Luger Pictures

[BC38]

I think that's true for several classes of collectible firearms right now. Winchester lever guns are in decline largely due to collectors dying off resulting in collections coming on the market but with far fewer new collectors coming up to buy them.

A lot of younger shooters right now are more interested in spending large amounts of money on high dollar precision rifles with high dollar optics and suppressors.

Lugers fall in the same category. WWII vets were in their 40s and 50s when I was young and were still just in their 60s when I started buying guns. WWI was 65 years in the past when I bought my first gun and WWI vets were in their 80s, but still around.

Now, the WWII is 75 years in the past, and WWI just over 100. Shooters' connections to those wars is much more remote and much more indirect. Lugers are not nearly as prevalent in popular culture and while still iconic, don't have as broad an appeal.

That makes it a buyers market.

----

Shooting a Luger is a great experience. It's a dated design with a single stack magazine that won't drop free from the mag well on it's own and the location of the safety isn't ideal, so it's tactically irrelevant.

However, they point exceptionally well and when properly sprung they run a smooth as a sewing machine and are extremely nice to shoot.

Everyone should shoot a nice Luger at least once.

Very eloquent explanation of the fading interest in the Luger. Basically it all boils down to "its an old-guy's gun" and there aren't as many of us "old guys" left to appreciate or compete for them.

Your description of shooting one is spot on too. I've never heard of the action being compared to a sewing machine, but I love the analogy. Like a sewing machine the toggle has an up and down motion, and the whole thing has a feeling of coordinated complex small machinery.

Operating that toggle also dampens a lot of the recoil energy, and helps make them soft shooting for such a relatively light gun. And they definitely balance and point like nothing else. Overall, rather an elegant weapon IMO.

 

[Absalom]

Your description of shooting one is spot on too. I've never heard of the action being compared to a sewing machine, but I love the analogy. Like a sewing machine the toggle has an up and down motion, and the whole thing has a feeling of coordinated complex small machinery.
...

While they are indeed quite complex, the Lugers are also unique in terms of general handgun history:

With the absence of a conventional slide/barrel assembly, and the toggle just moving the breechblock back and forth within the barrel/top frame, the Luger design was the only major alternative design to the Browning-style slide which survived in production into WW II and in service until the dissolution of East Germany, so through most of the 20th century.

All the other quirky ideas of the pre-WW I era, when Georg Luger designed his gun, disappeared rather quickly without achieving much success, including such oddballs as the Schwarzlose 1908 blow-forward action and our beloved S&W's own dud, the Clement-design Model 1913.

 

[CptCurl]

I have several Lugers, some of which I have featured here on the S&W Forums in years gone by.

Here's my DWM 1900 American Eagle:

Here's a link to my post, with lots of pictures: Luger for Variety - DWM 1900 American Eagle 7.65mm



In another thread I displayed my DWM 1906 commercial 9mm:

Here's a link to my post, with lots of pictures: Luger - DWM 1906 Commercial - 9mm



I've also displayed my 1941 Mauser Banner Police Luger:

Here's the link to that one: http://smith-wessonforum.com/firearms-knives-other-brands/457859-luger-1941-mauser-banner-police-eagle-l-9mm.html#post138873225



And then there's my DWM 1902 Carbine:

It is the very last serial numbered Old Model (1902) carbine. Here's the link: DWM 1902 Carbine - 7.65mm ~ S/N 50100




Here's my latest acquisition I just posted here. A post-WWI DWM Commercial 1906 pattern 7.65mm made for the Swiss market:

See it here: http://smith-wessonforum.com/firearms-knives-other-brands/596165-luger-new-model-swiss-c-n-proofed-swiss-alphabet-no-2652i.html#post140493042



There are several I have not photographed or posted. Lugers? Yeah, I like them!

Curl

 

[CptCurl]

. . .

All the other quirky ideas of the pre-WW I era, when Georg Luger designed his gun, disappeared rather quickly without achieving much success, including such oddballs as the Schwarzlose 1908 blow-forward action and our beloved S&W's own dud, the Clement-design Model 1913.

That's true to a certain degree, but the Mauser C96 "Broomhandle" is an exception. It was successful into the period between the wars and saw significant action in both wars.

Curl

 

[Art Doc]

As a teenager I wanted a Luger. My mom bought a 1918 DWM from Ralph Shattuck and gave it to me on my 21st birthday in 1976. In 1985 it was stolen. I bought another one just like it from Mr. Shattuck except this one is stamped Wulfsberg PD.

My first pistol was a Stoeger 22 Luger. Traded away long ago a few years back I saw another at a local show. It works fine.

