Lever Gun Advice

[Snapping Twig]

I've A/B'd quite a few rounds through a chronograph with a handgun and then the same load through a carbine and have personally not found this to be the case - an additional 600 fps without increasing the load is quite a bit. I have seen over 250 fps gain on such but not the numbers you cite.



That we can agree on. You can load a 44 mag for carbine I would not want to shoot in my 29's.

FWIW, I've never bought a factory load for my firearms - save for .22lr.

My experience is that fast powder loads gain little to nothing from a lever gun, but slow powders do. In a revolver lead moves 50 to 100fps faster than the same charge and bullet weight than jacketed. All I shoot is lead.

I shoot the same rounds in my 29's and 629's that I shoot in my 1894 and the velocity gain is real. I suppose that's a benefit of using W296. Not talking maxed out loads either.

 

[Freischütz]

A Win M95 in 30/06 or 30/40 would be a good choice. You can use any style of bullet you want. If you get a takedown, you'll have a very hand item for travel.

 

[reddogge]

I'd lean towards a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington. All of my camp hunting companions use Winchester 94s with offset scopes in .30-30. The offset scope is quirky and the .30-30 will not knock even a small Sika deer down quickly. Most have to be trailed and I have been on the trailing details too many times to trust a .30-30. Let the flames begin fromt the .30-30 lovers.

 

[dmar]

I'd lean towards a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington. All of my camp hunting companions use Winchester 94s with offset scopes in .30-30. The offset scope is quirky and the .30-30 will not knock even a small Sika deer down quickly. Most have to be trailed and I have been on the trailing details too many times to trust a .30-30. Let the flames begin fromt the .30-30 lovers.

Bullseye, my experience is that the .30-30 is fine with deer, if you do your part. I grew up hunting with a Winchester .30-30. That being said, for lever duty these days, I go with my Marlin .444, or Marlin .35 Rem, both rounds really make it happen... Some people swear by the .45/70, but to me, that's probably overkill in Appalachian deer hunting, but different strokes for different folks... Although, it is a very versatile caliber if you reload.

Overall, I'm a big fan of lever guns. Like everyone else on this forum, I guess I have too many guns, and my appreciation of lever guns has not helped this situation! I've got all sorts of calibers, .444 Marlin, .375 win, .30-30s, .35 rem, .44 mag, .357s (in Winchester, Marlin, and Puma, all great/fun shooters, those .357s...) and .22s.

I've always been partial to Winchesters, as I like the way they handle (light, thin, and very handy...). The pre 64s are great, and you can find some nice later ones, too. My favorite Winny is a .30-30 wartime, 'long wood' forearm 94, in beautiful condition. I've also come to really appreciate the Marlin lever guns. Heavier, nice action, more rugged feel, and just very nice guns. You can find some good deals on shooter Marlins if you look around.

I don't have a Henry, and do not like their painted, pot metal covered receivers on their standard .22s. I do like the Golden Boys, much, much nicer quality (including some nice wood...). Although, the GBs have a funky angle to the stock, and to me just does not fit right. All of the Henry's I've fired have excellent actions; very smooth...

I really like lever guns in .22. I've got a couple of Winchester 9422s, one early model, and one of the last produced in New Haven. If you like lever guns, you have to love the Marlin 36. In fact, I just realized another gun I have to shoot tomorrow!

Merrill, great collection of Winchesters there, beautiful guns, love that 64 and 1895! Envy comes to mind... I've got my eye out for a nice 64, as well as a Savage 99; one of these days...

 

[stonehorses]

Marlin 336 30-30 or........

Hey Bullseye. My husband has used a Marlin 336 30-30 for several years. He also suggests a 35 Rem or even a 32 special. His longest shot was maybe 50 yards at this end of the County.
Shoot us a pm or email if we can be of further help.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Lobo,

Where are you finding pre-64 Winchester anything at those prices???

Check out Gunbroker.com. Lots of pre-64 Model 94's show up in various conditions, of course. I've been outfitting my grandchildren, one at a time. Most recently, I bought a 1960-made Model 94 carbine .30-30 in solid 98% condition for $415 delivered to my local FFL. I picked up a 1955-made Model 94 carbine .32 Win. Spl. in 90% condition for about the same money about a year ago.

I also found a really sweet pre-WW2 Model 55 Deluxe Takedown for under $1000, including a fitted hard leather case.

There are lots of dealers who set minimum bids that are in the upper atmosphere, just like there are in every gun store. But there are also lots of folks who actually want to SELL, and good deals can be found with a little effort.

Best regards.

 

[Faulkner]

I am looking for a deer rifle well suited to where I live here in the Blue Ridge. Shots are rarely over 100 yards. It is my belief that more deer have been taken here with lever actions using the venerable .30-30 than with any other rifle/ammo combination, so I am inclined in that direction, but I recognize my ignorance and am looking for recommendations as to maker, model, and caliber. I'd go up to a grand, if necessary.

