will installing a light on a semi-auto pistol cause issues ?
LIGHT ON A SEMI-AUTO
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Adds weight.
Adds bulk.
Gives a criminal a perfect target to shoot at - the light! If you are aiming the pistol, the light is between your eyes!
Need a special holster to carry it.
Just another thing to think about when you should not have too.
These are just my opinions and many may not agree. That's there right and I am just stating what does and does not work for me.
I keep a 4 Watt night light on after dark on every floor. That is enough for me to see but still difficult for someone not familiar with my home. Helps illuminate the way for me when I sneak down for a midnight snack too! LOL The night lights are dim but since I know my own home - more than adequate for us. Not so adequate for someone breaking in and not knowing the layout of our home.
Adds weight.
Adds bulk.
Gives a criminal a perfect target to shoot at - the light! If you are aiming the pistol, the light is between your eyes!
Need a special holster to carry it.
Just another thing to think about when you should not have too.
These are just my opinions and many may not agree. That's there right and I am just stating what does and does not work for me.
I keep a 4 Watt night light on after dark on every floor. That is enough for me to see but still difficult for someone not familiar with my home. Helps illuminate the way for me when I sneak down for a midnight snack too! LOL The night lights are dim but since I know my own home - more than adequate for us. Not so adequate for someone breaking in and not knowing the layout of our home.
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As noted, some of the G***ks have issues. M&Ps don't, I'd expect any metal frame gun wouldn't.
At least indoors, there's generally enough reflected light from flashlights that worrying about where the flashlight is located is pointless. In either case, you're plainly visible. A separate flashlight is still a good idea for general illumination, better for outdoor search..
The holster comment is true and is a necessary item if you're contemplating it for duty use*. Home defense it's not an issue. Adding weight can be a good thing for recoil control.
*While you might consider just a separate way to carry the light until you need it, if you have only one hand available at some point, you still need some way to safely holster/store the firearm to free up the gun hand. Clamping it in your teeth ain't gonna cut it, nor is dropping it in a thigh pocket.
At least indoors, there's generally enough reflected light from flashlights that worrying about where the flashlight is located is pointless. In either case, you're plainly visible. A separate flashlight is still a good idea for general illumination, better for outdoor search..
The holster comment is true and is a necessary item if you're contemplating it for duty use*. Home defense it's not an issue. Adding weight can be a good thing for recoil control.
*While you might consider just a separate way to carry the light until you need it, if you have only one hand available at some point, you still need some way to safely holster/store the firearm to free up the gun hand. Clamping it in your teeth ain't gonna cut it, nor is dropping it in a thigh pocket.
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Green Frog
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Speaking from experience and from research, but not any agency training etc, I have decided against a flashlight on my handgun for two reasons.
First, as has been mentioned, it gives the bad guy something to shoot at... if i hold the light away from myself I can still see what I need with it.
Second, I don't want my light and my gun so closely connected... using the gun as a flashlight seems like an accident waiting to happen, and from what I have been able to gather from my research, that seems to be a concern to those agencies who are now taking their lights off of their guns. I feel well equipped if I have a good flashlight in one hand, and a good handgun in the other. My complete carry package includes a good strong pocketknife, one that opens easily with one hand... it's a shame I don't have three hands!
Froggie
First, as has been mentioned, it gives the bad guy something to shoot at... if i hold the light away from myself I can still see what I need with it.
Second, I don't want my light and my gun so closely connected... using the gun as a flashlight seems like an accident waiting to happen, and from what I have been able to gather from my research, that seems to be a concern to those agencies who are now taking their lights off of their guns. I feel well equipped if I have a good flashlight in one hand, and a good handgun in the other. My complete carry package includes a good strong pocketknife, one that opens easily with one hand... it's a shame I don't have three hands!
Froggie
Everyone is missing one thing. If you train using both hands when you shoot you will want a light on you pistol. Either that or you better start training shooting with one hand.
I don't know anyone that trains with one hand.
I don't know anyone that trains with one hand.
ContinentalOp
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ContinentalOp
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I'm ambivalent on the subject of WMLs. They have pros and cons. I don't use one because the way my home is laid out, and the fact I live alone, simplifies target identification in the dark. I also keep a handheld flashlight next to my nightstand gun if needed. I typically have one or two flashlights on me when out and about. But I can see situations where they'd be handy (pun intended... 
).
The big issue here is that WMLs are meant primarily for target verification, i.e. you've identified a potential target and need to confirm it before pulling the trigger. Having a WML on your gun doesn't negate the need for a handheld flashlight.