 

[Andyd]

..., or advice on what type to buy for a good under $1,500 shooter, I thank you. Rick

I have owned a few Lugers and found differences in the performance, accuracy and reliability. I got the great book from Hallock and van de Kant before its price exploded and the book became as expensive as a mismatched P08 shooter. The book makes an important reference to a remark of the main armourer, Mr. Weiss, that the metallurgy of the pistols made at the Mauser Werke after 1934 or 35 with Mauser parts is greatly improved. This is an important fact for anyone who wants to shoot his Pistole Null Acht.
I have sold most of my Lugers and only kept a 1942 VOPO P.08 that got a new barrel and is one of my best centerfire shooters. The VOPO Lugers, were issued to the Volkspolizei and armed workers brigades and serviced by competent gun smiths, whenever the finish was worn the guns were dipped again and the VOPO magazines were made on the old Krieghoff machinery. The fit of the trigger bar is making a tremendous difference on the trigger characteristics. I have a complete small parts set for WWII Lugers and experimented with changing some parts around.

Besides the VOPO Lugers I would recommend some of the post war Mauser Lugers. Some were made on Swiss machinery or from parts in the 1970s in the Mauser factory.

 

[sheepdawg]

My dad came up with a matching 1916 DWM, a 1937 holster, two non matching w655 magazines and several boxes of ammo stamped 1944 around 1960. We shot it in our backyard quite often. When I inherited it I swore I shoot it next the day I retired. Well that day came in 2017 and I did, hadn't been shot since the 70s, hasn't been shot since. I break it down and clean it every so often cause it's going to be shot again sometime.

Nothing special about it other than it came from my dad. It did come with some black plastic grips that the guys over at the luger forum went nuts over. Within 30 minutes of posting I was offered $350 for them.

 

[2152hq]

The 'black plastic grips' are most likely the issue grips from the very late mfg Mauser Lugers of the early 40's,,the so called Black Widows. A phrase coined by Ralph Shattuck and one which has certainly stuck with collectors.

Those Luger guys must have spied them as originals and offered up some coin for them. Many of the late byf marked pistols that had them were stripped of those 'cheap looking plastic grips' early on and replaced with stuff like imitation pearl and stag.... or real wood like a gun 'otta have.

 

[sheepdawg]

The 'black plastic grips' are most likely the issue grips from the very late mfg Mauser Lugers of the early 40's,,the so called Black Widows. A phrase coined by Ralph Shattuck and one which has certainly stuck with collectors.

Those Luger guys must have spied them as originals and offered up some coin for them. Many of the late byf marked pistols that had them were stripped of those 'cheap looking plastic grips' early on and replaced with stuff like imitation pearl and stag.... or real wood like a gun 'otta have.

I've wondered for years how those grips got on it knowing that. Maybe a depot replacement, in the field, on the boat coming back from Europe, at 50's Bubba's house, it's a fact lost in time.

Came with a nice Quist m40 helmet too.

 

[Texas Star]

I've wondered for years how those grips got on it knowing that. Maybe a depot replacement, in the field, on the boat coming back from Europe, at 50's Bubba's house, it's a fact lost in time.

Came with a nice Quist m40 helmet too.

Please define "Quist" helmet. How's it different from similar German helmets?

 

[Tom K]

By the way, if you have $8K or so lying around you can have a brand new .45ACP Luger.
LugerMan | Firearm restoration, manufacturing, parts, sales

 

[sheepdawg]

Please define "Quist" helmet. How's it different from similar German helmets?

Quist was a manufacturer of German helmets. I think the second largest.

 

[KEN L]

Okay, I'll play. Nothing special. 1938 S/42 with the holster it came in. Interestingly, the toggle assembly is 10 digits higher than the rest of the gun, so it's a very nice "shooter". Anyway, traded into it about 10 years ago. Here she is......

 

[Kurusu]

Only got 4 of those.

A 1915 DWM, a 1938 Mauser a 1941 Mauser in 9mm and P.08 configuration and a 1909 .30 of the Portuguese Army contract

But I shoot them.

 

[Kurusu]

While they are indeed quite complex, the Lugers are also unique in terms of general handgun history:

With the absence of a conventional slide/barrel assembly, and the toggle just moving the breechblock back and forth within the barrel/top frame, the Luger design was the only major alternative design to the Browning-style slide which survived in production into WW II and in service until the dissolution of East Germany, so through most of the 20th century.

All the other quirky ideas of the pre-WW I era, when Georg Luger designed his gun, disappeared rather quickly without achieving much success, including such oddballs as the Schwarzlose 1908 blow-forward action and our beloved S&W's own dud, the Clement-design Model 1913.

