Looking at some SAA clones. Any advice

[1sailor]

I've been seriously considering getting an 1873 Colt knockoff. There are a few companies that seem to be popular. These include Cimarron, Pietta, Uberti, and I guess some others. Not looking to spend a fortune. Pietta has a model out that is 45 Colt and also comes with a 45acp cylinder. I'm not very familiar with any of these companies other than just having heard their names before. I'm actually leaning toward the Pietta convertible but mainly because of the acp cylinder (I also shoot 45acp). Only planning on using it just to have some fun with. Nothing serious. I've got a lot of S&W 357's and just want something a little different. My first thought was one of the Ruger clones but they do not seem to be a "workingman's gun" any more. Mostly out of the price range I'm considering. Any help or advice welcomed here. Only want to buy it once. Thanks

 

[Echo40]

I'd look into getting a Heritage Arms Rough Rider, it's an incredibly cheap way to scratch the itch for a SAA.

Be clever, grin forever.

 

[GypsmJim]

I have a .45 Colt Ruger Vaquero, which is pretty close to a SAA. I have no experience with the other foreign made clones.

I have heard a lot about The Rough Riders, but never handled one until last week at the gun show.

Let's just say that my itch has gone away. I think I'll stick with my Ruger until my finances can handle a "real" one, or maybe even an Uberti.

 

[Fishinfool]

As a matter of fact, I do. The two main Italian manufacturers are Uberti and Pietta. Uberti used to be considered the slightly better made gun, but in recent years Pietta has stepped up its game, and is just as nice.

Both are imported by a number of firms, with Cimarron, EMF and Taylors & Company being most popular. Most are now imported with one of 3 safety systems - A longer base pin, a transfer bar, or a floating firing pin safety. 4 click guns usually use the longer base pin, and are getting hard to find. 3 click guns with the floating firing pin safety work well, and can be converted to 4 clicks if desired with a hammer / trigger replacement.

Other options are longer grip frame off an 1860 Colt Army, factory tuned and re-sprung actions, black powder or modern frame, and narrow V or wider square rear sight notch different grips, among others.

After looking at a few recently, I went with a Uberti "El Patron" (factory action job), "Grizzly Paw" (longer grip frame) model in .357 mag. Very slick action and light trigger pull. Very nicely finished, and the grip feels good in my big hands. Attached a quick pic of the new one with my USFA .44 spec / 44-40 convertible. Pic isn't great, but the Uberti is pretty close to the USFA in fit and finish, which is nice, especially considering the USFA is a 2K or more gun, the Uberti being about $650.00.

Larry

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

. My first thought was one of the Ruger clones but they do not seem to be a "workingman's gun" any more. Mostly out of the price range I'm considering. Any help or advice welcomed here. Only want to buy it once. Thanks

I did SASS Cowboy action Shooting very seriously from 1996 to 2014. I own several SAA clones. The only guns that hold up to the quantity of ammo shot in events and practice are Ruger Vaqueros, and the Blackhawk family! I have 2 clones in 357 and 4 in 45 Colt. The Uberti's hold up much better than the Pieta's. There also was Armi San Marcos. I have 3 ASM's that are now only "Gun Shaped Junk!"

I currently own two pair of Vaqueros. A 5.5" blue Beisley pair since the early 90's and a 4" Stainless pair that I've owned since that I've had since 2010. All of these were bought used. The Beisley pair have over 80,000 rounds each through them without a serious problem. (The ejector shrouds are aluminum and wear badly, steel replacement that match are available all over!) My Stainless pair have just less than 10,000 rounds each, again with no down time!

My Italian clones in 45 Colt and 44-40 WCF have minor problems starting 1000 +/- rounds. and major parts problems at 8000 rounds. Which is when I get rid of them, but some people do complete rebuilds at that time. The guns in 357 last much longer because they only get 38 Special target loads and go about twice as far before problems.

The reason my round counts are so high is that my wife and I shoot, along with sons, daughter and In-Laws shoot my guns and ammo!

Just so you know, real Colt SAA's need rebuilt somewhere around 80,000 to 125,000 according to friends that use them. Again, that depends on how much recoil they are generating.

The exception to all this has been one of my 357's! It isn't an Italian, It is a Saur & Shon from the 1960s. Faithful in size and function to a Colt, but finish "challenged"! If you can find used Saur's, minor parts (like springs) are interchangeable with Colts!

You will enjoy any single action you buy! How long the enjoyment lasts on how mush you shoot, how powerful you shoot and, how hi the original quality is!

Ivan

 

[smithra_66]

I have quite a bit of experience with both Colts and clones. The 7.5" SAA in 44-40 is my favorite handgun of all time.