As far as reliability, regardless of make/model gun and/or light, you should test it with the light mounted and using your SD ammo of choice. That way you can see if there might be any reliability issues as well get a feel for how the added weight affects handling.
Just my opinion.
).The big issue here is that WMLs are meant primarily for target verification, i.e. you've identified a potential target and need to confirm it before pulling the trigger. Having a WML on your gun doesn't negate the need for a handheld flashlight.
As far as reliability, regardless of make/model gun and/or light, you should test it with the light mounted and using your SD ammo of choice. That way you can see if there might be any reliability issues as well get a feel for how the added weight affects handling.
Just my opinion.
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I've had experience in places you don't lite a cigarette in the dark. Want no part of lite on a gun unless poaching bull frogs.
PPS1980
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Those that I use are weapons mounted and USB rechargeable. I HATE specialty batteries used in many weapons lights because they are a) expensive, and b) not readily available. I do not have lights on many weapons but I do on two and in each case I choose the Olight with the ratcheting attachment so I could really fine tune the placement of the switches and have USB recharging for them.
HardToHandle
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In my neck of woods, there are almost no uniformed and few plainclothes officers that do not have WMLs in their holsters. To JimmyJ's original question, that is a piece of evidence.
I would test extensively. My recollection on the Glock 22 issues it had to do with specific bullet weights primarily. Basically a harmonics issue between all the variables involved. That is what I do when adding new equipment or making alterations.
— please see the better, more detailed post later in the thread on Glock 22 issues —
I would test extensively. My recollection on the Glock 22 issues it had to do with specific bullet weights primarily. Basically a harmonics issue between all the variables involved. That is what I do when adding new equipment or making alterations.
— please see the better, more detailed post later in the thread on Glock 22 issues —
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Again - just my opinion......
Anyone training to shoot with solely with two hands and never trains with one is severely handicapping themselves!!! There are multiple circumstances that could arise in a home where you might only have one hand to shoot with. Not only train with one hand - train with your weak hand as well.
In a perfect world, two handed is better - no question. In a real world we sometimes do not have that option!
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One more point against a flashlight! There might me times you want to illuminate an unknown person and might not want to point a loaded gun at them! Can't do that unless your flashlight is separate from your gun!
Marshal Tom
Member
I never carried one on any of my handguns but I was given one as a present and now put it on my nightstand gun each night. It also has a laser. I am divided about the use of one for the reasons stated by others above. As an LE we trained with the various hand held flashlight techniques and I was quite comfortable with that approach.
ContinentalOp
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There is the Harries technique, which is the first flashlight technique I learned. At the time it made sense as I was predominantly using the Weaver stance and the two work well together.
Yep, rechargeable Olight is da bomb. I have one on my P-30. They were doing a special on those not long ago and I think I paid about 70 for it and it came with a nice mini flashlight.
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Doug M.
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The research being done by hard use folks indicates pretty clearly that lights and RDS on pistols are the way to go. I'll admit I do not have any pistols with lights as I have not trained that way - but all but one of my my long guns do. The correct answer to the issue of potentially using the WML as a flashlight is to carry a flashlight. I do - pretty much every second. If I was still in LE, I would have and train with a WML and RDS; the advantages are huge.
Glocks in .40 were documented from about 2007 on to have very serious problems with WML - the old 10-8 forums had a pretty ugly discussion of the problem, and Glock's lack of response. The 22/23 platform was deeply flawed even without lights, and nothing done to address it worked reliably, but there was a time when the previously reliable 9mm platforms were screwed up by the efforts to address the issue.
Glocks in .40 were documented from about 2007 on to have very serious problems with WML - the old 10-8 forums had a pretty ugly discussion of the problem, and Glock's lack of response. The 22/23 platform was deeply flawed even without lights, and nothing done to address it worked reliably, but there was a time when the previously reliable 9mm platforms were screwed up by the efforts to address the issue.
PPS1980
Member
I've been a customer of their's for a while and got a pre-sale invite on the last sale for the PL-Mini Valkyrie. I had some coupon cash with them and walked out with the light for $34
Their S-curve mini-flashlights are great too - clip in pocket but the reversed curve also allows clipping to the bill of your cap 
So far their stuff has taken a beating and keeps working.
I make it a point to do one hand shooting every time I go to the range. I have a drill I do where I shoot a mag with 2 hands, WHO, SHO, I do this at 7, 15, 20, and 25 yrds. thats 120 rounds.
carry/have both handy...............be prepared to drop the flashlight if necessary...... in your home a 200 lumen flashlight on the floor will give you enough light to ID and engage.................... weapons light that you can flick on as needed with the off hand thumb in a two hand hold....................
