 heavy frame target that has a rework star and I believe that it was sent back to have a new cylinder added with the recessed chambers. That feature was not available, according to my guns serial number< at the time mune was produced, however, some later owner wanted the new and improved version. FWIW
handejector
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We know of a VERY few guns that were blue originally, and nickeled to fill a special order. They do NOT have a star. Some do not have an N.
If they do remark a finished gun, they simply stamp an N over the B.
The gun you are looking at is merely a factory refinish most likely, and not worth big bucks.
Tell us more about it.
An Example on Hand
Many of you have seen these photos, but I think that they are spot on to show what the factory, at least occasionally, did. Below are a few photos of a gun that was originally "stamped" to be blued (I have no idea if it was ever actually blued), but left the factory as a nickel gun. It is a pre-war 357 non reg mag:
Over-stamp of "N" over "B" NO STAR:
Ground off "B" near the rod knob cutout of the ejector rod shroud:
Factory letter, attesting to it leaving the factory as a nickel gun:
Photo of complete gun (just because...)
:
Many of you have seen these photos, but I think that they are spot on to show what the factory, at least occasionally, did. Below are a few photos of a gun that was originally "stamped" to be blued (I have no idea if it was ever actually blued), but left the factory as a nickel gun. It is a pre-war 357 non reg mag:
Over-stamp of "N" over "B" NO STAR:
Ground off "B" near the rod knob cutout of the ejector rod shroud:
Factory letter, attesting to it leaving the factory as a nickel gun:
Photo of complete gun (just because...)
:
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I believe that someone here has posted a nickel Model 53 that was built in blue but finished again in nickel at the factory before being sold and shipped.
I forget how they new this.
I forget how they new this.
Armyphotog
Member
Wow! What a beautiful nickel job! Any idea how it stayed so pristine. I thought all nickel kind of "frosted" after a lot of years.
Hondo44
Member
IMO frosting is due to exposure and tarnishing. A well stored nickel gun can look like new. Many nickel guns have a maze of hairline scratches due to handling, holsters, etc. which dull the finish, not to be confused with frosting however, and can usually be polished out carefully with semi-chrome or Flitz.
Art Doc
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I guess I need this in my signature line.
As always, special orders for VIPs could result in any feature or combination of features. But I do not include such SOs when the discussion is general in nature because they are so very few and are the exception rather than the rule. I go back to my extreme example. Exactly one "Registered Magnum" was built in 22 Long Rifle caliber. Should we forever note in any discussion of the RM that it was available in 22 LR?
In this case changing the finish on a gun would be a gross waste of money and as we all hear over and over S&Ws was in business to make money and they never wasted anything (like outdated boxes, old style parts, etc.) so it would be crazy to do it. But again, when some "heavy hitter" didn't want to wait for his gun or he wants some weird feature they made it for him and the cost be damned.
As always, special orders for VIPs could result in any feature or combination of features. But I do not include such SOs when the discussion is general in nature because they are so very few and are the exception rather than the rule. I go back to my extreme example. Exactly one "Registered Magnum" was built in 22 Long Rifle caliber. Should we forever note in any discussion of the RM that it was available in 22 LR?
In this case changing the finish on a gun would be a gross waste of money and as we all hear over and over S&Ws was in business to make money and they never wasted anything (like outdated boxes, old style parts, etc.) so it would be crazy to do it. But again, when some "heavy hitter" didn't want to wait for his gun or he wants some weird feature they made it for him and the cost be damned.
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