Deer hunters in the Appalachians are especially welcome to offer their suggestions.

Thanks so much guys!


Bullseye

Based on Bullsye's original post I think the .30-30 lever gun is absolutley adequate for what he's looking for. I've deer hunted in the Arkansas Ozarks my whole life and have seldom been undergunned with a one.

Between me and my two sons we've taken dozens of whitetails with my Marlin 336 and very few did we have to trail. Most shot opportunities where we hunt are limited to much less than 100 yard and one shot stops are common.

I've also taken to using a .357 magnum lever gun for deer hunting the past few years. Since it seems many of our shot opportunities are really more in the 50 to 60 yard range I've been using my 'scopeless' lever guns to good success. Between my 14 year old and I we've taken four whitetails with a .357 lever gun and all were one shot stops where they dropped in within 20 yards of the hit.

Back in the late 1800's the 44-40 and 38-40 blackpowder rounds in a lever gun were considered ace deer slayers, the .30-30 or .357 magnum will outperform them.

 

[PALADIN85020]

I'll put my two cents worth in here. In my experience, a .30/30 levergun kicks like a mule. It's just downright painful for me to shoot it very much. This does not speak well for practice.

My vote would go to a Model 1892 Winchester, Browning or Rossi, chambered for .44 Magnum. I prefer the '92 to the 1894 rifles in the same chambering primarily due to its smoother operation, as it's basically an ubersmooth 1886 model scaled down. Now let me tell you that a full-house .44 Magnum will also kick like hell in a 5.5 pound rifle, BUT you can practice all day with .44 specials. Sight in with the .44 Mag and use it for hunting, but for practice that's easy on the shoulder, those .44 special rounds are a godsend.

Here's my .44 Mag Model '92 Browning; in my opinion the ideal closer-range deer rifle.

John

 

[tdan]

Here's one to mull over...........Ruger 96 in 44Mag. Don't let naysayers scare you off from the 44Mag as a practical short range brush cartridge. In the 18.5" barrel of this carbine, a 240gr. XTP clocks 1720fps. Mine will keep 4 shots into 3/4" at 50 yds. I have a Bushnell Trophy 1.75-4X scope with the circle-x reticle that is just perfect for this gun. This is a very compact, lightweight package. I did make some mods. I couldn't stand that cheapo 10/22 design curved plastic buttplate. I bondo-ed up the butt, and fitted a proper recoil pad to give me a 14" pull. That small 1/2" Kick-Eez pad keeps the butt snug on the shoulder, and the little gun is a pussycat to shoot. Perfect for me! The factory supplies a fairly heavy, although crisp, trigger pull with this gun. All you have to do is replace that heavy factory trigger return spring with something lighter........along the lines of what you will find in a ball-point pen. Voila.........No takeup whatsoever, and the trigger breaks like glass at just over 2 lbs. Easiest action job I ever did in my life. You would be hard pressed to find another lever gun with such a nice trigger!

 

[sigp220.45]

Another vote for the late great Savage 99:

 

[Jswiney9]

from another blue ridge mountain boy........ do yourself a favor, dont spend a ton of money on a new lever gun when you can get a good USED marlin 336 .30-30 for around 300 bucks.

Load it up with LEVERevolution 140gr monoflex (we shot them out to 200 yards and kept good groupings) the bullets retain 95% of their weight and boy do they fly.

 

[smith17]

I just got back from taking 3 high school buddies (graduated 36 years ago) hog hunting and we had 3 levers and one semi-auto, taking 11 animals. Two .30-30s, a .357 and one .308 in a Model 100. I thought it was kind of neat to have 3 levers in camp. I forbade .223s.
Ed

 

[Gebe]

I am so AMAZED that this thread hasn't degraded into how TERRIBLE the 30-30 is for deer or for that matter, even a fox! I thank the people here who are in the know!

Yes, more deer have been taken with the 30-30 than any other cartridge!
I continue to be amazed at how gun magazines nowadays consider the venerable 30-30 as nothing much more than a .22 rimfire!

It's always bigger is better and blah, blah, blah. I'm not saying the 30-30 is an ideal round but it's been used for deer, even bear and all sorts of critters for over a century.

It is an ideal brush gun at 50-75 yards but like one said, with the new Hornady LEVERevolution ammo, it can now reach out to 200 yards or better if you know what you're doing.

You would never know it by reading all the gun magazines and listening to responses on internet forums. 30-30's should only be used for rabbits, or at the maximum, maybe the a racoon. That is IF you can find an article on the 30-30!

In the end, I guess we all should all succumb to getting rid of our weak 30-30's and get the next, latest, greatest caliber that the magazine articles tell us to as that's where they're money comes from!