MY home has scattered nightlights and .... right now christmas lights that give the whole place enough light to identify and engage.
reserve AAA light in your pocket...............
Options................... every plan goes off the rails at first contact
MY home has scattered nightlights and .... right now christmas lights that give the whole place enough light to identify and engage.
reserve AAA light in your pocket...............
Options................... every plan goes off the rails at first contact
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Oracle
US Veteran
I mounted a Streamlight on my Daniel Defense. The local indoor range I use can darken shooting bays and lanes.
I initially had the light mounted with the muzzle and the front end of the light even. The concussion would make the light go out sometimes so I mounted the light further aft and that solved the issue.
Now the oxymoron; putting a light on a rifle with a flash suppressor.
I initially had the light mounted with the muzzle and the front end of the light even. The concussion would make the light go out sometimes so I mounted the light further aft and that solved the issue.
Now the oxymoron; putting a light on a rifle with a flash suppressor.
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Try just leaving 4 watt night lights on at night. One on each level usually does the trick. It works for us - we can see fairly well and since we know our homes layout, a 4 W bulb is all that is required. Anyone braking in at night will probably not know your layout and the dim 4W bulb will be almost useless to them.
I would think many times a flashlight will help them locate and pinpoint you.
I would think many times a flashlight will help them locate and pinpoint you.
To compare any situation I may find myself having to defend to what a LEO would be in isn't the same. Most people surrender when a LEO identifies themselves and won't shoot. I'm not the law so no combat light for me. I do have a handheald tac light that I might use to blind the assailant but that's about it. I guess it all comes down to personal preference.
max503
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I was thinking the same thing. Or raccoons in the campsite.I hate the rails on my Taurus PT 92 but that's the only way you can get them anymore.
I've heard it's reflexive to shoot at the light in a gunfight. Why give someone a target?
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mscampbell2734
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I normally don't get involved in weapon mounted light, WML, debates but this one is just so full of BS I'm going to, and I'm going to ruffle some feathers.
First the vast huge almost total majority of people posting here have no idea what they are talking about. Not to blow my own horn but I have 10 years as a Marine, 26 years with the third largest police Department in America, where I'm a firearms, tactics, and less lethal munitions instructor. I've also attended the FBI Law Enforcement Firearms instructor course and personnel been involved in hundreds of searches in the Watts district, with and without K9, for armed and wanted felony suspects both in the open and within buildings. I've testified in court as both a firearms and tactics expert.
So lets get started. To people who talking about they have tiny lights in their house and know the layout and don't need a light great. BUT your opinion is based on an extremely narrow set of circumstances, namely defending a known location and assuming anything/anyone in the location is a target. Almost every year there are stories of homeowners shooting and killing their son/daughter/girlfriend/wife/whatever because they ASSUME the shape moving is an intruder when really the kid is home from college/returning from a date with the kid the father doesn't like, off work early and forgot their key etc. Remember as the GOOD guys we can not just shoot at shapes, we have to know were engaging a real threat.
Next is the why would I have a light and give the bad guy something to shoot at, combined with I can shoot one handed and point my light with the other. FACT there is no faster way to get hits on a deadly threaten then with a WML, anything else is just shooting with one hand and holding a light with the other.
So lets look at some light/handgun (I'll forgo rifle/shotgun light discussion) techniques.
1. FBI technique. The oldest and most commonly referred to by people with no real training. I tongue in cheek refer to this as the Statue of Liberty technique. Hold light as high and as far out as possible with the support arm while pointing weapon one handed. Anyone who's used this technique for more then 5 minutes, while holding a 5 cell Mag light/Kel light, knows the light gets lower and closer to the body, leading to....
2. Modified FBI technique, sometimes called the turret technique. Basically rest the light on the shoulder and turn your entire body, shooting arm extended, sort of like a tank turret. Advantage of taking the weight off the arm AND depending on the light can throw light on the front sight, resulting in surprisingly good accuracy.
Those two are really the only ones where the support hand and light are NOT joined some way with the gun hand, so in other words over time people have found they want to hit what they are shooting at. Leading to...
Harries technique. A derivative of the Weaver technique. Instead of push/pull tension, it's side to side tension. The gun arm is extended straight out, upper body is sharply bladed,allowing the support hand and light to be brought UNDER the gun arm and the hands to meet back to back. Works with all types of lights.
