Looking for a HD Round

[Polygon]

I'm getting a shortened 12 gauge for HD. I've decided on using #4 bird shot. However, I've looked online and I've even been looking at local stores and I can't find it anywhere.

What gives? Anyone know where I can find some, either online or locally?

 

[Kanewpadle]

I'm getting a shortened 12 gauge for HD. I've decided on using #4 bird shot. However, I've looked online and I've even been looking at local stores and I can't find it anywhere.

What gives? Anyone know where I can find some, either online or locally?

Looks like Midway has some.

But birdshot is for the birds. Buckshot will serve you better.

 

[venomballistics]

that'll keep you hunting ...
#4 lead was a good waterfowl shot ... many places won't let us swat ducks with it so its mostly gone. you might think about something like BB in one of the tungsten formulations if you cant quite wrap your mind around using 00 buck

 

[cmort666]

I've decided on using #4 bird shot.

Are you sure you don't mean #4 BUCK shot? That's what I had in my shotgun when I lived some place where it was of some use.

I hope you don't have any ideas about "shooting to wound". It's a BAD idea and I GUARANTEE you that no home invader would consider it where you're concerned.

 

[pete950]

Ammunition to go has what you are looking for.

Pete

 

[krdshrk]

Plenty of places online sell #4 Buck. Cabelas generally has it.

 

[Chuck1217]

Our WalMart had it, that's what I use. It's kinda hard to find in my area, too. Online may be the easiest way to find it.
cmort, it's not for wounding, at close ranges like inside the house it's plenty 'killer' stuff, and doesn't over-penetrate like oooobuck. Quite a few of the 'experts' I've read recommend it.

 

[Polygon]

Our WalMart had it, that's what I use. It's kinda hard to find in my area, too. Online may be the easiest way to find it.
cmort, it's not for wounding, at close ranges like inside the house it's plenty 'killer' stuff, and doesn't over-penetrate like oooobuck. Quite a few of the 'experts' I've read recommend it.

Exactly!

I don't want to wound, I want them dead but I don't want it going through the wall behind them as well. I ended up going to Cabelas and got some Winchester 1 1/4 oz #5. I couldn't find anything labeled as "birdshot." I assumed this was what I'm looking for, but being new to shotguns I'm not sure.

 

[StatesRightist]

Exactly!

I don't want to wound, I want them dead but I don't want it going through the wall behind them as well. I ended up going to Cabelas and got some Winchester 1 1/4 oz #5. I couldn't find anything labeled as "birdshot." I assumed this was what I'm looking for, but being new to shotguns I'm not sure.

You bought bird shot, but it's not strong enough to be considered an adequate HD or SD round. As suggested earlier #4 buck is about the minimum you should load. JMO

 

[Kanewpadle]

You bought bird shot, but it's not strong enough to be considered an adequate HD or SD round. As suggested earlier #4 buck is about the minimum you should load. JMO

I've never shot anyone with a shotgun so I wouldn't know first hand. But I've been told by several LEO who have seen people shot with birdshot and 00 buck that even at close range the birdshot did not penetrate enough. And sometimes heavy clothing will stop birdshot altogether.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Exactly!

I don't want to wound, I want them dead but I don't want it going through the wall behind them as well. I ended up going to Cabelas and got some Winchester 1 1/4 oz #5. I couldn't find anything labeled as "birdshot." I assumed this was what I'm looking for, but being new to shotguns I'm not sure.

Polygon, nobody wants collateral damage when defending themselves. It's always a valid consideration.

A shotgun is not a "search the house" type of gun. While not recommended, if you feel the need to search use a handgun and a good light. But again, it's not recommended.

A shotgun should be a "holed up" type of gun. Retreat to a bedroom or safe room and let the bad guys come to you. Since your "holed up", the chance for collateral damage is lessened.

Depending on how your home is situated, you should probably plan ahead. If your married, your wife should also have a part in the planning and understand her role in it.

Planning for a fight in the home is different that on the street. The parameters in the home are almost always constant. On the street almost nothing is the same requiring a greater situational awareness and flexibility.

 

[mkk41]

Some makers offer a reduced recoil buckshot load for police and in-the-home defense. I thing Aquila makes those short 2in shells , but they may not cycle reliably in some guns. 2 layers of 3/8 sheetrock that make the walls in homes today don't offer much resistance.

