Light Strikes

[ggibson511960]

No Comment to OP

Read it again, 1 of 100, fired the 2nd time, not the gun.
The priming system on the lnl, like the 550, is not ideal. Primers need to seat in the bottom of the pocket, not flush with the case head, push harder! It is almost impossible to have a primer go off seating it properly. Mine all look a little flat, yes I push that hard. I never get a ftf on a primer, even cci n a glock.

My comment was not to the OP, nor about primer seating, nor to the speculation about light strikes or FTF. It was about the "heavy trigger" of another poster and the reasons for a "heavy trigger".

The only way I've ever been able to achieve a light strike or FTF in a S&W revolver is to back off the strain screw in a misdirected hope of achieving a light DA pull. There isn't much to go wrong in the fall of a hammer. Hammer could be rubbing side plates, or a broken firing pin, or gross excessived headspace, or a truly dirty handgun. Reloads are the overwhelmingly higher probability. You are correct that the primer anvil must contact the primer pocket bottom for reliable ignition. Otherwise the pin strike dissipates energy pushing the cup into the pocket rather than crushing the pellet against the anvil.

 

[Ed Fowler]

I just purchased a used 686 - 5, it had not been shot much but carried for a lot. The first shots I experienced a lot of "light strikes" I stripped her down and found:
Very clean but action was bone dry.
Ejector rod loose, would back out in about 9 shots.
The action did not appear to have ever known a drop of oil.
The strain screw was backed off one turn.
Cleaned the action with alcohol and sprayed it out then a few drops of Break Free and blew it out with compressor, tightened ejector rod and strain screw.
Simple as that, no more "light strikes". Love the revolver she needs a different front sight, the red inserts are not my favorite, may try some blue paint while searching for my little package of replacement pinned front sights.
I have never met a steel S&W I did not like.

 

[DBenn]

586 or 686 light strikes with a proper seated primer.
I found that Federal primers with a DA trigger pull set at 7.5-8lbs work every time.
All other primers will have a FTF periodically.

 

[SMSgt]

Won't help the LNL problem, but I use either a Lee or RCBS hand primer and seat all primers flush or below. I have never had a misfire with any brand of primer (CCI being my preferred) with any firearm, rifle or handgun.

 

[Rule3]

The last 400 rounds I loaded I went back to the RCBS Bench Primer instead of using the priming on the LNL AP Press to make sure it was not the gun. Not a single problem just like the 10,000 rounds primed before that using the RCBS Bench Primer. It seems that the LNL AP press does not seat the primers as deep. The fact that they go off on the second hit points to this even though they are flush. I need to get them slightly below flush. I’m not sure how to do that. The RCBS Bench Primer has a much better feel for primer seating than the LNL AP and rounds primed with it look and feel to have the primer seated deeper.

Using the RCBS Bench Primer is an extra step and takes away some of the advantages of a progressive press. For years I primed off the press before the LNL AP for various reasons, but I was hoping this time it would be different. When I shot in matches a FTF for any reason was just unacceptable. I guess I still have that mentality. Even 1 in 100 is 1 to many.

I thought about using another primer brand. I understand CCI primers are harder but never had a problem until now. Maybe a different brand would be better on the LNL AP but I have over 9,000 CCI primers.

Indeed, a dud is learning experience. It is unexpected and does show any faults in form. You just have to take a moment to be sure it not a hang fire.

With all progressives, Priming is the issue. The lnl also suffers this. Push harder, you arent going to set them off seating them.

Read it again, 1 of 100, fired the 2nd time, not the gun.
The priming system on the lnl, like the 550, is not ideal. Primers need to seat in the bottom of the pocket, not flush with the case head, push harder! It is almost impossible to have a primer go off seating it properly. Mine all look a little flat, yes I push that hard. I never get a ftf on a primer, even cci n a glock.

Folks read the above posts.

Fred explained it.

It seems pretty clear it is NOT the gun, NOT the Primers , NOT the press.

If it was, than there would be MORE failure to fire. Whatever "about" one in 100 rounds means? If they were indeed all seating "at least flush" then they would all go off and not need a second strike.??

It is how hard the OP pushes on the lever. I prime on the press and every so often lose track of pushing hard enough,and may get a light strike.

Speculation mode : OFF

 

[Nevada Ed]

For most of my pistol loading I have used a hand primer and can feel
the primer seat on the stroke.
I have not had a cci or f100 fail in the last three years with 38,357 or 9mm loadings.

A firm seating is just fine................