Ayood Stressfire technique. Only works with lights with side switches. Basically light is held in support hand, palm up, thumb on switch, and support hand is brought to gun, base of thumb to base of thumb. Naturally angles the light slightly upwards, blinding anyone at closer ranges.
Chapman technique. Broadly similar to Stressfire. Thumb and first finger encircle the light, other three fingers grip the front of the gun hand, thumb controls lights. Again only works with lights with side switches. Levels out the light compared to the gun, giving better light control at ranges past 10 yards.
Surefire/Rogers technique. Requires both a rear pressure switch light and large "cigar" ring. Grip light between first and middle finger, grip gun in both hands. Tightening grip will cause the switch to be compressed, turning on light. Good accuracy and very natural but requires a specially set up light. Surefire sold their Z2 series just for this purpose.
Again these later techniques all join the light to the gun, with the intent to give some support to the gun hand and have the light and gun work together.
Now lets address the idea of not wanting to point a weapon at something you don't want to shoot, like you kid's bed.
Two points.
1. It's not WML or hand light, It's BOTH. There will always be situations where you want to use a light to see and don't want to bring a gun along. Fine, I fully agree, and I agree way to many people get sloppy/lazy with the WML and use it to look under the car seat for the dropped cell phone etc.
2. There is NO need to point a WML and weapon at the kid's bed to see if they are ok. This is an ignorant mindset, ignorant meaning people who say this have no first hand experience with current generation WML. My first light, circa 2004, was a first generation Streamlight TLR-1. Rated at 120 lumens, or about what my foot long SL20 could put out. Current lights from both major manufactures put out over 1,000 lumens, able to illuminate a small room by pointing almost anywhere in the room.
Finally, to those talking about a light drawing fire, yes I absolutely know what your saying. BUT like I said before we are suppose to be the good guys, We are not operating in a total free fire zone. We have to identify the threat BEFORE we can fire, and that does put us at a disadvantage. Sorry but that's the cost of being the good guy.
Feel free to respond, but if you do please have something factual and relevant to say.
Almost forgot to address the original questions. Yes, the Gen 3 Glock 22/23 were found to sometimes have issues when lights were attached. Super slo-mo video showed the frames flexed during recoil with the added weight and could, depending on the ammo, size/strength of the shooter, temperature etc cause malfunctions.
New plastic frame designs with steel subframes, such as the Smith MP, Sigs 320, use don't have this issue because of the subframe. Also Glock seems to have gotten this issue under control in Gen 4 and 5 guns.
On metal frame guns the only issue is how the rail is attached. Surefire made a rail for 1911s that used a special replacement slide stop. Others were made using super epoxy or rivets. Results varied, which is part of the reason Smith went to the forged and machined rail in their last runs of TSW guns.
First the vast huge almost total majority of people posting here have no idea what they are talking about. Not to blow my own horn but I have 10 years as a Marine, 26 years with the third largest police Department in America, where I'm a firearms, tactics, and less lethal munitions instructor. I've also attended the FBI Law Enforcement Firearms instructor course and personnel been involved in hundreds of searches in the Watts district, with and without K9, for armed and wanted felony suspects both in the open and within buildings. I've testified in court as both a firearms and tactics expert.
So lets get started. To people who talking about they have tiny lights in their house and know the layout and don't need a light great. BUT your opinion is based on an extremely narrow set of circumstances, namely defending a known location and assuming anything/anyone in the location is a target. Almost every year there are stories of homeowners shooting and killing their son/daughter/girlfriend/wife/whatever because they ASSUME the shape moving is an intruder when really the kid is home from college/returning from a date with the kid the father doesn't like, off work early and forgot their key etc. Remember as the GOOD guys we can not just shoot at shapes, we have to know were engaging a real threat.
Next is the why would I have a light and give the bad guy something to shoot at, combined with I can shoot one handed and point my light with the other. FACT there is no faster way to get hits on a deadly threaten then with a WML, anything else is just shooting with one hand and holding a light with the other.
So lets look at some light/handgun (I'll forgo rifle/shotgun light discussion) techniques.
1. FBI technique. The oldest and most commonly referred to by people with no real training. I tongue in cheek refer to this as the Statue of Liberty technique. Hold light as high and as far out as possible with the support arm while pointing weapon one handed. Anyone who's used this technique for more then 5 minutes, while holding a 5 cell Mag light/Kel light, knows the light gets lower and closer to the body, leading to....