Just a little note on this. The designer of the toggle system used in the "Luger" was not Geoge Luger but Hugo Borchardt. Ol' George just redesigned it into something much more ergonomic.

The old manuals say "Borchardt-Luger's system" on the cover.

 

[OLDSTER]

This is the most interesting thread; I own neither a Luger nor P-38, but have always been intrigued. My question for you "Luger guys" is ; About when did the Germans begin the transition from the Luger to the P-38. ??

 

[Kurusu]

This is the most interesting thread; I own neither a Luger nor P-38, but have always been intrigued. My question for you "Luger guys" is ; About when did the Germans begin the transition from the Luger to the P-38. ??

I think actual deliveries to the Army only started in mid 1940. And really picked up around 1943 after Mauser also started producing them. I have a 1941 AC Walther.

 

[BB57]

I think actual deliveries to the Army only started in mid 1940. And really picked up around 1943 after Mauser also started producing them. I have a 1941 AC Walther.

Walther production numbers:

1500 P-38s were made by Walther between June and December 1939 in the 1rst and 2nd "zero" series.

39,500 were made in 1940 in the 3rd zero series (Jan-May), the 480 code series (June and July) and the "ac" series (August onward).

Walther finally reached its production goal of 10,000 per month in April 1941 and 110,000 were made in 1941. Walther maintained that rate through 1942 with 120,000 made and increased to 150,000 in 1943 before tapering off to 130,000 in 1944 and only 32,000 in 1945.

Mauser Production numbers:

Mauser (coded byf) made only 700 pistols in December 1942. They made 144,300 in 1943, 145,000 in 1944, and 33,000 in 1945.

Spreewerk production numbers:

Spreewerk (code cyq) made 7050 pistols from June to December 1942, 107,850 in 1943, 126,980 in 1944, and 41,200 in 1945.

The Mauser made P-08s phased out in 1943, with the last deliveries of Mauser made P-08 Lugers to the German army occuring in November 1943, with a few thousand more assembled in December for Portugal.

Krieghoff acquired tooling from Simson in 1935, (and Simson had acquired it from Erfurt in 1920), and used it as a guide for their own tooling for Luftwaffe contract pistols. The last of these were delivered in 1944.

 

[Absalom]

Just a little note on this. The designer of the toggle system used in the "Luger" was not Geoge Luger but Hugo Borchardt. Ol' George just redesigned it into something much more ergonomic.

The old manuals say "Borchardt-Luger's system" on the cover.
...

And as the old manual already shows, not just Borchardt, but Luger was not getting prime billing in how the gun was going to become famous.

In Europe, from early on, it was the Parabellum or in German parlance simply the "Null-acht" (zero-eight) after its P-08 military designation, even for civilian sales. See attached Stukenbrok catalog from 1911.

I never heard or saw it called a Luger until I started reading gun literature in English. Interestingly, in the US the Luger name was used from early on. The second snip is from a 1910 A&F catalog.

 

[Kurusu]

Walther production numbers:

1500 P-38s were made by Walther between June and December 1939 in the 1rst and 2nd "zero" series.

39,500 were made in 1940 in the 3rd zero series (Jan-May), the 480 code series (June and July) and the "ac" series (August onward).

Walther finally reached its production goal of 10,000 per month in April 1941 and 110,000 were made in 1941. Walther maintained that rate through 1942 with 120,000 made and increased to 150,000 in 1943 before tapering off to 130,000 in 1944 and only 32,000 in 1945.

Mauser Production numbers:

Mauser (coded byf) made only 700 pistols in December 1942. They made 144,300 in 1943, 145,000 in 1944, and 33,000 in 1945.

Spreewerk production numbers:

Spreewerk (code cyq) made 7050 pistols from June to December 1942, 107,850 in 1943, 126,980 in 1944, and 41,200 in 1945.

The Mauser made P-08s phased out in 1943, with the last deliveries of Mauser made P-08 Lugers to the German army occuring in November 1943, with a few thousand more assembled in December for Portugal.

Krieghoff acquired tooling from Simson in 1935, (and Simson had acquired it from Erfurt in 1920), and used it as a guide for their own tooling for Luftwaffe contract pistols. The last of these were delivered in 1944.

About 5000 that fall in the "m" block letter, and go up to serial #5300 (give or take a few). There was also a Bulgarian contract that falls in the "m" and "n" block letters

Also, Mauser had it's code changed to svw in 1945.

Edit. Absalom is correct. Around here, while it was on service and beyond, it was always called the Parabellum. Only more recently, and maybe because of internet, there are more and more people calling them Luger.