LGS won't show take down on a gun?

I was intending to buy it that day. I had left, after the first encounter, to shop around a bit and think. I had my son with me. We made arrangements to meet up with my wife for lunch and when we were on our way, we were close to the LGS and I was curious about the take down, so I swung in, and had that encounter. Had it not gone like that, I was going to have lunch, run home, get my FS and go back. I wanted my FS with me because if they offered me a decent trade I would take it. If not, then I'd buy the compact, and sell the FS to somebody else.

After having lunch with my wife, my son and I went shopping and found it at another dealer. The deal sounded fair, but again, I didn't have the FS with me because we live in the country and I hadn't run home to get it. I was going to do that, but they were closing in 20 minutes and no way I could have made it home and back. This was on Saturday, they were closed Sunday and Monday and I've been working ever since.

I understand not wanting to condemn another party without hearing their side. I'm not looking to black list the LGS which is one main reason I'm not posting their name. I was just asking if taking down a pistol makes it used. It seems the consensus, regardless of other factors, is, on a gun like an M&P where we're not talking about a good chance of losing or damaging parts, seems to be that it does not.
 
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Stripping a gun doesn't make it used. Neither does firing a round, because the factory test fires a gun, but it's still sold as new. Writing the serial # on a 4473, & walking out the door after payment makes it used. However, stripping a gun that's unsold could cause a blem, & that's what we try to avoid. GARY
 
Rastoff said:
While the Mark I, II, III guns are notoriously difficult to field strip, they're not that hard. If the instructions in the manual are followed, it's fairly easy. If you're like most guys and deign to read the manual, it's easy to get wrong. Still, if it were my store, I'd take it down for you.


Many comments have been made like, "I'd never shop in that store!" Y'all have no clue what it takes to run a gun store.

Here's why gun stores won't allow a customer to field strip a gun:
4069543263_e0cb287b15.jpg


Would you buy a gun with this scratch on it? No, you wouldn't. Or you'd ask for a discount. If a customer put a scratch on it, the store just lost pretty much all their profit on that gun.

You see, gun stores make very little on guns. Most stores make their money on accessories. So, before you bash a store for a particular policy, understand what the consequences are of what you're asking.
Click to expand...

I will spend 10% more at a LGS than online as I want to have them in business the next time I need them. But I do limit it to 10% as I will not be held up!
 
I wouldnt buy one that I knew had been taken down and shown and gotten scratched, why would you want to take it down, its all over utube. This thread has ran too long.
 
Lord! I didn't read all the responses, but this is quite common among dealers. While it would be nice to see it done, the shop owners have to establish a policy to protect themselves from incorrectly assembled guns and mischief that may follow. This is the age of computers and we can view a video on that very subject or go to the manufactures web site to download the manual and look there.
 
By sheer coincidence, yesterday I ended up standing in line at MA's busiest gun shop for what seemed like hours while the guy in front of me played with, field stripped and inspected the internals on three identical used guns before he up and left without buying any of them. I would have laughed out loud given the coincidence of this mega-thread except that I was running very late and I think steam was coming out my ears as the wait went on seemingly forever... so much so that the shop owner finally came out from the back room and stepped in to handle my business (picking up an ordered gun) personally. :)

I do wish to repeat that they were used guns... but it appeared to me that the curious customer was more of a show-off than a serious buyer. The shop clerk handling the guy seemed to know that too from my observations... but he didn't stop the guy from taking all of those guns apart. He was as patient and polite as they get. :) I was impressed. :p

I had to wonder afterwards if the curious customer was just doing a little research... perhaps regarding a problem he was having with his own gun? :confused: That would have explained why none of the used guns seemed to meet his acceptability criteria. :rolleyes:

This thread also reminded me of another time at a different, much smaller shop where they were running a one-day closeout sale on a particular brand new imported .22 rifle. Me and another guy were there buying the last two rifles the shop had. I opened the box, took a quick look and said SOLD! :) The other guy literally took the gun entirely apart with tools before buying as they were doing my paperwork! :eek:

It was pretty clear that he was there to actually buy that rifle (it was a great deal) and that he was a customer well-known to the shop. Otherwise, that would have been one pretty darn weird situation! :D
 
#122, "FIRING A GUN DOESN'T MAKE IT USED?"

That would be the definition of used! ANYTHING other than LNIB is just that whether it's a scratch/ turn line/ scope mounted, etc. it is NO LONGER LNIB. A turn line on a vintage revolver that had none previously, did some damage to the sale value, BUT the vendor should have had it zip tied/ never allowed it to be pawed at/ or instructed & explained the deal. I'm sure both parties learned a lesson that day. The sweat/oils in certain peoples skin can be acidic & damage bluing if not wiped down quickly. Some of my most used lines at gun shows are: "see with you eyes, not your hands", "that's why it's called a gun SHOW, not a gun fondle", "if you want to fondle go to a LGS". YES I will stereotype/ profile and judge a book by it's cover when deciding just who I let "handle" my wares. If that upsets you, so sorry. Has it cost me a sale or 2, likely. After dealing all day with Lookie Lou's that have no money or intention of buying, my patience can get thin. I can fully see why many people chain/zip tie guns down on the table. Would asking people to use some hand sanitizer & wear these white gloves be out of line?
 
