M-1 Ammo: A Question?

[Redcoat3340]

My daughter's boyfriend has an M1 Garand. He was asking about getting ammo for it and said "modern" .30-06 wasn't good as it is loaded too hot for the rifle.

I've got a bunch of milsups (Swede, Swiss, Finn, Enfields, Russian, Mausers, Commission rifle, and even a Krag) but no M1, so I know zip about them, besides how to carry one in a parade as I had to do when I attended the USMMA.

So two questions:

1. Is he right. Must period "surplus" 30-06 fodder be used in these "old" guns?

2. If so, who sells it. (Or what should I be looking for if I want to buy some for us to shoot?)

I always thought the Garand was built like a tank and had never heard modern rounds shouldn't be shot in them. But as I said, never having owned one, I'm pretty much in the dark about them. We're not going to be shooting competition, just some steel at 100 or 200 yards. And we won't be hunting with it either, so don't necessarily need bullets for game.

Thanks.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Maybe he's just using that excuse for avoiding coughing up the inflated prices.


Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

 

[kbm6893]

My daughter's boyfriend has an M1 Garand. He was asking about getting ammo for it and said "modern" .30-06 wasn't good as it is loaded too hot for the rifle.

I've got a bunch of milsups (Swede, Swiss, Finn, Enfields, Russian, Mausers, Commission rifle, and even a Krag) but no M1, so I know zip about them, besides how to carry one in a parade as I had to do when I attended the USMMA.

So two questions:

1. Is he right. Must period "surplus" 30-06 fodder be used in these "old" guns?

2. If so, who sells it. (Or what should I be looking for if I want to buy some for us to shoot?)

I always thought the Garand was built like a tank and had never heard modern rounds shouldn't be shot in them. But as I said, never having owned one, I'm pretty much in the dark about them. We're not going to be shooting competition, just some steel at 100 or 200 yards. And we won't be hunting with it either, so don't necessarily need bullets for game.

Thanks.

Yes. Modern ammo is to hot for the M1. The burn rate of powders when this rifle was in service is different. I’d have to look it up, but I believe the bullet weight should be 150 grains and only certain powders should be used. Many reloading manuals have sections just for the M1. I have 2 M1’s and I do reload, but not for them. I bought a bunch of Greek surplus ammo when it was cheap and available and I only shoot my rifles 100 rounds a year or so. Shooting modern ammo has been known to bend the operating rod.

There is a solution to allow you to shoot modern ammo. An aftermarket gas plug exists that replaces the one on the rifle and bleeds off the extra gas to prevent damage to the op rod. Some of the plugs can be manually adjusted to your liking, while others just have one setting. Go to YouTube and type in M1 Adjustable Gas Plug or something. You’ll see how they work. They’re not a lot of money.

M1 Garand Shooting Commercial Ammo-Safely! - YouTube

There is a company that sells 30-06 made for Garand rifles. I think Federal. It’s a red box with Garand right on the box.

 

[DWalt]

As above, military ammo is best in a stock M1, or else, reloads approximating it. The issue is that the slower powders extend the pressure curve and in some cases can bend the op rod, and that is something you do not want to happen. There are reloading recipes specifically suited for use in the M1. Powders used should be in the same general burning rate range as IMR 4895. 150 to 180 grain bullets are suitable.

The problem with using commercial .30-'06 hunting loads is that you have no idea if the propellant used by the factory has a suitable burning rate.

 

[pasote]

M1 garand loads

My daughter's boyfriend has an M1 Garand. He was asking about getting ammo for it and said "modern" .30-06 wasn't good as it is loaded too hot for the rifle.

I've got a bunch of milsups (Swede, Swiss, Finn, Enfields, Russian, Mausers, Commission rifle, and even a Krag) but no M1, so I know zip about them, besides how to carry one in a parade as I had to do when I attended the USMMA.

So two questions:

1. Is he right. Must period "surplus" 30-06 fodder be used in these "old" guns?

2. If so, who sells it. (Or what should I be looking for if I want to buy some for us to shoot?)

I always thought the Garand was built like a tank and had never heard modern rounds shouldn't be shot in them. But as I said, never having owned one, I'm pretty much in the dark about them. We're not going to be shooting competition, just some steel at 100 or 200 yards. And we won't be hunting with it either, so don't necessarily need bullets for game.

Thanks.

Yes, He is right. Modern 30-06 ammo is loaded too hot for the M1 Garand and may bend the op-rod. The ball ammo for the M1 Garand was 150 gr at around 2700 fps. A few years ago, Winchester made a batch of commemorative ammo loaded for the M1 Garand and you may be able to still find some, although at an inflated price. If you are a reloader, You can find some handloading data that is specifically for the M1 garand in the service Rifle section in the Hornady manual as well as other manuals. I competed for a couple of years with a Garand as an NRA high power service rifle shooter and I used the data in the hornady and Sierra manuals with great success. IMR 4895 was specifically designed for the M1 Garand and 4064 is also a good powder. Good Luck in your search for ammo for the M1 Garand!

 

[LVSteve]

Most ammo for bolt action hunting rifles uses powders way too slow for most milsurp semi-auto rifles, even ones with an adjustable gas system like the FAL. Fitting a Garand with an adjustable gas plug is good insurance.

