lots of questions from a soon to be gun-owner

[durango]

Hi there,

In my youth, I only owned and shot a Red Ryder and a Daisy 880 air rifle. I've never really seen much personal reason to own a gun until recently. My fiance's dad likes to go shooting at the range, her brother and my new bro-in-law are also into guns. To top it all off, my dad just bought a nice Springfield XD pistol.

Combine all that with what I expect will be some interesting times over the next four years with 2nd Amendment issues and I've quickly come to realize that I need to get on board and find a good gun to shoot at the range. My fiance is on-board with the idea too, after watching the chaos with Sandy in the northeast.

I've been reading everything I can on the web about different models and types of guns. I hope you guys don't mind if I ask some questions with the understanding that I really am a novice.

I've been looking at starting with a .22 cal rifle/carbine. I feel like this would be a good starter since I was very comfortable shooting with an air rifle as a kid and the ammo is more affordable.

I'm looking at the Ruger 10/22 and the M&P15-22 from a reliability and "tool vs. toy" perspective.

One of my concerns with the 15-22 is that I gather from postings I've read that it is almost entirely (except the barrel and part of the upper) made of plastic/polyurethane. Am I understanding this correctly?

My old Daisy 880 had a plastic stock but metal guts. How long do plastic/polyurethane guts in guns last and are they as reliable as metal parts?

I realize the 15-22 is a newer gun, but is it probably an investment that I can expect to last for 10+ years?

Can I find replacement parts for a 15-22 easily or do I have to send it back to S&W for servicing?

Can I use a 15-22 to hunt for small game if my extended family makes an offer to take me along or is it more of a fun range shooter and not really a hunting tool per se?

Would a 15-22 be easy for a novice shooter (me) to get used to?

Is a 15-22 easy for a smaller person (my fiance) to fire and control?

I'd appreciate any thoughts and advice you might have.
Thanks!

 

[PainterlyShotgroup]

First of all welcome to the forum and welcome to the wonderful world of firearms! You will find a lot of great members here with a wealth of knowledge and no question is a dumb question, unless it isn't asked.

You really can't go wrong with either a 10/22 or the 15-22. They are both great rifles and will serve you well. It really depends on the kind of shooting you want to do. The 10/22 is more geared towards precision shooting while the 15-22 is based on the AR platform and while it isn't pin point accurate, it is accurate enough and very fun to shoot. It will also get you ready for it's bigger brother, the AR15. You can hunt with both and accessorize the heck out of both. So it really comes down to what kind of shooting you plan to do and what kind of platform you want.

The 15-22 has a polymer (not polyurethane) frame and upper receiver/quad rail. However, the innards are metal. The fire control group is the same as a real AR15. The barrel is metal and the the bolt is metal.

Personally, I'd go with the 15-22. The cool factor is through the roof!

The 15-22 is very light and easy to control as is the 10/22 and they are both great rifles to start out with.

 

[TunaFisherman]

I have both. But in my opinion you should start with a bolt action .22 and learn how to shoot first since your new. Much more to it then just being a owner.
That said welcome to the world of firearms once you buy one...it won't be your last. Go shooting with someone and try out both guns if possible.

 

[ragingyeti]

Lots of questions, and that's good. I have been shooting a couple years now, and am still very much a novice. As long as you keep asking questions, you will keep building knowledge. Eventually you will be helping the new people.

Anyway, to answer your questions, the 15-22 is polymer, and you should not worry about it. As long as you take care of it with proper maintenance, it should last you forever. That said, if anything breaks it is all proprietary and there are very few aftermarket parts specifically for the 15-22 and will have to be sent to Smith and Wesson for service.

However, most AR15 accessories will fit when you want to enhance your rifle, including triggers, optics, pistol grips, and handguards if you don't mind putting a little work into it.

Lots of people use the 15-22 for small varmit hunting. You won't kill a deer, but small rodents you should be fine.

22 long rifle is a great choice for a first caliber. It's cheap so you can practice a lot, and has minimal recoil. Your fiance will probably like your 15-22 so much that she ends up getting her own. My 15-22 is my girlfriend's favorite of my guns (out of a 9mm Sig pistol, 5.56 AR15, and the 15-22).