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TTSH said:
I do wish to repeat that they were used guns... but it appeared to me that the curious customer was more of a show-off than a serious buyer. The shop clerk handling the guy seemed to know that too from my observations... but he didn't stop the guy from taking all of those guns apart. He was as patient and polite as they get. :) I was impressed. :p
Click to expand...
Take note of this clerk. These are especially rare these days and worth a little extra coin to have. I would pay 10% more to get a gun from stores with clerks like this.

hangnoose said:
N4KVE said:
Stripping a gun doesn't make it used. Neither does firing a round, because the factory test fires a gun, but it's still sold as new.
Click to expand...
That would be the definition of used!
Click to expand...
Nope, not the definition of used. Every new gun has a few rounds fired at the factory. So, a new gun that was test fired at the factory is still new.

hangnoose said:
The sweat/oils in certain peoples skin can be acidic & damage bluing if not wiped down quickly.
Click to expand...
Something most people don't realize is that everyone's sweat/oils are acidic. Further, corrosion starts immediately. So, if a gun is going to rust from someone touching it, it starts as soon as the corrosive agent gets on the gun. This is why guns have some kind of treatment like bluing or stainless steel. That coating protects the finish from handling. Still, the gun needs to be wiped down.

I have to admit, I wouldn't be a good gun store owner. People handling the guns would bother me. I know it's part of the business, but it would bother me. This is why you won't find me at a gun show or as a store owner.
 
TTSH said:
By sheer coincidence, yesterday I ended up standing in line at MA's busiest gun shop for what seemed like hours while the guy in front of me played with, field stripped and inspected the internals on three identical used guns before he up and left without buying any of them. I would have laughed out loud given the coincidence of this mega-thread except that I was running very late and I think steam was coming out my ears as the wait went on seemingly forever... so much so that the shop owner finally came out from the back room and stepped in to handle my business (picking up an ordered gun) personally. :)

I do wish to repeat that they were used guns... but it appeared to me that the curious customer was more of a show-off than a serious buyer. The shop clerk handling the guy seemed to know that too from my observations... but he didn't stop the guy from taking all of those guns apart. He was as patient and polite as they get. :) I was impressed. :p

I had to wonder afterwards if the curious customer was just doing a little research... perhaps regarding a problem he was having with his own gun? :confused: That would have explained why none of the used guns seemed to meet his acceptability criteria. :rolleyes:

This thread also reminded me of another time at a different, much smaller shop where they were running a one-day closeout sale on a particular brand new imported .22 rifle. Me and another guy were there buying the last two rifles the shop had. I opened the box, took a quick look and said SOLD! :) The other guy literally took the gun entirely apart with tools before buying as they were doing my paperwork! :eek:

It was pretty clear that he was there to actually buy that rifle (it was a great deal) and that he was a customer well-known to the shop. Otherwise, that would have been one pretty darn weird situation! :D
Click to expand...




....O.....M........G!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
MichiganScott said:
I'm out of popcorn and it's losing it's entertainment value.
Click to expand...

Quit crying - - - un subscribe if you don't want to watch this thread anymore!

I know all leftist want to force their will on everyone but I did not know the leftist were on a site like this!
 
eyegots2no said:
So...
When you look at the insides, what is that gonna do for you??? What are you gonna learn? What do you know about the insides?
Click to expand...

Well since this is the S&W forum, you can easily identify with a field strip:

* If your gun has the new twist barrel - look for the milling dimple on the locking lug of the barrel
* If your gun has the new H stamp trigger bar
* If your gun has the new slide stop

Why would you want to look? Because S&W is still putting old parts in brand new guns.

If you buy without looking your taking a **** shoot at what you are gonna get.

PS: I passed on two gun show purchases because they would not field strip. Found what I wanted at a LGS who had no problems letting me monkey finger it.
 
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I believe the OP was only wanting to see the procedure for takedown... But he would have to answer that to be sure..
 
A.O. said:
I believe the OP was only wanting to see the procedure for takedown... But he would have to answer that to be sure..
Click to expand...

Correct, I mainly wanted to see the take down procedure to see how it compared to the FS M&P .22 and the Shield. Having said that, the purpose of this thread was to see if doing a field strip turned a new gun into a used gun, as the LGS claimed
 
tonesurfer said:
Well since this is the S&W forum, you can easily identify with a field strip:

* If your gun has the new twist barrel - look for the milling dimple on the locking lug of the barrel
* If your gun has the new H stamp trigger bar
* If your gun has the new slide stop

Why would you want to look? Because S&W is still putting old parts in brand new guns.

If you buy without looking your taking a **** shoot at what you are gonna get.

