LHBWC's seated backwards?

[Cyrano]

I experimented with this idea for quite a while in the 1980s. Used them in a S&W 36, incidentally. Used store-bought HBWCs. Couldn't get good results, no matter what powder charge I used. Accuracy wsas nil, and they leaded heavily, even after I ran them through a lubricator-sizer. I couldn't conduct any meaningful penetration or expansion tests. I soon gave up on the idea.

 

[nicky4968]

Others have mentioned the gas check. If you want any accuracy, and to cut down on leading, you should put a gas check on the nose (which is now the base of the bullet).
The HBWC is sub-caliber; it depends on the "skirt" expanding to obdurate correctly. If the bullet does not obdurate, the rifling does not grip the bullet well enough and the gas blow-by in the barrel will cause severe leading.
If you must have a hollow point, you can cast one (a one-bullet-at-a-time proposition) or buy the factory made ones. They will perform better and be less trouble to mess with.
FWIW, I am apprently the only person in the world sticking with the 158 gr RNL or the 148 gr DBWC. But I'm old and don't know any better.

 

[bradanita]

I saw a show some time ago that showed the guys in WW1 loading mauser bullets backwards because they couldn't penetrate the armor we were hiding behind in the trenches,but it would 'shrapnel' the rust and debri off the backside of the plates and mes up the guys eyes and faces, claiming the backwards bullet hit harder

 

[pete950]

I have looked at this since I saw a pic of the Bluebunny ammunition.
I have found that if you use Berry's plated hollow base wadcutters they do not have a very deep hollow base, you can load them hot say 4.5 to 5 grains of Unique or 4 grains of Bullsey with no presure signs.
Do not know the velocites but out of a Detective Special they are accurate and they penetrate almost 2 Chicago phone books and mushroom double there size.

 

[Jellybean]

FWIW, I am apprently the only person in the world sticking with the 158 gr RNL or the 148 gr DBWC. But I'm old and don't know any better.

nicky, You're not alone. I have some 158gr RNL around, but no mould, so once they're gone they're done. I do have a 150gr RNL mould that will do very nicely. Also never used any 148gr DEWCs either since my moulds are for regular 148gr. WCs. Since I'm a .41 fanatic I have moulds for a wide variety of WCs, LRNs, SWCs and even a TC for my .41AE. I think HPs are too over rated for self defense situations. I no longer have any use for factory ammo or bullets.

 

[Dan Cash]

This applies only in two circumstances: First, the bullet is loaded normally, base down, and, Second, to higher than standard pressure for a target load.

If the bullet is loaded hollow base forward, with the solid nose now forming the bullet base, how would you suggest the shirt could pull off and the solid base, being behind the skirt, be blown out leaving the skirt in the bore????????

Yes, they will lead. Expansion is spotty. Other than these go ahead and try it, it has been done for many, many years with no particular problems. Just be sure to only seat the bullet as deep in the case as a 158 semi-wadcutter would be, approximately the center cannellure. Don't try full loads with the bullet seated flush with the case mouth, it will give excessive pressure with even standard loads to do so.

HBWCs loaded skirt forward are reasonably accurate and expand like crazy when loaded to STANDARD WADCUTTER VELOCITIES. Unfortunately, they don't penetrate very well. When the velocity is increased, the web at the closed end of the bullet blows out with the potential of leaving part of a bullet in the barrel as an obstruction. When this happens, accuracy is poor and projectiles tumble. I have tried overcoming this by swedging a gas check to the solid end of the bullet then loading it with the hollow base forward.

I did not get satisfactory results and decided a that a heavy, blunt nosed bullet at moderate velocity was my choice. Made up my mind 40 years ago and have not seen anything since to make me change it.

 

[pistola]

Backwards Bullets

Penetration is not the greatest,but even out of a snub nose they do expand.....

 

[Rafter-S]

I hate to admit this but in my younger, more foolish years I drilled out jacketed hollowpoint bullets (just a little) and trickled in a few granuels of bullseye in the cavity. Then pushed in a small pistol primer over it to cause ignition on impact. The loaded rounds looked wierd with a primer on each end. But they worked...too well in that the powder blew the front of the bullet off like shrapnel upon impact.

