Looking for a HD Round

Polygon

Polygon

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I'm getting a shortened 12 gauge for HD. I've decided on using #4 bird shot. However, I've looked online and I've even been looking at local stores and I can't find it anywhere.

What gives? Anyone know where I can find some, either online or locally?
 
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Polygon said:
I'm getting a shortened 12 gauge for HD. I've decided on using #4 bird shot. However, I've looked online and I've even been looking at local stores and I can't find it anywhere.

What gives? Anyone know where I can find some, either online or locally?
Click to expand...

Looks like Midway has some.

But birdshot is for the birds. Buckshot will serve you better.
 
that'll keep you hunting ...
#4 lead was a good waterfowl shot ... many places won't let us swat ducks with it so its mostly gone. you might think about something like BB in one of the tungsten formulations if you cant quite wrap your mind around using 00 buck
 
Polygon said:
I've decided on using #4 bird shot.
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Are you sure you don't mean #4 BUCK shot? That's what I had in my shotgun when I lived some place where it was of some use.

I hope you don't have any ideas about "shooting to wound". It's a BAD idea and I GUARANTEE you that no home invader would consider it where you're concerned.
 
Ammunition to go has what you are looking for.

Pete
 
Plenty of places online sell #4 Buck. Cabelas generally has it.
 
Our WalMart had it, that's what I use. It's kinda hard to find in my area, too. Online may be the easiest way to find it.
cmort, it's not for wounding, at close ranges like inside the house it's plenty 'killer' stuff, and doesn't over-penetrate like oooobuck. Quite a few of the 'experts' I've read recommend it.
 
Chuck1217 said:
Our WalMart had it, that's what I use. It's kinda hard to find in my area, too. Online may be the easiest way to find it.
cmort, it's not for wounding, at close ranges like inside the house it's plenty 'killer' stuff, and doesn't over-penetrate like oooobuck. Quite a few of the 'experts' I've read recommend it.
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Exactly!

I don't want to wound, I want them dead but I don't want it going through the wall behind them as well. I ended up going to Cabelas and got some Winchester 1 1/4 oz #5. I couldn't find anything labeled as "birdshot." I assumed this was what I'm looking for, but being new to shotguns I'm not sure.
 
Polygon said:
Exactly!

I don't want to wound, I want them dead but I don't want it going through the wall behind them as well. I ended up going to Cabelas and got some Winchester 1 1/4 oz #5. I couldn't find anything labeled as "birdshot." I assumed this was what I'm looking for, but being new to shotguns I'm not sure.
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You bought bird shot, but it's not strong enough to be considered an adequate HD or SD round. As suggested earlier #4 buck is about the minimum you should load. JMO
 
StatesRightist said:
You bought bird shot, but it's not strong enough to be considered an adequate HD or SD round. As suggested earlier #4 buck is about the minimum you should load. JMO
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I've never shot anyone with a shotgun so I wouldn't know first hand. But I've been told by several LEO who have seen people shot with birdshot and 00 buck that even at close range the birdshot did not penetrate enough. And sometimes heavy clothing will stop birdshot altogether.
 
Polygon said:
Exactly!

I don't want to wound, I want them dead but I don't want it going through the wall behind them as well. I ended up going to Cabelas and got some Winchester 1 1/4 oz #5. I couldn't find anything labeled as "birdshot." I assumed this was what I'm looking for, but being new to shotguns I'm not sure.
Click to expand...

Polygon, nobody wants collateral damage when defending themselves. It's always a valid consideration.

A shotgun is not a "search the house" type of gun. While not recommended, if you feel the need to search use a handgun and a good light. But again, it's not recommended.

A shotgun should be a "holed up" type of gun. Retreat to a bedroom or safe room and let the bad guys come to you. Since your "holed up", the chance for collateral damage is lessened.

Depending on how your home is situated, you should probably plan ahead. If your married, your wife should also have a part in the planning and understand her role in it.

Planning for a fight in the home is different that on the street. The parameters in the home are almost always constant. On the street almost nothing is the same requiring a greater situational awareness and flexibility.
 
