Letting slide slam shut on empty chamber

[Bkreutz]

Really? There were 3 SO's for our squad for that match. I used my left hand to close the slide gently for 4 of the 5 stages. None of the SO's had a problem with that.

The "slide forward" command doesn't specify how the slide is let forward, it's up to the shooter. Typically the "unload and show clear command is given with a mag in the gun and a round in the chamber (unless you're at slide lock). I drop the mag and put it in my pocket, rack the slide to eject the round, hold the slide open so the RO can see the empty chamber, and when he says "if clear, hammer down, holster" I let the slide go forward (not from slide lock), point the gun at a target and pull the trigger to let the hammer (or striker) fall. Then holster. There is no "slide forward" command in USPSA.

8.3.6 “If You Are Finished, Unload And Show Clear” or “Unload and Show Clear” – If the competitor has finished shooting, he must lower his handgun and present it for inspection by the Range Officer with the muzzle pointed down range, magazine removed, slide locked or held open, and chamber empty. Revolvers must be presented with the cylinder swung out and empty.

8.3.7 “If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster” or “If Clear, Cylinder Closed, Holster” for revolvers only – After issuance of this command, the competitor is prohibited from firing (see Rule 10.4.3). While continuing to point the handgun safely downrange, the competitor must perform a final safety check of the handgun as follows:
8.3.7.1 Self-loaders – release the slide and pull the trigger (without touching the hammer or decocker, if any).
8.3.7.2 Revolvers – close the empty cylinder (without touching the hammer, if any).
8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his handgun.
8.3.7.4 If the gun does not prove to be clear, the Range Officer will resume the commands from Rule 8.3.6 (also see Rule 10.4.3).

 

[Rastoff]

On 1911's, it is forbidden to hit the slide release with an empty magazine and chamber, as is dry firing.

Yeah, that's what "they" say isn't it? However, it's not true.

First let's talk about dry practice. Pressing the trigger on an empty chamber will not harm a modern center fire firearm; any modern center fire firearm. I have one 1911 with 8K rounds through it. I generally do a lot of dry practice. In fact, I do about 20:1 dry to live. That means I have over 160,000 dry presses with that one 1911 alone. It has not experienced a single malfunction due to dry practice.

Second, dropping the slide on an empty chamber. If you want to baby your guns, I won't stop you. The whole concept of the sear and hammer banging together thus ruining a fine tuned set up, has been debunked many times. This won't harm your gun either. Of course there's the, "Loading a round from the mag will buffer the action..." guys. Well, until someone can produce some actual numbers showing how much lighter loading a round is vs not, I'll call bull on that as well.

If the gun is good for, say 100K rounds, and letting the slide slam home reduces that to 20K,...

I'm not sure where you got these numbers, but they are wrong. Your gun should last far beyond the 100K mark and dropping the slide won't reduce that number any. However, it's your gun. Treat it as you like. I wouldn't ridicule you for easing it forward when there's no round being chambered.

When at a match, like you described, just put the mag and round in your pocket. Then operate the slide as you see fit. It will only take a couple seconds longer; they'll wait.

A mil-spec 1911A1 is not supposed to be dry fired. The other variants... I don't know.

Wrong. See above.

My suggestion: do it on your own pistols if you choose, but not with a pistol that does not belong to you.

I agree with this. I have pistols that cost more than your "target" guns, but I use them for defensive shooting. Even so, I would expect anyone other than me to treat them with respect.

People say, "When you borrow something, treat it as though it were your own." I say, "If you borrow something, treat it as though it were theirs. Be more careful than if it were your own."

As an instructor, I handle other people's guns all the time. I would never disrespect them or their property by handling their gun poorly. Therefore, I will not take a dry press without permission and I won't drop the slide on an empty chamber; even if they say it's OK. Treat others with respect first. That's how you gain respect yourself.

 

[Saudade]

Wait, we're not going to argue that it's a slide lock not a release?

 

[moxie]

IMO, the best way to rack a slide is cupping the top rear of the slide with your weak hand, drawing the slide smartly back and releasing it at the end of its travel. All while keeping the gun pointed straight downrange. This applies whether the slide is locked back or not. I never use the slide stop lever. Nor do I "slingshot", pinching the rear of the slide between my thumb and index finger. This is an awkward maneuver and easily results in pointing the gun off to the side. Your neighbors dislike that.

This results in the slide slamming home pretty hard. But it has never been a problem with the M&P. Or the Glock. I often rack that slide hard and dry fire, many dozens or hundreds of times for practice. I've not noticed any problems so far. If anything, the guns run smoother.

I use this method for dry fire practice, as it simulates what I would do with the loaded pistol.

Colt recommends in its owners manuals that 1911s be function checked after disassembly/reassembly by dry firing. Many experts recommend using snap caps for extended practice.

Some older guns, e.g. Star PD, specifically recommend against dry firing without snap caps, at all. The reasoning is that dry firing without snap caps "can" break the firing pin.

 

[okiegtrider]

Wait, we're not going to argue that it's a slide lock not a release?

Let's start that new thread!

 

[cracker57]

I was taught, there for teach to never let it slam home on an empty chamber. I have had a few in my classes that have said I wish I had know that before I broke my gun by doing exactly that.
Whats nice about having your own gun, you get to treat it anyway you want. Carry on

 

[Caliper]

I have had a few in my classes that have said I wish I had know that before I broke my gun by doing exactly that.

What broke in their gun due to letting the slide slam home?

 

[fire4606]

What Rastoff said..........

