Lyman's new Pistol & Revolver Manual

[336A]

Yesterday I bought the new Lyman Pistol & Revolver Manual. I guess I should have saved my money as the Cast bullet third Edition Manual is much better. The newer manual is full of dumbed down data. For Example the new manual shows +P Data for the Lyman #358429 bullet with universal powder. The new manual don't show +P data for Unique with this bullet, but they did dumb down the Max charge weight that has been around for years from 5.0gr to a new Max of 4.2gr

 

[336A]

Yesterday I bought the new Lyman Pistol & Revolver Manual. I guess I should have saved my money as the Cast bullet third Edition Manual is much better. The newer manual is full of dumbed down data. For Example the new manual shows +P Data for the Lyman #358429 bullet with universal powder. The new manual don't show +P data for Unique with this bullet, but they did dumb down the Max charge weight that has been around for years from 5.0gr to a new Max of 4.2gr

 

[model10]

Lyman company lawyers wrote it !!.Called cover your &$$

 

[Erich]

Sad to hear, but thanks for the heads-up.

 

[Paul5388]

That's the same data they have in the new 49th Edition. The 45th Edition has 5.0 gr as the max load with the 358429.

 

[336A]

Paul that is whats in the Cast bullet manual third edition, Unique 5.0gr for IIRC 16,500 CUP. Yet for some strange reason they deemed it necesarry to decrease the charge to 4.2gr in the new manual. It is even more strange that Lyman would provide +P data for Hodgdon Universal, which right next to Unique on the Burn Rate Chart but no +P data for Unique.

 

[Paul5388]

I just looked at the 48th Edition and found the same 4.2 gr load.

In Speer #10 they were using 4.7 gr with a swaged 158 gr bullet, so the previous "lawyer" comment is probably the cause.

If this Speer #5 load didn't damage guns, which it didn't, I don't think I'm going to be worried about the "new" loads.

 

[David LaPell]

About two years ago I picked up a stack of old reloading manuals at a garage sale, going back as far as Lyman 40, 41, 42, and 43. In Lyman 42, printed in 1960, a load of 14.0 grains 2400 is listed as the max with Keiths # 358429.
With the same manual .44 Special, the 255 grain # 429421 is listed as having a max grain charge of 8.5 grains Unique.
In Lymans cast bullet handbook 3rd edition that same .357 bullet #358429 is listed with a max charge of 2400 13.5 grains, and the .44 Special bullet # 429421 hs a max charge of 6.9 grains of Unique. So are they dumbing down the loads, absolutely. Aren't legalities a lovely thing?

 

[gboling]

I recently read,unfortunately I do not remember where, that the newer data is a result of changes in powder caused by slight changes in the products used to make the powder that cause differences in powder performance. Compare the chamber pressure and bullet velocity between the old and new data.

 

[al27023]

Agree with gboling - Have a Bullseye 45 that was originally set up for 3.5 grs Bullseye in mid 60's to get good velocity accuracy and operation. To get same velocity today with BE requires 3.9 to 4.0 grs. Lyman manuals from 67 to the latest show this in velocity and pressure results.
Also some older lots of powder do not weigh the same out of an RCBS little dandy measure - same rotor - as newer lots. I have noticed this from Hercules and Alliant cans.
Al

 

[LAH]

Things do change, do they not..........Creeker

 

[Steve C]

Years ago I had a short discussion at the NRA convention with a couple reps from Hercules. I asked them why some of the data was showing lighter loads with the same velocity. They said that while the powder burn rates have stayed the same since inception, other components have changed, esp. primers being hotter, and they're produce higher pressures than those used with earlier data.

I had loaded 5.5grs of Unique behind Speers 158gr LSWC in the .38 spl for many years. When chronographs become affordable (around $100) I ran some of these loads across mine. Well, unlike the 939 fps the Speer #5 shows from a 6" K-38 revolver, 5.5grs of Unique sent that 158gr bullet out of my 4" S&W 67 at 1,084 fps and 878 fps from my 2" Colt DS. So I backed it down to 5.0grs and brought the velocities down to a +P level at 901 fps from the S&W 67 and 782 fps from the Colt or right at factory +P.