One note: Cimarron, Taylors, EMF, Traditions, (and probably others) are American companies that import these guns and stamp their name on them. Some of them will do things like action slicking and some have unique specs, etc. but the only companies that make the guns are Pietta and Uberti, both in the Gardone gunmaking region of Italy. All these companies import both makes and stamp their names on them, so you make have to ask what you're getting if you go to these resellers. You can also buy straight from Pietta or Uberti on sites like Gunbroker.

For me, a 4 click action is a must. For that reason, I would not buy an Uberti. I do have one 4 click Uberti made before they went to the transfer bar system and it's great, so it's a shame they went away from the traditional Colt action. If I wanted something that was not 100% authentic, I would buy a Ruger. They are great guns and probably better than either Pietta or Uberti, so there's no need to buy a "clone" if it's not really a clone...Again, in my opinion.

That leaves Pietta. They still make only authentic 4 clickers, thank goodness. They are quite good as well. Most parts on a Pietta are mirror images of the Colt SAA itself. They are the most authentic of the Italian clones. I highly recommend them.

The only wildcard is making sure they hit to the sights. Many do but some don't (just like real SAAs) . Parts are readily available and you can do pretty much everything yourself as these guns are simple, or if it's something difficult there are no shortages of people that work on them.

I've got a couple Piettas that I like so much that I sent them to Grashorn for stag grips. I shoot them more than my Colt's because obviously the replacement value is much less.

I'd also recommend black powder (at least sometime) for the full experience. That's why I like the 44/40 so much...it's a much better black powder round than the 45 Colt because it seals the chambers much better.

Good luck in your search and let us know how you make out!

 

[MSD2343]

I have the Uberti Cattleman in .357. Has a beautiful finish and a very nice action, but only the three clicks. Wish it had the proper four clicks, but at $450 purchased brand new a few years ago, it screams value.

 

[jeffrefrig]

If I was in the market, I'd probably go with another Uberti. I had a .45 Colt, and I think it was called a cattleman or something, can't remember but it was 4 clicks and very reliable, good-looking brass with flat black cylinder and barrel. I put it up for consignment and it was sold before I got home. I thought Heritage was out of the .357 and .45 business, but I saw one of each brand new for about $400 each. I did have a .357 but the front sight was off; looking at the muzzle the sight was at about 11:58 o'clock. I gave that one to my son to mess around with. Other than the front sight, which is kinda important, the gun ran flawlessly. The 2 .22s I have are very reliable, although a little cheesy-lookin'. They both have .22 Mag cylinders with them. The Uberti was very sturdy as it was good looking.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

I have a "4-click" Pietta: in 45 Colt & wish it had the 45 acp conversion as well...

You'll love it if you are looking for a true "clone".

A Ruger single action is a different level, IMHO. For hunting, "Ruger Only" loads, etc., they are very hard to beat!

Cheers!

 

[DWalt]

Blackhawks are indestructible.

 

[Safestuffer]

If you want to scratch the itch for a single action new manufacturer, a heritage or wrangler for $125-$200 will get you something you can play with while watching a western in the evening.

If you want something a little better made but still a .22lr, you can find a decent used Ruger Single Six for a few hundred more.

If you want something centerfire, options range from $500 to over $1k from Uberti, Pietta, Cimmeron, etc. As has been said, most are variations from the same two manufacturers, and of the two I personally would choose a traditional 4 click Pietta. I have no interest in any of the newer hammer-safety designs released by Uberti. Above this price point you start seeing diminishing returns for the money you spend. If you just want a quality shooter, there is no reason to spend more than a good Pietta is worth.

If you want to step up, you can find used colts starting at about $1400 and up, new colts for $2500 and if you want the absolute highest quality SA money can buy, find a late production USFA but be prepared to start approaching Colt SAA prices.

Little secret...a late model USFA will put not all but most "genuine" Colts to shame.

Standard MFG is another high quality SA, but their quality is hit or miss and they have been purported to use some imported parts.

 

[6string]

OP:

. I've got a lot of S&W 357's ....

Personally, (since you're asking for opinions) I'd sell a couple of those Smiths and pair the money with whatever other cash you've got and get something great:
2nd gen Colt SAA or USFA Premium.

Skip the Italian imports. THEY'RE JUNK!
The manufacturers don't even stand behind them.

Ruger? They're tough, they can be accurate. But, they handle like a mini-van.
They never get near the finesse of a real SAA.

Buy once, cry once!

Just my opinion....
YMMV

 

[oink]

I certainly don't compete with it but I do enjoy my Ruger Blackhawk in 357/9mm. I also enjoy my Single Six in 22LR/Mag. I also have a Super Blackhawk in 44 Mag. I don't really enjoy that one much as the trigger guard just hammers the heck out of my middle knuckle. It would probably be fine with light loads, but then I have the Blackhawk for that.