 

[wormraper]

agreeing with Rastoff big time. no dry firing a 1911 lol... And the idea that dropping the slide does ANY more damage than under fire is simply ridiculous and been proven wrong by military armorers a dozen times over. in the service we were REQUIRED to drop the slide on an empty chamber as part of our inspection of guns and it was usually repeated 4 or 5 times. somehow those guns have survived decades

 

[Granite Stater]

Never ride the hammer down on a 1911, dry fire it on an empty chamber. This is basic 101 for the 1911.

 

[cracker57]

Caliper,
I honestly never asked anyone what it was that broke.

 

[JcMack]

On 1911's that I own I never drop the slide on an empty chamber. That's mainly because of training I received many, many moons ago. However a 1911 with quality parts in it shouldn't have sears chipped and or hammer/sear mating surfaces damaged by "dropping the slide on an empty chamber". I'm a guy that doesn't mind a little trigger creep and a 5lb trigger pull. I'm pretty sure the 1911 was designed to hold open on the last shot and a new magazine inserted and the slide slingshoted to load the empty chamber. If your under duress and can press the slide release to reload the gun that's the choice to take. I'm relately new to striker fired guns. I've had my Glocks apart and still can't figure out how they work. Kahr instructions demand that in order to insure postive chambering of the first round of a newly inserted magazine you must press the release to drop the slide. Dry firing a Colt DA revolver with a frame mounted FP revolver without snap caps will eventually break the FP or bushing. s&w's with the same setup I guess you can dry fire with no problems. I always use snap caps. It's just a habit.

 

[ggibson511960]

Tribal Knowledge Myths

There is certainly nothing wrong with easing a slide of any automatic down on an empty chamber, but some of the assertions on this thread are without basis in fact. The fear that one might damage a trigger sear by doing this is nonsense. The hammer sear face of a 1911 lands on the sear face every time you shoot it. The disconnector won't let the sear move when the slide is out of battery. When the slide moves forward the hammer only rotates a short segment of arc before being caught by the sear. This happens before the slide encounters a fresh cartridge to be stripped from the magazine, so it doesn't matter to the sear if the gun is loaded or empty. There are excellent cutaway animations on YouTube that illustrate the operation of this mechanism. Better to study and understand these than recount old mytholology without basis.

 

[old&slow]

I never let the slide slam on a empty chamber..

In USPSA,, I ride the slide down,, point the firearm at the back stop ,, and pull the trigger,, dry firing the firearm.
( I see some folks point the firearm at the ground a few feet in front of them,, Not a good practice..
,, if it ever goes Bang ,, someone might have an AD in their drawers )

RO's want to see the hammer drop on an empty chamber. Not ride the hammer down.

 

[growr]

The "slide forward" command doesn't specify how the slide is let forward, it's up to the shooter. Typically the "unload and show clear command is given with a mag in the gun and a round in the chamber (unless you're at slide lock). I drop the mag and put it in my pocket, rack the slide to eject the round, hold the slide open so the RO can see the empty chamber, and when he says "if clear, hammer down, holster" I let the slide go forward (not from slide lock), point the gun at a target and pull the trigger to let the hammer (or striker) fall. Then holster. There is no "slide forward" command in USPSA.

8.3.6 “If You Are Finished, Unload And Show Clear” or “Unload and Show Clear” – If the competitor has finished shooting, he must lower his handgun and present it for inspection by the Range Officer with the muzzle pointed down range, magazine removed, slide locked or held open, and chamber empty. Revolvers must be presented with the cylinder swung out and empty.

8.3.7 “If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster” or “If Clear, Cylinder Closed, Holster” for revolvers only – After issuance of this command, the competitor is prohibited from firing (see Rule 10.4.3). While continuing to point the handgun safely downrange, the competitor must perform a final safety check of the handgun as follows:
8.3.7.1 Self-loaders – release the slide and pull the trigger (without touching the hammer or decocker, if any).
8.3.7.2 Revolvers – close the empty cylinder (without touching the hammer, if any).
8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his handgun.
8.3.7.4 If the gun does not prove to be clear, the Range Officer will resume the commands from Rule 8.3.6 (also see Rule 10.4.3).

Absolutely correct!

I have not shot USPSA or RO'd in three years, I paraphrased the commands which are stated in 8.3.6 & 8.3.7.

My apologies for my error. I should have looked it up instead of going from memory.....

Randy

 

[McE]

As for during competition to clear

Drop mag
Rack to eject live round, showing RO that round has been ejected>> Hold slide open to show clear
Release or ease slide forward, point downrange, pull trigger

It sounds like some people lift the slide lock to show clear, then drop the slide lock to drop the slide?

 

[Deadctr]

All I can say is the slide lock on my FNS9 is stiff as a board. I couldn't drop the slide with the release if someone paid me.

 

[paragain]

After forty years of shooting the 1911 i have always dropped the slide while holding the trigger to the rearmost position. This keeps the sear and the trigger hooks from ripping each other and puts them in a natural position as if you were firing a load. Better on the hooks and sear.

 

[M29since14]

I'm with paragain. If you let the slide slam shut on my 1911 you are going to at least get a "Hey! Please don't do that!" - and maybe something worse.

 

[SmithMarine]

A mil-spec 1911A1 is not supposed to be dry fired. The other variants... I don't know.

This would probably be news to the thousands of Marines we trained on 1911s who practiced dry firing at targets prior to Qualification Day to practice holding steady and squeezing the trigger. Wanna guess how many hundreds of thousands "dry firings" those GI 1911s went through? How do these fairy tales start?