I can't tell you if it is better than a 10/22 as I never owned one, but I can tell you that if you buy one, you won't regret it.

Good luck

 

[Majorlk]

There is nothing weak or toy about the 15-22s polymer parts. A significant percentage of all pistol frames are now made of the same stuff, and no one considers Glocks, S&W's M&P series, Springfield's XD series (and many others) "toys". Both of my carry firearms have polymer frames; I trust my life to them.

I have both a Ruger 10/22 and a S&W M&P15-22 and I haven't had the 10/22 out of the vault since I bought the 15-22 a year ago - and I have 8 or 9 thousand rounds through it.

My 9 year old grandson is getting one for Christmas and my 16 year old grandson is getting one for his birthday.

 

[rraisley]

I'm looking at the Ruger 10/22 and the M&P15-22 from a reliability and "tool vs. toy" perspective.

I considered both as well, and ended up with the M&P 15-22 MOE.

One of my concerns with the 15-22 is that I gather from postings I've read that it is almost entirely (except the barrel and part of the upper) made of plastic/polyurethane. Am I understanding this correctly?

The polymer is quite strong and I wouldn't worry much about that. Remember that most pistols our military and law enforcement now use often have polymer frames.

My old Daisy 880 had a plastic stock but metal guts. How long do plastic/polyurethane guts in guns last and are they as reliable as metal parts?

As others have said, the bolt and other critical parts are metal. The guts should last a long, long time.

Would a 15-22 be easy for a novice shooter (me) to get used to?

The 15-22 was my first (and so far is still my only) rifle, and I found it VERY easy to get used to. Very adjustable and adaptable to your needs, etc.

Is a 15-22 easy for a smaller person (my fiance) to fire and control?

Here, the 15-22 will have a big advantage. It's much lighter, and the stock is adjustable in length, making it work for a smaller person MUCH better than the Ruger.

Just hold both, and if your fiance is going to shoot it, have HER hold it. You'll get the 15-22. Of course, if she has her choice, and if it's available, she'll want one in PINK! (here)

 

[crofoot629]

10-22.
Older more metal, less plastic ones in like new condition abound for around $250.

Emory

 

[johnt111]

I have both and the 10-22 is more accurrate because it is a match model, but much heavier. Not as reliable as the 15-22 as way to many failures to feed. The 15-22 is easier to clean and much more fun. I hardly use the 10-22 anymore.

 

[aguablanco]

I have both. But in my opinion you should start with a bolt action .22 and learn how to shoot first since your new. Much more to it then just being a owner.
That said welcome to the world of firearms once you buy one...it won't be your last. Go shooting with someone and try out both guns if possible.

I certainly don't want to be confrontational, however, you don't need a bolt action rifle to learn to shoot any more than you need a single stage press versus a progressive press to learn to load. Why not buy a rifle that is not only fun and easy to shoot, the 15-22, but also may show the new In laws you are willing to be one of the boys? And will keep you happy for many years without having to trade up. Bolt action or semi auto, shooting is about hitting the target. Align the sights, put the red dot or crosshairs on the target, it doesn't matter, the aiming device has no idea what type of gun it is mounted on. While you can purchase a 10-22 for a couple hundred less, you can't have more fun than you will with a tactical .22 like the S&W. If you read enough here you will discover that, especially with the adjustable stock and available accessories, the gun can be made comfortable and efficient for all shooters. Whatever you decide, keep hanging around this forum and you will be able to pick up a lot of knowledge and maybe even have a laugh or two. Good luck on your decision.
RichH

 

[MarkDozier]

I think you should get a bolt action 22 to learn the rifle basics on because you put your thought and effort into shooting correctly. A 22 pistol, auto or revolver, will do fine for learning pistol basics with.
Don't let auqablancos incorrect assumptions lead you wrong. Shooting is a lot more then hitting the paper. Shooting properly gives you benefits like:
Patience
Mental acuity
Breathing control
among others

Both 22 auto and bolt guns are fun.
Make your decision based on what you like. But more important is how the gun fits you. If it fits get it.

BTW - learning reloading on a single stage press is the best way.