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I am so AMAZED that this thread hasn't degraded into how TERRIBLE the 30-30 is for deer or for that matter, even a fox! I thank the people here who are in the know!

Yes, more deer have been taken with the 30-30 than any other cartridge!
I continue to be amazed at how gun magazines nowadays consider the venerable 30-30 as nothing much more than a .22 rimfire!

It's always bigger is better and blah, blah, blah. I'm not saying the 30-30 is an ideal round but it's been used for deer, even bear and all sorts of critters for over a century.

It is an ideal brush gun at 50-75 yards but like one said, with the new Hornady LEVERevolution ammo, it can now reach out to 200 yards or better if you know what you're doing.

You would never know it by reading all the gun magazines and listening to responses on internet forums. 30-30's should only be used for rabbits, or at the maximum, maybe the a racoon. That is IF you can find an article on the 30-30!

In the end, I guess we all should all succumb to getting rid of our weak 30-30's and get the next, latest, greatest caliber that the magazine articles tell us to as that's where they're money comes from!

If you haven't noticed and made the connection yet, the gun magazines feature write-ups on products made by the companies that buy advertising in the magazines. It's all about product promotion, creating buyer demand, and selling products.

Best regards.

 

[NFrameFred]

There is much validity to the notion that the old thutty-thutty gets a bad rap. But I maintain that most gun owners CAN"T SHOOT.

I'm talking about the AVERAGE gun owner who owns a shotgun, a 22 rifle and one or two more and their attitude is "ammo is too expensive and I can't afford to shoot much or I don't have a place to shoot." "Besides, I been a-shootin' fer years and I ain't never needed nothin' fancy and I've kilt hunnerts o' deer !" "No, I don't need to practice - I can do it when I need to". Ad nauseum - we've all heard it.

Yes - in capable hands a 357 or a 44 mag 75 to 100 yards out will do the job. Iron sights will do the job. What the heck - a .22 LR will do the job in the right hands. But for the average, casual shooter, a hard to shoot gun/marginal cartridge/hard to use/inadequate sights, etc . do not help. I worked with a clown that swore by the 30 Carbine as an all around cartridge for anything from mice to moose - he had killed "dozens" of deer with it. But I was around him enough to know that every year he wounded several before finally lucking up and killing one but it was always some bizarre twist of fate that caused it, not him or the gun.

Even the most rabid shooters among us have to admit we know several of these guys and have seen scads more on the range and in the field. And the smug superiority demonstrated by many that their favorite/preferred cartridge is all anyone needs is just ego talking because common sense doesn't abide with them.

An experienced shooter that takes the time to get to know their firearm and can perform reasonably with it before taking the field is more the exception than the rule. And shooting at paper that doesn't move off of the bench or leaning over a fence post is quite different from hitting a small target of vitals on a moving or wary animal under field conditions, bluster, brag and BS aside.

An ethical hunter either fulfills these things on his own if choosing to use less than optimum equipment/methods or uses optics, cartridges, actions, and whatnot that make hitting a live target a more sure and easier proposition.

These threads always deteriorate into the he-men heading toward relating how all they ever use is a slingshot and it does just fine . . . .

 

[retiredtech]

99

Forget all the rest and get a Real Gem, the savage 99 pre mil is far and away the best!

Many great Calibers and super to look at,never hunt with an ugly gun!

 

[Bullseye 2620]

There is much validity to the notion that the old thutty-thutty gets a bad rap. But I maintain that most gun owners CAN"T SHOOT.

I'm talking about the AVERAGE gun owner who owns a shotgun, a 22 rifle and one or two more and their attitude is "ammo is too expensive and I can't afford to shoot much or I don't have a place to shoot." "Besides, I been a-shootin' fer years and I ain't never needed nothin' fancy and I've kilt hunnerts o' deer !" "No, I don't need to practice - I can do it when I need to". Ad nauseum - we've all heard it.

Yes - in capable hands a 357 or a 44 mag 75 to 100 yards out will do the job. Iron sights will do the job. What the heck - a .22 LR will do the job in the right hands. But for the average, casual shooter, a hard to shoot gun/marginal cartridge/hard to use/inadequate sights, etc . do not help. I worked with a clown that swore by the 30 Carbine as an all around cartridge for anything from mice to moose - he had killed "dozens" of deer with it. But I was around him enough to know that every year he wounded several before finally lucking up and killing one but it was always some bizarre twist of fate that caused it, not him or the gun.

Even the most rabid shooters among us have to admit we know several of these guys and have seen scads more on the range and in the field. And the smug superiority demonstrated by many that their favorite/preferred cartridge is all anyone needs is just ego talking because common sense doesn't abide with them.