Some makers offer a reduced recoil buckshot load for police and in-the-home defense. I thing Aquila makes those short 2in shells , but they may not cycle reliably in some guns. 2 layers of 3/8 sheetrock that make the walls in homes today don't offer much resistance.

I too am a believer in the coarse bird shot for in the home. If you look realistically at the longest distance ya might use a shotgun within your home , and test-pattern your gun & load at a range , you'll find that coarse shot load will hit pretty mush en-mass. Making for a terrible wound and little chance of collateral damage beyond. Like a 1oz Glaser safety slug.
 
Kanewpadle said:
I've never shot anyone with a shotgun so I wouldn't know first hand. But I've been told by several LEO who have seen people shot with birdshot and 00 buck that even at close range the birdshot did not penetrate enough. And sometimes heavy clothing will stop birdshot altogether.
Click to expand...

The craziest thing I know of first hand is a BG coming out of a store robbery tried to pull on an LEO friend of mine, who responded with a single .357 round to the chest, it hit the heart in one quadrant. The guy ceased trying to pull the gun and dropped his hands to his sides, but kept walking, he made it over a block before falling over dead.

Besides marveling at only one shot being fired, I learned something. Not only do drugs, size etc affect the effectiveness of a round, but if a .357 in the chest is not always an instant stopper, I'm not going light in ammo or gun, ever. JMO. YMMV.
 
StatesRightist said:
Here's but one example of expert opinion on bird shot below.

Take about 3 minutes and Google Bird shot for SD, you'll find no expert supporting it....or Glasers or any of that other ****. Yes, it causes horrific wounds, but it does not stop the threat from shooting you. Wounding does not equal neutralizing the threat.

Do what you want, but from most people who study this type of stuff will tell you it's a mistake.

Self-defense shotgun shell selection guide & FAQ
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I'm not trying to bash anyone, I would just hate to see one of the good guys get hurt for lack of knowledge. Feel free to ignore the advice, I've assuaged my conscience. :)
 
And just what is 'close range' and how many shootings have these so-called experts been involved in. I don't live in a mansion , so the farthest straight-shot distance here is about 25ft. Who's willing to put on a thick jacket and let someone shoot them with a 12ga, 2-3/4in, 1-1/4oz load of #2 shot at 25ft?

I've shot 1/2in plywood at this distance and big ragged hole was the result.
 
mkk41 said:
And just what is 'close range' and how many shootings have these so-called experts been involved in. I don't live in a mansion , so the farthest straight-shot distance here is about 25ft. Who's willing to put on a thick jacket and let someone shoot them with a 12ga, 2-3/4in, 1-1/4oz load of #2 shot at 25ft?

I've shot 1/2in plywood at this distance and big ragged hole was the result.
Click to expand...

Read the article link, I posted. I think that one was penned by Doc Roberts, maybe. You are the one who has to live with your decisions. Your conclusions are going against expert consensus, but I respect your right to make your own choice. I'm not telling you you are wrong, my response was based on two things, consensus and things I've seen, including the example I gave. YMMV, either way let's hope neither of us ever has to raise a gun to another person again. Have a good day.

and I don't want shot at 20 yds w/ a BB gun for the record. :)
 
I wouldn't worry too much about rounds going through the walls. Attempting to integrate that specification into your selection of ammo will result in a list of zero choices. even #8 trap loads will defeat a wall.
Its just a fact we all have to live with with any firearm in this capacity. As someone else stated in a rather useless thread some months earlier, it is reasonable to expect to be able to punch a hole through drywall with your fist, it is not a reasonable expectation to do the same with a bad guy. If ones fist is taken in the same context as a projectile, and it can be. Then no projectile incapable of penetrating a wall will be capable of penetrating a bad guy.
Now I can relate to your concerned here. I have quite enough to do around this house of mine without adding patching bullet holes in the walls after a gunfight to the already massive todo list. But, if I must, I must.
 