 

[Tommy kaira]

I'm a novice myself so this is just based on what I've found.
If you are going to be going hunting for small game I'd go for a bolt action like a CZ (that's what I did). My g/f actually prefers that. She likes to take her time with something that can hit the mark time after time. I use it for small game but at the range I've found the 10-22/15-22 semi autos to be more fun. If possible see if you can have a go with a couple of rifles at the range and see which you like.
You mention the family hunt. What do they use?
.22lr is a good choice in my opinion as the cost of shooting it wont stop you from really getting some practice in which is probably the most important thing to start with.

 

[Razer1]

Welcome to the forums Durango. Either rifle will do you well. I am relatively new to the world of rifles too, and I love my 15-22!

 

[aguablanco]

Learning to Shoot

I think you should get a bolt action 22 to learn the rifle basics on because you put your thought and effort into shooting correctly. A 22 pistol, auto or revolver, will do fine for learning pistol basics with.
Don't let auqablancos incorrect assumptions lead you wrong. Shooting is a lot more then hitting the paper. Shooting properly gives you benefits like:
Patience
Mental acuity
Breathing control
among others

Both 22 auto and bolt guns are fun.
Make your decision based on what you like. But more important is how the gun fits you. If it fits get it.

BTW - learning reloading on a single stage press is the best way.

Since semi-autos fire one shot at a time, with as much time between shots as one would desire, how is that any different than a bolt action? I never implied that the OP should go out blasting and hope the bullet hits the target. One can concentrate with any rifle. It seems, in your opinion, that the military has been teaching rifle shooting the wrong way for a few decades.

I've been reloading pistol cartridges since the early 80's and I have never owned a single stage press. I learned on a Lee 1000 and currently own a Hornady AP. Yes, it took me a little longer to set up the press in the beginning and, for some time, I ran it slower than it was capable of running. However, I didn't have to spend money on something equating training wheels, and after the initial knowledge phase, I had exactly the press I needed and wanted, without having to buy two of them. It is the same with firearms.
RichH

 

[Desert Five-0]

We all love our 15-22s. I think it really depends on what you want from the rifle. Both the 15-22 and the 10-22 are great guns. The 10-22 is about half the price so if money is tight you cant go wrong there. Either way you will spend more money on optics, magazines, and ammo. If you really want the 15-22 and can afford it go for it. The adjustable stock is nice for shooters of different sizes.

 

[durango]

Thanks, everyone, for your help and advice. I feel a lot better about the 15-22 now. It sounds like I'm at least thinking in the right direction. I was under the impression that bolt actions tended to be better in higher calibers, so thanks for clarifying that as well. I will see if my local gun range possibly has a 15-22 to try out along with a bolt action and a 10/22 and I'll take my fiance along.

My bro-in-law's family hunts deer in the Carolinas, but I'm in Kansas presently, so I'm not sure what they use. His brother is a gun enthusiast so I'd expect it's a larger caliber like 30.06. He makes incredible jerky, btw.

I'm not sure what a "single stage press" is. Does that mean that you press the trigger once as opposed to cocking the gun and then squeezing the trigger, i.e. single vs. double action?

Do you have any recommendations for either a .22 pistol or a 9mm that won't break the bank?

Am I better off purchasing a gun at a gun store or at Cabelas/Walmart/D-cks/Bass Pro? Is buying it over the Internet better?

Thanks again, everyone.

 

[Joewisc]

Personally, I'd start out on a handgun rather than a long gun. The S&W 617 which I own shoots like a rifle and is a good way to practice and hone target skills. Good luck in whatever you choose and welcome to the best gun forum anywhere!

 

[rraisley]

Thanks, everyone, for your help and advice. I feel a lot better about the 15-22 now. It sounds like I'm at least thinking in the right direction. I was under the impression that bolt actions tended to be better in higher calibers, so thanks for clarifying that as well. I will see if my local gun range possibly has a 15-22 to try out along with a bolt action and a 10/22 and I'll take my fiance along.

Good idea. A lot of indoor ranges have several weapons to try out. While most hunting rifles are bolt actions, bolt actions are not limited to higher power/caliber. And a semi-auto like the M&P 15 (not 15-22) can easily be used in hunting as well; in fact, a semi-auto kicks less than a bolt action, as the semi-auto action absorbs some of the kick.