2. Modified FBI technique, sometimes called the turret technique. Basically rest the light on the shoulder and turn your entire body, shooting arm extended, sort of like a tank turret. Advantage of taking the weight off the arm AND depending on the light can throw light on the front sight, resulting in surprisingly good accuracy.
Those two are really the only ones where the support hand and light are NOT joined some way with the gun hand, so in other words over time people have found they want to hit what they are shooting at. Leading to...
Harries technique. A derivative of the Weaver technique. Instead of push/pull tension, it's side to side tension. The gun arm is extended straight out, upper body is sharply bladed,allowing the support hand and light to be brought UNDER the gun arm and the hands to meet back to back. Works with all types of lights.
Ayood Stressfire technique. Only works with lights with side switches. Basically light is held in support hand, palm up, thumb on switch, and support hand is brought to gun, base of thumb to base of thumb. Naturally angles the light slightly upwards, blinding anyone at closer ranges.
Chapman technique. Broadly similar to Stressfire. Thumb and first finger encircle the light, other three fingers grip the front of the gun hand, thumb controls lights. Again only works with lights with side switches. Levels out the light compared to the gun, giving better light control at ranges past 10 yards.
Surefire/Rogers technique. Requires both a rear pressure switch light and large "cigar" ring. Grip light between first and middle finger, grip gun in both hands. Tightening grip will cause the switch to be compressed, turning on light. Good accuracy and very natural but requires a specially set up light. Surefire sold their Z2 series just for this purpose.
Again these later techniques all join the light to the gun, with the intent to give some support to the gun hand and have the light and gun work together.
Now lets address the idea of not wanting to point a weapon at something you don't want to shoot, like you kid's bed.
Two points.
1. It's not WML or hand light, It's BOTH. There will always be situations where you want to use a light to see and don't want to bring a gun along. Fine, I fully agree, and I agree way to many people get sloppy/lazy with the WML and use it to look under the car seat for the dropped cell phone etc.
2. There is NO need to point a WML and weapon at the kid's bed to see if they are ok. This is an ignorant mindset, ignorant meaning people who say this have no first hand experience with current generation WML. My first light, circa 2004, was a first generation Streamlight TLR-1. Rated at 120 lumens, or about what my foot long SL20 could put out. Current lights from both major manufactures put out over 1,000 lumens, able to illuminate a small room by pointing almost anywhere in the room.
Finally, to those talking about a light drawing fire, yes I absolutely know what your saying. BUT like I said before we are suppose to be the good guys, We are not operating in a total free fire zone. We have to identify the threat BEFORE we can fire, and that does put us at a disadvantage. Sorry but that's the cost of being the good guy.
Feel free to respond, but if you do please have something factual and relevant to say.
Almost forgot to address the original questions. Yes, the Gen 3 Glock 22/23 were found to sometimes have issues when lights were attached. Super slo-mo video showed the frames flexed during recoil with the added weight and could, depending on the ammo, size/strength of the shooter, temperature etc cause malfunctions.
New plastic frame designs with steel subframes, such as the Smith MP, Sigs 320, use don't have this issue because of the subframe. Also Glock seems to have gotten this issue under control in Gen 4 and 5 guns.
On metal frame guns the only issue is how the rail is attached. Surefire made a rail for 1911s that used a special replacement slide stop. Others were made using super epoxy or rivets. Results varied, which is part of the reason Smith went to the forged and machined rail in their last runs of TSW guns.
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Yeah, I've never fallen for the old "when you point your light, you are pointing your gun" idea. Like was mentioned above, most modern lights, anything under 15 yrs old, will light up a room when pointed down between 30 and 45 degrees. No pointing guns at anyone, while searching.
But you know, all the trainers that say that, have to say that! You can thank the lawyers...
But you know, all the trainers that say that, have to say that! You can thank the lawyers...
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Pointing the light up to reflect the light off the ceiling works better.
Enigma
US Veteran
My Gen 4 G22 would NOT run with a weapons light mounted on it. All I shot through it was 180 grain bullets, though. I never tried anything lighter before I sold it. The .40 S&W cartridge just doesn't excite me. My M&P 45C runs perfectly with one, though.
cmj8591
Member
I've picked up more broken weapon mounted lights off of the ground of police ranges than any other piece of equipment except for empty magazines. In a low light situation you need an illumination device and a gun. Not a gun that's a flashlight or a flashlight that is a gun. You should be able to train to operate a flashlight and a gun at the same time absent some physical deformity that prevents you from using two hands. The less complicated the gun is, the better. Just Google weapon mounted light accidents.
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