 

[moralem]

Find yourself a Colt…….the same reason you collect Smiths versus a Taurus or Rossi is why.

 

[lestert357]

Find yourself a Colt…….the same reason you collect Smiths versus a Taurus or Rossi is why.

I don’t think those 4 Colts are seeing much range time; I don’t even see a drag line on any of them!

 

[JohnRippert]

I don’t think those 4 Colts are seeing much range time; I don’t even see a drag line on any of them!

You won't see a turn line on a properly working Colt SAA that has not had the hammer dropped from half cock. If you fully cock a SAA and lower the hammer the locking bolt does not contact until it is in the notch.



OP:

I agree with a couple of the others. Buy once, cry once. I found this 3rd gen .357 Colt for $1200 a few years back. Have never regretted buying it instead of a clone. Plus, I know I can get my money back if I have to sell it.

 

[canoeguy]

Nothing to add here except this great painting of a Cowgirl with SAA:

 

[Drm50]

Back when I started down this slippery slope I was in Jr. High. I. Had a couple buddies older and they had bought Hawes SA 44mags. It took me a couple months to come up with the $59.95 plus tax to get mine. On the big day we went to the LGS to get my Hawes. In the case right next to Hawes was Ruger SBH. I immediately lost interest in Hawes. Make long story short my old man kicked in the difference and I got the Ruger SBH. Also another short story was how long it took for my two buddies to trade their Hawes on Ruger SBHs. ( This is 10yrs before Dirty Harry ) Ruger Blackhawk series was at the time about $85, SBH about $120. A Colt SAA was about $159.95.
Ruger came in 44mg and had adjustable sights. Was a no brainer if you actually wanted a gun to hunt or serious target.
I got clear away from Ruger when they did New Model. That didn’t matter much cause I was already on S&Ws and least thing I was interested in was fixed sight SAs. I had owned a few Colt SAAs in early 70s. Never kept them long before trading off. Now for some reason I got the itch for a SAA but had to be a Colt. It took awhile looking, couple years, but found a deal on a
Colt. I was looking for a Gen 2, 4.75” in 44sp or 45. Just plain jane model.
Ended up I got a NIB, 2nd Gen 5.5” 45. It also has some minor light pitting in 3 spots that were incurred during extended storage. It is also a WVa commemorative with gold plated grip frame and unfluted cylinder. But the price was what you would pay for top end clone.
Having said that, if Ruger was making 3screw vaquero it would be no brainer. Although I don’t buy NM Rugers they are still best SAs on the market. If it were me I would look for a Colt. You can play with it for free if you take care of it, maybe make a few bucks. The clones take a beating when on used market. I see one of those outfits is selling a SA that comes with a distressed finish. If I couldn’t kick out a Colt, I would go after Ruger.

 

[sandog]

My experience has taught me that the Italian clones are far from junk.
Not only have they allowed thousands of guys to experience an SAA that could not have afforded a Colt or USFA Premium, but all of mine ( 8 Ubertis and one Pietta ) have been free of any problems.

I did have 3rd Gen Colt (here flanked by a Uberti and a Pietta) but it had problems. Some 3rd Gens were fine, but mine was not.

This Uberti made Cimarron has been my all time favorite.
It was above par in every way, but the grips that were on it were fit so poorly I suspected the guy I bought it from had swapped them from another gun. I put on a set of Colt grips I had in my grip drawer.

One thing the guy had done to it was add a Bisley hammer, which I have really grown to like, a bit lower and wider, it is easier to thumb back.
And on a gun where every shot has to be thumbed back, might as well make it to your liking.

I've had several Rugers, and the smaller Flattops and New Vaqueros come closer to the Colt SAA feel but any Ruger still feels like a brick compared to the SAA.
Same with the top break design. These Uberti Schofields are unique and cool, but sure don't have the balance and liveliness of the Model P.
Sure would be easier to unload the S&W with one hand while galloping on a horse though !

 

[moralem]

‘I don’t think those 4 Colts are seeing much range time; I don’t even see a drag line on any of them!’

‘You won't see a turn line on a properly working Colt SAA that has not had the hammer dropped from half cock. If you fully cock a SAA and lower the hammer the locking bolt does not contact until it is in the notch.’

The nickel gun is new to me, I can’t say whether it has had much range time. But the others have, and as mentioned by JR, properly handled and tuned SAA should seldom turn a line on the cylinder.
One of the guns is in .44sp and sees range time right along with my 24’s and the .45lc comes along when I bring out my 25s.
The nickel will come along when I bring out my nickel 29…..but that one isn’t so popular with me.