My bro-in-law's family hunts deer in the Carolinas, but I'm in Kansas presently, so I'm not sure what they use. His brother is a gun enthusiast so I'd expect it's a larger caliber like 30.06. He makes incredible jerky, btw.

You need to ask what guns they own and shoot, and what type of shooting they do. No good showing up with a 15-22 to shoot skeet, or a Buck Mark to go deer hunting. See below for more about that.

I'm not sure what a "single stage press" is. Does that mean that you press the trigger once as opposed to cocking the gun and then squeezing the trigger, i.e. single vs. double action?

The single and double stage press refers to equipment to reload cartridges. It was off-topic, but trying to say you don't need to start with the most basic equipment to learn, nor use the most advanced equipment to do well.

Do you have any recommendations for either a .22 pistol or a 9mm that won't break the bank?

I prefer a Browning Buck Mark for a modern .22, although they're not cheap ($400-$500). As for a 9 mm, I don't think you can beat the S&W M&P 9. I have the 9c and love it, while the 9 is full size. Excellent, reliable gun.

Am I better off purchasing a gun at a gun store or at Cabelas/Walmart/D-cks/Bass Pro? Is buying it over the Internet better?

Not better, but sometimes cheaper, and usually with a better selection. Nevertheless, until you're very sure what you want, you'll want to hold the gun in your hand, so getting a good deal locally might be best. To start with, look for a local gun shop (LGS) that specializes in just guns and accessories. Chances are they may have a range to try guns out on as well.

One thing I think you have to watch for is "gun snobbery". You REALLY should talk to your inlaws to see what they shoot. If they shoot deer with a 30-06 and have .45 or 9 mm pistols, you aren't quite going to fit in by buying a 15-22 or Buck Mark. Sure, they're the best to learn on, but unless they have similar guns they shoot, you'll feel a bit out of place. Not to say you can't get .22 now, and something else later, when you're more comfortable and sure what you want. Just saying, you'll no doubt end up with more than just the .22. Still, any shooter should have a .22 rifle and pistol in his/her closet, to cheaply enjoy plinking at the range, as well as learn the basics.

With gun lovers in the family, you'll no doubt find this is not a cheap hobby.

 

[Hohopelli]

As a first time buyer, I would recommend buying at a reputable gun shop if you have a good one close by. Otherwise buy from one of the big box stores like Walmart. I think the M&P 15/22 would be a great starter as would a Ruger MKIII 22. Ron

 

[aguablanco]

First Gun

"I'm not sure what a "single stage press" is. Does that mean that you press the trigger once as opposed to cocking the gun and then squeezing the trigger, i.e. single vs. double action?"

Actually it has nothing to do with shooting, they are reloading presses and I was only using them as an example. Sorry to confuse you.
There are many great .22 pistols. My favorite is the Ruger Mark III 22/45. While you can buy a 9mm or larger, it may be best to start with the .22 to learn proper technique for you and your lovely bride. There will be no flinch, and virtually no recoil. And it will take the same ammo as your new rifle. Buying online is okay, but you have to factor in shipping and transfer fees, so it may not save you any money in the long run. Plus it is always nice to support local businesses whenever possible. While the big box stores may have a great selection, the prices are usually higher than you will find at mom & pop owned gun stores. And you will almost certainly get better advice at the mom & pops. You may also find something lightly used that will fit your needs.
Trying several guns at your local range is an absolutely great idea and will allow you to "test drive" several brands and models. It would be well worth the time to do that if you can.
RichH

 

[Majorlk]

I think you should get a bolt action 22 to learn the rifle basics on because you put your thought and effort into shooting correctly. A 22 pistol, auto or revolver, will do fine for learning pistol basics with.
Don't let auqablancos incorrect assumptions lead you wrong. Shooting is a lot more then hitting the paper. Shooting properly gives you benefits like:
Patience
Mental acuity
Breathing control
among others

Both 22 auto and bolt guns are fun.
Make your decision based on what you like. But more important is how the gun fits you. If it fits get it.

BTW - learning reloading on a single stage press is the best way.

There is no factual basis to back up your assertion about starting with a bolt action. It's NOT the action that teaches the things you mentioned, it's the INSTRUCTOR. Same thing with single-stage v progressive. It's ALL in the instruction!

BTW, has the military started teaching basics on '03 Springfields again? "D