 

[stu1ritter]

On my LnL's I use a double push in the primer stroke. Over thousands of rounds I've come to learn the feel of the primer seating. If something doesn't feel right I pull that case and look at the primer. While a progressive lets you crank out ammunition, you can't try and let the press take the place of "feel". With normal "one at a time presses", you get to feel everything that is going on, all the time. Well, it's much harder with a progressive to get that feel, but it is there. I have loaded tens of thousands of rounds on my two LnL's and I can barely remember a FTF but then I don't try and load 500 an hour. Last week I loaded 400 rounds of .44Mag with new Starline brass and I had to pull about one in ten to reseat the primer, they just weren't feeling right and weren't seating properly, but I could feel it and correct each of the errant cases.

Stu

 

[muddocktor]

The problems that have been stated in this thread are the main reason why I rather prime off of my RL450 instead of using the priming system on it. The main thing I find that is lacking on the Dillon is "feel" and would rather deprime and size with just the sizing die on the Dillon. Then I inspect my brass visually and prime on my RCBS bench priming tool, which I find is superb for feel in bottoming out primers in the primer pocket. After that run of brass is primed, I then just run everything through my Dillon without the sizing die installed. I know that this method isn't the fastest way to load, but it serves me well for my needs. And I never have any failures to fire due to primers not being properly seated.

 

[cds43016]

By chance last night I was surfing YouTube and saw that 76HIghboy Reloading was doing a live chat. It was already started but they were in the middle of a discussion about the topic of this thread. 76Highboy Reloading has a whole series on setting up, adjusting, and tuning the Hornady LNL AP press. The series is excellent and have used his tips to solve other issues.
The discussion begins at 20:00.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D0jXv2XpNA[/ame]

 

[fredj338]

Primer feel is grossly over stated. Push the primer in hard, it will reach the bottom of the pocket. It hurts nothing to seat a bit too hard & slightly crush the primer.

 

[amazingflapjack]

If the 686 is a no dash, there was a recall involving the firing pin IIRC-the ones that went back had a "C" stamped next to model number, I think. Somebody will remember.

 

[cjwils]

I think some people may be confusing light strikes with normal strikes on bad primers or poorly seated primers. My 686 has a plenty good hammer strike, but it has sometimes failed to fire Magtech ammo. Other guns have also failed to fire Magtech, but fire all other ammo. If you gun fires most primers, then I say don't blame the gun first.

 

[argon18smith]

I use the Pro 1000 for all my reloads, 9mm, 38 spl and 357 mag. I have never had a problem with light strikes with any of my 9mm guns or with any 357 mag loads. I just have problems with 38 spl in my revolvers. I have a Coonan in 38 spl/357 mag and it never has a problem. Different configurations of guns but the same reloading methods. I have no answers.

 

[cds43016]

Primer feel is grossly over stated. Push the primer in hard, it will reach the bottom of the pocket. It hurts nothing to seat a bit too hard & slightly crush the primer.

The issue with the Hornady LNL Press has nothing to do with feel or how hard you press. As I discovered much to my chagrin, as did 76HIghtboy, you are physically limited on how far the primer can be seated. Push as hard as you want, the primer just won’t go in any deeper. I do press very hard as I do when I prime with the RCBS Bench Primer. The press is built with a hard stop. Hornady considers flush acceptable which can lead to primers not being seated fully. This can cause the occasional light strike or other problems. It’s an unfortunate design parameter built into the press. It’s also a problem that just gets worst over time as the primer seater plug wears into the press body. Since we are talking about just a few thousands of an inch, it doesn’t take much variation in components, either singerly or in concert, like the press body casting, shell plate or the primer punch to determine whether you have a problem or not. If the primer seats lush or slightly below, then Hornady considers it good enough and you get no help. Good enough is not good enough. Whether you have a problem or not, is a matter of luck.

Again, it’s not the gun. When I use the RCBS Bench Primer I had no light strikes over many thousands of rounds using the same components. The primers I know are seated fully.

As with many issues with this press, the design and quality control solutions are simple. Hornady just chooses not to implement them.

 

[Revolver Man]

What method were you using to speed up the hammer in double action mode?

 

[argon18smith]

In D/A is was squeezing the trigger very slowly. First the cylinder would rotate as I squeezed and the hammer was starting to come back, I kept squeezing till the cylinder locked and then squeezed more to get the hammer all the way back and then squeezed more until the sear released. To speed it up it was just a matter of a steady smooth squeeze from cylinder rotation to sear release. What I was doing originally was probably never what the firearm was designed to do.

 

[rockquarry]

I'm not familiar with the Hornady priming system, but I've experienced a few hand held priming tools that would not fully seat primers consistently. Two of these were the original Lee Auto Primes. After many years of use, normal wear prevented fully seating primers. Two others were new RCBS Universals. About 10% of the primers would not fully seat; a quality control problem, certainly not wear.

However, your problem could be normal wear; worth checking out.