I too am a believer in the coarse bird shot for in the home. If you look realistically at the longest distance ya might use a shotgun within your home , and test-pattern your gun & load at a range , you'll find that coarse shot load will hit pretty mush en-mass. Making for a terrible wound and little chance of collateral damage beyond. Like a 1oz Glaser safety slug.

 

[StatesRightist]

I've never shot anyone with a shotgun so I wouldn't know first hand. But I've been told by several LEO who have seen people shot with birdshot and 00 buck that even at close range the birdshot did not penetrate enough. And sometimes heavy clothing will stop birdshot altogether.

The craziest thing I know of first hand is a BG coming out of a store robbery tried to pull on an LEO friend of mine, who responded with a single .357 round to the chest, it hit the heart in one quadrant. The guy ceased trying to pull the gun and dropped his hands to his sides, but kept walking, he made it over a block before falling over dead.

Besides marveling at only one shot being fired, I learned something. Not only do drugs, size etc affect the effectiveness of a round, but if a .357 in the chest is not always an instant stopper, I'm not going light in ammo or gun, ever. JMO. YMMV.

 

[StatesRightist]

Here's but one example of expert opinion on bird shot below.

Take about 3 minutes and Google Bird shot for SD, you'll find no expert supporting it....or Glasers or any of that other ****. Yes, it causes horrific wounds, but it does not stop the threat from shooting you. Wounding does not equal neutralizing the threat.

Do what you want, but from most people who study this type of stuff will tell you it's a mistake.

Self-defense shotgun shell selection guide & FAQ

I'm not trying to bash anyone, I would just hate to see one of the good guys get hurt for lack of knowledge. Feel free to ignore the advice, I've assuaged my conscience.

 

[mkk41]

And just what is 'close range' and how many shootings have these so-called experts been involved in. I don't live in a mansion , so the farthest straight-shot distance here is about 25ft. Who's willing to put on a thick jacket and let someone shoot them with a 12ga, 2-3/4in, 1-1/4oz load of #2 shot at 25ft?

I've shot 1/2in plywood at this distance and big ragged hole was the result.

 

[StatesRightist]

And just what is 'close range' and how many shootings have these so-called experts been involved in. I don't live in a mansion , so the farthest straight-shot distance here is about 25ft. Who's willing to put on a thick jacket and let someone shoot them with a 12ga, 2-3/4in, 1-1/4oz load of #2 shot at 25ft?

I've shot 1/2in plywood at this distance and big ragged hole was the result.

Read the article link, I posted. I think that one was penned by Doc Roberts, maybe. You are the one who has to live with your decisions. Your conclusions are going against expert consensus, but I respect your right to make your own choice. I'm not telling you you are wrong, my response was based on two things, consensus and things I've seen, including the example I gave. YMMV, either way let's hope neither of us ever has to raise a gun to another person again. Have a good day.

and I don't want shot at 20 yds w/ a BB gun for the record.

 

[cmort666]

I've shot 1/2in plywood at this distance and big ragged hole was the result.

I don't know anybody's who's been attacked by a sheet of plywood... of ANY thickness...

 

[StatesRightist]

I don't know anybody's who's been attacked by a sheet of plywood... of ANY thickness...

........

 

[venomballistics]

I wouldn't worry too much about rounds going through the walls. Attempting to integrate that specification into your selection of ammo will result in a list of zero choices. even #8 trap loads will defeat a wall.
Its just a fact we all have to live with with any firearm in this capacity. As someone else stated in a rather useless thread some months earlier, it is reasonable to expect to be able to punch a hole through drywall with your fist, it is not a reasonable expectation to do the same with a bad guy. If ones fist is taken in the same context as a projectile, and it can be. Then no projectile incapable of penetrating a wall will be capable of penetrating a bad guy.
Now I can relate to your concerned here. I have quite enough to do around this house of mine without adding patching bullet holes in the walls after a gunfight to the already massive todo list. But, if I must, I must.

 

[venomballistics]

I don't know anybody's who's been attacked by a sheet of plywood... of ANY thickness...

I don't know dude ... in some projects past, I coulda swore the plywood was conspiring to gang up on me