"LOST IN BATTLE" Wounded Knee - South Dakota (((If these guns could talk!!)))

[THREEDFLYER]

"LOST IN BATTLE" Wounded Knee - South Dakota (((If these guns could talk!!)))

Thought I would share these photos with you guys......and if these guns could talk it would probably be one hell of a story!!!

A long time friend of mine had these hanging on his wall for many years and I was recently able to acquire them. He was not the one who found them, but they were supposedly found at or near the Wounded Knee site in SD some years back.

The rifle is a 3rd model Winchester 1873 chambered in 44 W.C.F. with a 24" barrel......and as you can see, it's cocked and locked. The brass cartridge carrier was cleaned so the caliber marking could be read.

Next is a 6" barrel cap/ball small frame revolver. Thinking it might be a Whitney pocket .31 caliber 5-shot. Three of the 5 chambers are empty, the one visible chamber is loaded and the hammer is back on what I would assume to be another loaded chamber.

Hope you enjoy this stuff as much as I do!

























Above is another Whitney .31 Caliber that I found to show what the firearm looked like in functioning condition.

 

[llowry61]

How could you not like that ! The one that is cocked is just crazy, someone didn't just set a cocked revolver down and walk away.

Incredible finds.

 

[Ozark Marine]

Beyond cool.
I'd probably spend too many hours just staring at them hanging on the wall with thoughts of all the possible scenario's those guns played a part in history.
Might even bring them to a physic to see if anything "spiritual" is attached to them.

 

[THREEDFLYER]

How could you not like that ! The one that is cocked is just crazy, someone didn't just set a cocked revolver down and walk away.

Incredible finds.

My feelings exactly! But if you look closely.....they are BOTH cocked and I am sure were found at different times.

 

[THREEDFLYER]

So here's a photo of a Whitney .31 percussion pocket type II revolver that was made prior to 1890.......looks like the same revolver, even the hammer is the same style.

 

[Ranger514]

Wounded Knee wasn't a battle...it was a massacre. Cool guns, though.

 

[JayFramer]

So here's a photo of a Whitney .31 percussion pocket type II revolver that was made prior to 1890.......looks like the same revolver, even the hammer is the same style.

Probably prior to 1870. Percussion revolvers were only made until 1873 when the army Colt's came out, by and large. I don't know of any percussion revolver made after 1890.

 

[vigil617]

I can't share your enthusiasm over guns that were at the massacre, though it is remotely possible, I suppose, that either or both might have been owned by the victims instead of the cavalrymen.

A terrible, tragic day in the dead of winter, with mostly old men, women, and children of Big Foot's small band falling to the 7th Cavalry's Hotchkiss guns, rifles, and pistols, and thrown into a mass grave when it was all over.

One shot -- never determined fired by which side -- followed by what can only be described as wanton slaughter.

 

[Kurusu]

I can't share your enthusiasm over guns that were at the massacre, though it is remotely possible, I suppose, that either or both might have been owned by the victims instead of the cavalrymen.

A terrible, tragic day in the dead of winter, with mostly old men, women, and children of Big Foot's small band falling to the 7th Cavalry's Hotchkiss guns, rifles, and pistols, and thrown into a mass grave when it was all over.

One shot -- never determined fired by which side -- followed by what can only be described as wanton slaughter.

Not the brightest moment of USA History for sure.

 

[Ranger514]

I apologize for highjacking this thread, but I thought you might want to see how the NA community is currently dealing with the Wounded Knee Massacre in a positive manner. I was raised in western SD, and during the 1970s, resentment and racial prejudice spilled over into violence. Both the White and NA communities are actively pursuing a healing process. It will take time, and it may never be complete, but at least they're moving in the right direction.
25th Year Reunion Ride - Healing The Heart of Humanity

 

[vigil617]

I apologize for highjacking this thread, but I thought you might want to see how the NA community is currently dealing with the Wounded Knee Massacre in a positive manner. I was raised in western SD, and during the 1970s, resentment and racial prejudice spilled over into violence. Both the White and NA communities are actively pursuing a healing process. It will take time, and it may never be complete, but at least they're moving in the right direction.
25th Year Reunion Ride - Healing The Heart of Humanity

Thank you for posting this, Ranger. Triple like, if it were possible.

Dee Brown's 1970s best-selling book, "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee," was an important one in my life. I intend no disrespect to the OP, and certainly the weapons are interesting examples in and of themselves from that time period. They speak to a very different time, indeed, and it is amazing they were recovered to be saved for posterity.

