Long trigger pull???

Rastoff

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I keep hearing people refer to the "long trigger pull" of the M&P. Sometimes it's mentioned as being part of any striker fired gun. I don't understand what they mean.

When this is said, does it include the slack?

I ask because all my M&Ps (3) have trigger pulls that are heavy, but just as short as any single action gun. They all have a lot of slack (except the one converted to an Apex FSS, but it did too before), but the actual trigger break is short and relatively crisp.

So, what am I missing?
 
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When this is said, does it include the slack?
Yes, and the takeup (or slack) is what the 1911 trigger fans hate on the M&P. IMHO (and APEX mentions this) their FSS that removes the takeup is recommended for competition only, not for street carry.

I like the "2-stage" trigger that lets me feel where I am and do not consider it a problem or "defect" in the design that needs fixing or modification. Many bolt action military rifles had a 2-stage trigger to facilitate precision long-range shooting, while still allowing a quick shot when needed.

I can't help but wonder if part of the current fad is that so many boys learn their "trigger feel" on the electric switches of video games, long before they try a real gun. A short, light, instant trigger certainly can mask a trigger yank.
 
I have no problems with the stock M&P trigger. The break on the trigger is very crisp and I have dry fired enough to know where it is going to break. I only have 400 rounds down range so far but I shoot this thing just as well as my Sig 1911.


I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees
 
I purchased a Sig P250 and the pull was ridiculously long. I ended up trading it for a Shield 9mm about three weeks after I bought it. I love the trigger on both my 9c and Shield. I don't find it to be long at all when comparing to other DA only pistols, especially the P250.


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The BG 380 has a long trigger pull, but its DAO.
I don't find the pull on my .40c to be long at all.
I've found that when I'm ready to shoot, I'll place my finger on the trigger and take up the slack, beginning the surprise break pull at that point. IMO the stock break is crisp and fairly light.
 
I agree that the M&P trigger pull is long. What I mean by long is from the point at which you start moving the trigger until it stops in the back of the trigger guard is a long distance. That includes over travel, the distance the trigger travels after releasing the firing mechanism, which is wasted movement. Most of that total distance is taking up slack, also called the first stage of a two stage trigger.

Proper trigger control, where the operator allows the trigger to travel forward only to the point of reset, not all the way to the initial forward starting position, eliminates the first stage of a two stage trigger after the first shot for faster follow up shots with less trigger movement.

First stage trigger movement, not engaging the firing mechanism but requiring conscious pressure to move it a distance to contact the firing mechanism, provides a margin of safety. The longer, and heavier, the first stage, the supposedly safer a trigger pull is under adrenalin pumped conditions.

The same theory of the first stage being a kind of safety is carried to a ridiculous extreme IMO in DA/SA pistols.

Most people firing striker fired pistols don't care too much how long the first stage is, as long as the second stage is manageable. If the second stage is long and/or heavy, gritty, or stacks, or has uneven hitches in it, then many consider improving it. They are looking for a more consistent, manageable trigger to fire the self defense pistol accurately and fast.

I feel the M&P triggers are unnecessarily long in pull for the first stage, and both my Shield and my FS M&P 9 had second stages that begged for improvement. The Apex kits took care of that, including on the FS the Apex FSS kit that shortens the first stage and lightens and smooths the second stage.

While I do not ascribe to light triggers (<4.5#) being an advantage in a combat pistol, I do believe a properly tuned trigger can increase the effectiveness of the gun. There is no advantage to a long first stage pull over a relatively shorter one for a trained individual who practices with the pistol and knows his trigger "feel". The second stage is the more critical one to get "right" for you.

S&W specifies the M&Ps are supposed to have a 6.5# trigger pull from the factory (4.5-5# for the tuned Pro/Core). While I have only pulled a factory trigger on a half dozen standard M&Ps, all have been much heavier than this and were not smooth. The actual second stage length of pull was not bad, but the second stage travel itself has numerous problems.

Factory triggers often are designed to meet lawyers' safety requirements for a lower than average shooter--the person who might get in trouble with a gun because of a lack of familiarity with it. They also are thrown together in the most economical and profitable manner, with their ability to make the pistol fire being the only real final QC required of them. It takes some extra time and effort to make the complicated system actually meet specs, and that costs more than most manufacturers are willing to put into a gun. Since so many consumers buy the pistols and believe the triggers are good, manufacturers have little incentive to do anything different. Better trigger = more $$, either from a higher end model (Pro/Core), the S&W custom shop, or aftermarket parts.

If all you have had is a black and white TV, it is fine; until you get a color one.
 
Wouldn't say it's long but it's definitely WAY too heavy. Coming to this trigger from a glock is kinda like going from power steering to driving a model T.
 
I would liken trigger pull to whiskey. If the expensive stuff is not available or un-affordable, one would get accustomed to what is available or what is offered by the host. Familiarity will instill comfort with what is available.

Many police departments dictate what weapons may be used and what modifications may or may not be made. In 1970 my department issued S&W revolvers, DAO, with a minimum trigger pull of 8 lbs. Later it was the S&W autos or the Beretta 92FS, double action first shot and single action thereafter.

I can understand the desire for improved accuracy and efficiency but when different guns and modifications are not an option one can, and generally will, overcome any shortcomings, perceived or actual. This is true for every gun sold today or they would not be sold tomorrow.

For competition, the gun or modifications can help increase speed and accuracy but I caution against hair triggers for defense weapons as they, too often, contribute to an accidental discharge. And, in California the accidental shooting of a person is a felony.
 
So, what am I missing?

Nothing.

The M&P, like the Glock, has a short trigger pull, with lots of slack. It is MUCH lighter than the service revolvers it was designed to replace, such as the K frame revolvers, so popular with LE agencies in past decades. The K frame models had 12 pound (roughly) DA triggers, while the striker fired autos run in the neighborhood of 6.5 to 8 pounds, which was unheard of in service revolvers, even highly tuned ones. The only thing close was a Python done up by Reeves Jungkind or Fred Sadowski.

So, you are right. I think part of the problem is that many new shooters have never owned or shot revolvers, and to old revolver guys like me, the current crop of striker-fired service pistols have triggers that are plenty light. The only thing missing is the super accuracy of the K frame, which even straight from the factory, could easily shoot 2 inch groups at 25 yards or further. Most of the relatively new shooters cannot shoot a 2 inch group at 5 yards, much less at 25 yards. Oh well.
 
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