PS: I passed on two gun show purchases because they would not field strip. Found what I wanted at a LGS who had no problems letting me monkey finger it.
Click to expand...
Those are not old parts, as they are still new, & unused. They may be an older design, but still unused. [new] What should they do, throw them away? No, they still install them in their new guns until the supply is used up. As long as there is no safety defect with the older design parts, there is no reason to throw them out. Many companies state in their warranty that if their product was built last year, but if currently built products use different parts, they are not required to update the parts in the older product unless there is a safety issue. GARY
 
tonesurfer said:
Well since this is the S&W forum, you can easily identify with a field strip:

* If your gun has the new twist barrel - look for the milling dimple on the locking lug of the barrel
* If your gun has the new H stamp trigger bar
* If your gun has the new slide stop

Why would you want to look? Because S&W is still putting old parts in brand new guns.

If you buy without looking your taking a **** shoot at what you are gonna get.

PS: I passed on two gun show purchases because they would not field strip. Found what I wanted at a LGS who had no problems letting me monkey finger it.
Click to expand...

I purchased a new twist 9mm barrel. There is no dimple on my barrel. Comparing the older twist in barrel to the new twist, I could see the difference. I thought I was sent the wrong . barrel. So there are newer twist barrels with and without dimples.
 
wizzap said:
Nope but i do pop the hood
Click to expand...
Popping the hood on a car, is like opening the box on a new gun. Nothing more. Guys, many of you need to work a few gun shows. You wouldn't believe how many morons we have to deal with. While many people are nice, many have no intention of buying a gun, ask stupid questions, & are there to spend the day in fantasy land for $10. Then go home & thrill themselves. Much cheaper than a strip club. My boss would literally throw anybody out of his store who wanted to strip a gun before purchase. 1 dry fire is OK, but 2 & you're gone. And then these same morons ask for a price, & when we give it to them, for some reason, they want us to pay the sales tax on their purchase. Do they say that at the checkout line at Walmart, or when they buy a new laptop, or I Phone, or purchase a new car? We are a licensed business, & just like any retailer are obliged to collect sales tax, or pay serious fines. At any time, the state can come to the store, ask to see all our 4473's, & then ask to match them up to the sales receipts showing sales tax was collected on all of them. Over the years my boss has made more money than God, has a new Vette, a Ford Raptor, & big boats too. So any time you think a gun sales person is rude, just work his side of the counter for a week. I know it sure changed my outlook on things. GARY
 
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There are certainly many different opinions but I'll give my point of view. (it's the same as some of them posted already). Not saying who is right and who is wrong, just my personal feelings.

I believe "NEW" means never been sold retail. With that said, the "condition" of a NEW gun can certainly vary based on how the retailer/distributor allows the gun to be "handled". Some dealers on the internet specify that the gun is "on display/handled" in their store and others don't. Some dealers who work gun shows go from show to show displaying the guns, packing them up, displaying the guns, packing them up......so they are "handled" significantly at times. Some dealers let customers "handle" the gun and it appears some even let customers field strip. It also appears some shops may have put a few rounds through the gun. Regardless, if no previous retail sale, the gun is NEW.

I, for one, will NOT buy a "NEW" gun that has been field stripped or shot outside of the factory test by employees/customers. I've seen posts of too many re-assemblies "gone wrong" and the resulting parts that have been damaged or re-installed improperly. I won't even buy a "NEW" gun if it's been handled excessively, there are usually others I can find that have not been displayed or used as "demos" for customers/employees.

I actually STOPPED purchasing guns from a dealer because one day I was there to pick up an order and they had an employee opening a bunch of guns that had just come in and he was racking slides, dry firing, basically giving them a workout....and he was none too careful. Some were expensive semi-custom guns like Wilson and Ed Brown. But I don't care if the gun was a $200 or a $4000 gun, I don't want anyone messing with my new guns. These were guns customers special ordered and paid for so I was shocked by the way they were being played with by the employee. I saw him also do this with guns they had in stock, sitting on the shelf.

Have I ever bought guns that have been "handled" by employees and/or customers......probably, but certainly not if I knew it. I know, I really have no way of knowing if my "new" gun was handled or field stripped ......but if I KNOW that a certain dealer lets other people field strip new guns, shoot them (even if 1 round), etc. then I won't shop there.

Like I said, no wrong or right answer....each to their own. It gets muddy when you are talking about the gun being "new, not previously sold to a retail buyer" and "new condition" (whatever that means to someone.......and trust me, it varies).

Just like the dealer in question........some will NOT buy from him while others would. I'm with the crowd that doesn't want to buy a "new" gun that has been field stripped by someone else.
 
N4KVE said:
My boss would literally throw anybody out of his store who wanted to strip a gun before purchase. 1 dry fire is OK, but 2 & you're gone. So any time you think a gun sales person is rude, just work his side of the counter for a week. I know it sure changed my outlook on things. GARY
Click to expand...

Wow, what's the name of the store so I can make sure to avoid it?
And I worked the business side of a gun counter for years, was the top seller the whole time I was there.. disassembled lots of guns for lots of customers... maybe that's why I sold so many!!!:D
 
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