An experienced shooter that takes the time to get to know their firearm and can perform reasonably with it before taking the field is more the exception than the rule. And shooting at paper that doesn't move off of the bench or leaning over a fence post is quite different from hitting a small target of vitals on a moving or wary animal under field conditions, bluster, brag and BS aside.

An ethical hunter either fulfills these things on his own if choosing to use less than optimum equipment/methods or uses optics, cartridges, actions, and whatnot that make hitting a live target a more sure and easier proposition.

These threads always deteriorate into the he-men heading toward relating how all they ever use is a slingshot and it does just fine . . . .

There is so much truth in this, it needs no further amplification.

I'm looking now for a Marlin 336 in either .30-30 or .35 Remington. There's a guy who advertises on GB who does accuracy jobs on 'em, and has a < 1 MOA guarantee at 100 yards, and a .460 3-shot group with .35 Remington posted. I take the position that you can never have enough inherent accuracy because it makes it easier to diagnose and correct your errors. Pretty pricey, but as the man said, the only interesting guns are accurate guns. Accuracy job, Bushnell Elite 3200 2-7x32mm on top, in .35 Remington, given my skill level, I'd feel comfortable on most shots out to 150 yards, and I have never seen a 150 yard shot in all the years I have lived here.

I continue to be amazed at the depth of experience on this board on virtually any gun issue, and thank everyone for their taking the time to school me.


Bullseye

 

[Snapping Twig]

FWIW, Marlins are capable of bolt action accuracy straight out of the box with proper sized bullets if you use cast. Jackets shoot good w/o any modifications other than load work-up.

 

[DeadAye]

A friend right at made me try out his Winchester 94 in 7-30 Waters to use instead of my usual 357 mag pistol.
After that week I went and bought a 7-30 Waters Carbine barrel for my Contender and it's either that or the 686 for local deer now. I hunt in an area where a 100 yard shot would be pretty unusual though, with 50 being about average.
The 7-30 really does the job and I appreciate like the light weight of the TC, or a pistol, while dragging a deer up and down and through the swamp and up and down to get back to the truck.

 

[ladder13]

get a good USED marlin 336 .30-30 for around 300 bucks.

Load it up with LEVERevolution 140gr monoflex

All one needs out to 200 yards.

 

[walnutred]

Normally I'd heartily agree with the many posters who suggested a Marlin 336 in either 30 or 35 caliber. However since the original poster said they would be willing to go up to $1000 my choice would be different. You can still find a good condition BLR in that price range and a BLR in 308 will easily handle anything East of the Mississippi and most things in the Lower 48.

 

[Jswiney9]

you could always go all out and buy a Marlin 338MXLR its chambered in the new 338 marlin express, look up some of the ballistic charts on it..... the round is great and the gun is absolutely beautiful.

 

[cp1969]

you could always go all out and buy a Marlin 338MXLR its chambered in the new 338 marlin express, look up some of the ballistic charts on it..... the round is great and the gun is absolutely beautiful.

If you can find one. They seem to be scarce.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

FWIW, Marlins are capable of bolt action accuracy straight out of the box with proper sized bullets if you use cast. Jackets shoot good w/o any modifications other than load work-up.

The exception will be noted in Marlin's MicroGroove barrels, which do not generally stabilize cast bullets well at all. Many of the .30-30 Marlins feature the MicroGroove rifling, and perform most excellently with jacketed bullets. The bolt lock-up of the Marlin is generally acknowledged to be superior to anything Winchester ever offered in a lever action (with the possible exception of the Model 88, which is significantly different).

Most of my rifle shooting over the past 30 years has been with cast bullets. As noted by Col. E.H. Harrison in NRA's "Cast Bullets", the MicroGroove barrels are not generally suitable for most cast bullet designs and loads.

My Winchesters have all duplicated factory-load ballistics and accuracy with appropriate cast bullet loads. But I will readily admit that this is a specialized area that requires a great deal of study and work to obtain the performance required.

I continue to load hundreds of rounds of cast bullets in .30-30, .32 Win. Spl., .30-40 Krag, .30-06, .300 Savage .33 Winchester, .45-70, .45-90, and .45 Sharps Express every year. I have taken dozens of game animals with these, as have my sons, and now my grandchildren are hunting with them.

There may come a day when the readily available Marlin 336 rifles will have a demand like the older Winchester models. That remains to be seen. At the present time, I will still recommend investing in the Winchesters (pre-64 whenever possible), thus acquiring an entirely functional hunting rifle that will always appreciate in value.

The OP specified both a purpose and a budget. The stated purpose can be served with a Winchester rifle, that rifle can be readily obtained within the budget, and the investment will be very solid.

The purpose can be equally served with a Marlin, or a Savage, or several others, all within the budget. At present, none of those compare in investment potential.

Best regards.