One wuick thing, re" over penetration- it's not so much the shot will go thru the BG THEN thru the wall, but if some pellets miss they won't be as dangerous. As for the #5 shot, I've read several times 4, 5 or 6 is good. I've also seen tests where buckshot did not go thru walls, it all depends- some rounds have tight wads that keep the shot together, all kinds of options- each to his own, and each to how much time, research they wanta put into it. I read some opinions by some 'experts' and make the most reasonable choice for me, including cost of practice, patterns etc. I figure if I feed someone #4 shot from 25 feet they ain't likely to want seconds.
 
mkk41 said:
And just what is 'close range' and how many shootings have these so-called experts been involved in. I don't live in a mansion , so the farthest straight-shot distance here is about 25ft. Who's willing to put on a thick jacket and let someone shoot them with a 12ga, 2-3/4in, 1-1/4oz load of #2 shot at 25ft?

I've shot 1/2in plywood at this distance and big ragged hole was the result.
Click to expand...

Just to make sure there are no misconceptions on my thoughts, we disagree on the bird shot thing and people poked a little fun, but I have the utmost respect for your service to your the Country. Not hard feelings here, just guys being guys from my end. Thank you for your service.
 
No offense taken. Just stated my opinion , with my reasoning behind it. Growing up where I did (2 mile hike thru the woods to the old county landfill) , my friends and I got to shoot a lot of odd things with all manners of firearms and note the damage. Old cars , refridgerators , propane and oxygen tanks , and wood of all types and thicknesses , plywood to planks.

Either way , my defensive handguns are loaded with Glaser Safety Slugs and IIRC , my closet 870 is currently loaded with 2 hi-brass #2s followed by 2 #4 buck..
 
Wow!

Thanks for all the information everyone. So very eye opening posts.

StatesRightist said:
I'm not trying to bash anyone, I would just hate to see one of the good guys get hurt for lack of knowledge. Feel free to ignore the advice, I've assuaged my conscience. :)
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for posting that link. That helps a lot. Look like I'll be using this for shooting clays. I'll be picking up some 00 buck shortly.

Here's the one question I have. What about exterior walls. At least I can control what interior walls I could potentially shoot through, theoretically. Will 00 buck easily penetrate an exterior wall? I don't want any part of the round leaving the house.
 
Polygon said:
Wow!

Thanks for all the information everyone. So very eye opening posts.



Thank you so much for posting that link. That helps a lot. Look like I'll be using this for shooting clays. I'll be picking up some 00 buck shortly.

Here's the one question I have. What about exterior walls. At least I can control what interior walls I could potentially shoot through, theoretically. Will 00 buck easily penetrate an exterior wall? I don't want any part of the round leaving the house.
Click to expand...

Your questions are tough to answer because there are no "pat" answers.

Only you know the construction of your home. One common misconception is that you don't have to aim a shotgun but merely point in the general direction and shoot. That's wrong.

You do have to aim a shotgun just like you would a handgun unless the bad guy is on top of you .

And again, if your holed up in a bedroom your shooting distance won't be that far. Maybe 10 yards or less depending on how big your bedroom is. Awfully hard to miss at 10 yards but it has happened.

Pattern your shotgun with the ammo you choose and see how it does. Even at 15 yards it is possible for one or more 00 buck pellets to miss the target.

Your will have to solve the part of the problem yourself. What lies beyond your doorway? Another wall? Two or three walls? Bathroom or kitchen?
 
Last edited:
How about #4 buckshot then. Only slightly smaller pellets , but several more of them. Only slightly less penetration than 00 buck.
 
mkk41 said:
How about #4 buckshot then. Only slightly smaller pellets , but several more of them. Only slightly less penetration than 00 buck.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't know first hand but I've heard both sides of the argument several times. Some say use only 00 buck or slugs and others say 4 buck is OK. WHO KNOWS!! :p:rolleyes:

Personally I think 4 buck would be fine. However, I've heard that tactical buckshot will hold a pattern better than non tactical. Maybe thats the answer. If we don't miss,then we don't have a problem. ;)
 
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