 

[THREEDFLYER]

I appreciate all the comments on this thread and I have NO idea if these guns are actually from a battleground or were just dug up somewhere on the prairie at some point in time.

Yes, they could certainly have been in the hands of Native Americans, civilians or US Military personnel but this thread is simply about the guns, not the politics of the event.

Everyone knows that Wounded Knee was indeed a MASSACRE and not a battle.....that is not being disputed here. I have no idea who made up this display or the brass tag that is on it, but I am sure it was not done to mock the event.

Regardless, someone obviously died or was captured before firing the rounds that are loaded in these weapons......a sad day for sure!

 

[THREEDFLYER]

Few more items added

I added a few more relic items to the board.
These items were found at the Fort Custer site and include nails, shell casings and projectiles. The soldiers were told to crush their empty cases to prevent them from being reloaded if found.

The fields around the site of Fort Custer became agriculture areas and for many years items would surface when the fields were plowed each spring.

 

[Shark Bait]

I like it a lot. It is important to remember the history, especially the bad parts. It should not be ignored or forgotten just because it is uncomfortable. Great display.

 

[vigil617]

I didn't even know there was a Fort Custer until I looked it up. I take it the one you mean is the one that was near Hardin, MT, and not the current National Guard one in Michigan near Battle Creek.

 

[jag312]

When we talk about Wounded Knee, let's not forget the fight at Drexel Mission. As retaliation for Wounded Knee, Chief Two Strikes organized an ambush of the 7th Cavalry. If it wasn't for the 9th Cavalry, The Buffalo Soldiers, riding in to save the 7th, there would have been another massacre. Only this time it would have been the 7th being buried.

One of the Springfield Cavalry Carbines in my collection was shipped to the 7th in March 14, 1888, and was used at Wounded Knee. Years later it was given by the 7th to a veteran of the 9th Cavalry. I need to do more research to see what the 9th Cavalry veteran did for the 7th to remember him. I assume he saved someone's important butt at the Drexel Mission Fight. Col. James Forsyth maybe?

 

[THREEDFLYER]

I didn't even know there was a Fort Custer until I looked it up. I take it the one you mean is the one that was near Hardin, MT, and not the current National Guard one in Michigan near Battle Creek.

I am indeed speaking of FORT CUSTER that was located not far from the battle of Little Big Horn. The fort was put up a in 1877 soon after the demise of Custer and his troops.

There was a fellow named George E. Polka who would head to the area each spring when the fields around the fort were being plowed and he and some freinds would search the area for relics sometimes using metal detectors. They found many items and I have a small box full of such items along with a copy of the book George wrote called "FORT CUSTER 1877-1898 Then & Now"

 

[vigil617]

When we talk about Wounded Knee, let's not forget the fight at Drexel Mission. As retaliation for Wounded Knee, Chief Two Strikes organized an ambush of the 7th Cavalry. If it wasn't for the 9th Cavalry, The Buffalo Soldiers, riding in to save the 7th, there would have been another massacre. Only this time it would have been the 7th being buried.

One of the Springfield Cavalry Carbines in my collection was shipped to the 7th in March 14, 1888, and was used at Wounded Knee. Years later it was given by the 7th to a veteran of the 9th Cavalry. I need to do more research to see what the 9th Cavalry veteran did for the 7th to remember him. I assume he saved someone's important butt at the Drexel Mission Fight. Col. James Forsyth maybe?

The Drexel Mission fight, which occurred about 15 miles from Wounded Knee on the day after the massacre, was a straight-up battle between two armed forces, and yes, the Buffalo Soldiers saved Col. Forsyth (who had commanded at Wounded Knee) that day. It is considered the last battle between the Army and the Native Americans, and its proximity to the massacre site could mean that the guns in the OP's photos came from that fight. Guess we'll never know for sure. Comparing the two engagements, though, it's very clear that they were worlds apart -- one was a wartime battle between warrior-combatants, the other a massacre of people who had surrendered and were being disarmed when a shot rang out.

 

[sigp220.45]

Well, 31 U.S. soldiers were killed and 25 more injured at Wounded Knee so SOMEBODY was shooting back.

The excesses on the US side were real, well documented, and inexcusable, but it was a different time and a different kind of war.

 

[Kurusu]

Well, 31 U.S. soldiers were killed and 25 more injured at Wounded Knee so SOMEBODY was shooting back.

The excesses on the US side were real, well documented, and inexcusable, but it was a different time and a different kind of war.

Wouldn't you shoot back? Just asking.

Edit. I know I would, given half a chance.