Now that I am old, but still foolish (only in different matters), I will not do that sort of thing again.

Rafter-S

 

[chriske]

I wondered about reverse-loaded wadcutters myself, once.
Than it occurred to me that using mechanical devices for ends they were not intended for, usually gets one into trouble, sooner or later.
Like.. it's possible to drive screws into wood with a hammer, but the proper way (to use a screwdriver) is a safer bet.
(Once forces are exerted on a bullet it acts as a mechanical device inside the gun, doens't it ?)

 

[The Rabbi]

I have looked at this since I saw a pic of the Bluebunny ammunition.
I have found that if you use Berry's plated hollow base wadcutters they do not have a very deep hollow base, you can load them hot say 4.5 to 5 grains of Unique or 4 grains of Bullsey with no presure signs.
Do not know the velocites but out of a Detective Special they are accurate and they penetrate almost 2 Chicago phone books and mushroom double there size.

The Blue Bunny loads clocked at about 880fps out of a 2" Model 640 and penetrated 15+ inches in permagel.
One issue is that they tend to turn sideways after about 7 yards. That isn't necessarily a bad thing but the load is meant mainly for the snub, which lives within that distance.
Mr Wall, our engineer who posts here sometimes, mentioned he had loaded some HBWCs backwards in the 1960s and gave them to a guy, who ended up using them on 3 people (and going to jail for it but thats another story). The guy reported that the loads "opened the fellow up like frog."

 

[redlevel]

Just for clarification:

obdurate is an adjective meaning "hardened in wickedness or wrongdoing."

obturate is a verb meaning (in this instance) "to close (a hole or cavity) so as to prevent a flow of gas through it, esp. the escape of explosive gas from a gun tube during firing."

Now, a Patridge sight is . . . . . . . . .

 

[JSR III]

What a country. You defend yourself from some low life piece of crap and assumably you are in fear for your life, so you shoot him. After the fact, you are judged as to whether you tried to kill him humanely or kill him like a gentleman.

If some creaton is trying to hurt me or my family, it should not matter if I use a grenade or a slingshot. The reason that many of these creeps do what they do is because they do not fear the consequences. When the criminal is more afraid of us than we are of them, then we will have our country back.

Sorry for the rant, but this just really jacks me up.

 

[Jellybean]

...he had loaded some HBWCs backwards in the 1960s and gave them to a guy, who ended up using them on 3 people (and going to jail for it but thats another story)....

The Rabbi, I'd like to hear that story, it sorta fits another thread that's run here once in a while. Thanks

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Now, a Patridge sight is . . . . . . . . .

probably the best sight to use for hunting partridge with your K-22. However, there are those who prefer a Baughman ramp with a red insert.

I loaded a box or two of backward HBWC bullets, some with 2.5 gr of BE, some with 3.5, about 43 years ago. Both loads mushroomed perfectly in dirt/sand which left RNL generally undamaged. I do not recall the accuracy, except that it must not have been bad enough to notice. There were no problems. These were all shot out of my Model 40.

 

[38-44HD45]

This old dead horse again? Okay, I'll get in a few whacks. Back in the mid-70s, I loaded up some backwards HBWCs, primarily for my aunt. She was about 4'8" tall, with hands to match and some arthritis, and was having trouble with any factory ammo she could find for her little Model 36. She had not found any target wadcutters. I do not recall the load I worked up, but I do recall that it was slightly faster than factory wadcutters. I believe I used either Red Dot or Unique powder. My results were essentially identical to those reported by Lobo, above. Great expansion, not much penetration, poor accuracy beyond 12-15 yards, and occasional keyholing. I tried them in my 4" Model 10, and if I recall correctly, got fewer keyholes, but it's been too many years for me to be sure. My aunt was pleased, since the loads handled much easier than any factory ammo she'd tried, and she could hit well enough with them at 10 yards, which was all she wanted. The little revolver was still loaded with some of them when she died about 10 years ago.