 

[murphydog]

A quick Internet search turns up several makers with in-stock M1 Garand specific .30-'06 ammo at about 50 cents/round.

 

[Grayfox]

Hornady, Federal, Sellier & Bellot and I believe one or two more ammo makers sell .30-06 ammo loaded specifically for the M1 Garand. But you'll probably have to order it off the internet as few stores carry it.
If you search around a bit, you can probably still find some Mil-surp M2 Ball. The Greek HXP is considered to be best. Be aware that some of the Korean stuff has corrosive primers.

 

[Hair Trigger]

I don't have a Garand, or a 30-06, but I do own a M1A (M14), and the same things applies to it as it does the M1 Garand. In both military rifles, the cartridge is loaded to lower pressures than their civilian counterparts. If military cases are used, lower powder loads are required, as the internal volume of a military 7.62x63 case is less than the civilian 30-06. Same goes for the 7.62x51 vs the .308.

Slightly faster powders are used in the military rifles, due to the actions used by both rifles. The gas pressure is required to rise relatively fast and then roll off, rather than rising and staying high; The sudden rise and drop-off of pressure gives the oprod a sudden "kick" after which inertia finishes the cycle. If pressure does not quickly drop, it continues to force the oprod rearward and forces the bolt to the limits of its travel and beyond. This at the very least can bend the oprod, at worst can blow the bolt out of its track to the rear (and we all know what is behind the bolt).

Bullet weights in both rifles can be as light as 147 grains for the 7.62x51 and as heavy as 178 grains for both calibers. Ideal for the 7.62x63 (Garand) is 150 grains, and for the 7.62x51 is 147 grains, but better long range performance is gained with the heavier (and higher BC) 168 or 178 grain.

Best bet is find commercial/military ammunition intended for the Garand if you don't reload, or stay within the recommended powder types and loading guidelines for military ammunition in reloading manuals.

 

[lrrifleman]

I have reloaded M2 Ball and M72 Match equivalent ammo for my M1s. The young man is correct. I believe that the target velocity with bullets ranging from 147gr Ball to 173gr BT Match Ball was 2760 fps using powder with burn rates comparable to IMR4895 and IMR4064. The M1's Achilles' heel is the op rod. The last thing you want is to have it bend due to excessive port pressure!

 

[Puller]

So . . . I don’t completely agree with some of the statements above about shooting modern commercial ammo in a M1 rifle. I own and shoot and hunt with three M1 rifles, mostly with commercial ammo. There are some stipulations though; keep bullet weight in the 150 to 160 grain range. Much heavier and you’ll have the op rod slapping around too hard.

Also, I do recommend the Garand Gear gas plug. It is a fixed capacity plug that helps bleed off any potential excess pressure, it also works fine with standard M2 ball spec ammo. The Garand Gear is plug and play and makes the adjustable gas plug obsolete unless you just enjoy dinking around with the adjustable plug every time you change ammo.

I hunted with Remington 150 grain Core Lokt for years with the standard gas plug shooting a couple hundred rounds without any issues. Even so, I installed the Garand Gear plugs on mine as insurance.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Most ammo for bolt action hunting rifles uses powders way too slow for most milsurp semi-auto rifles, even ones with an adjustable gas system like the FAL. Fitting a Garand with an adjustable gas plug is good insurance.

What we found using the adjustable Shulster gas plug is that it GREATLY effects the accuracy of the M1. So back to the original plug and Garand safe ammo. I shoot GC'd cast lead bullets in mine with IMR 4895. Smokes like a locomotive but shoots them well.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

One seller on the Texas Gun Trader in San Antonio TX has 240 rd sealed spam cans of 30-06 M2 Ball @ $335

Another seller in Houston has 1942 Lake City,a clip and 8 rds @ $15 ea.

Another in Houston has 218 rds of bank ammo in clips for $75.00

Each trip to the CMP in Anniston Alabama I'd buy 3-4 cans of Greek HXP Ball ammo. I'm well set and reload too. Even them I think it was 42 cents a round.

 

[Baxter6551]

The Garand Gear plug is the way to go in my opinion. Their website has excellent research information about this very topic.

The M1 Garand and Commercial Ammunition - GarandGear

As noted by others you risk bending your Op Rod or worse with commercial / hunting ammo. I attended the CMP advanced maintenance class in Anniston and they have examples of damaged rifles on display including ones damaged by commercial ammo or over pressure reloads. The Federal American Eagle Garand load is good and there are others as mentioned above. If you do decide to shoot commercial ammo not specifically recommended/ marketed for M1 Garand then I would suggest to get the gas plug. Side note Federal in their American Eagle line also makes an M14/M1A specific load.
There is another plug made by Schuster which is user adjustable for match tuning but I prefer the simpler Garand Gear one as my goal was just to protect from possible damage.

 

[bmcgilvray]

I've shot an M1 for decades. Have shot one in high power for decades, putting lots of rounds through it. Shot it for a few matches so far this year. No adjustable gas plug and no special Garand ammunition has ever been used and I'm not going to start now.

Any 125 grain to 180 grain bullet over any medium burning powder loaded to something less than nuclear powered will suffice. All this "special ammunition" and/or adjustable gas plugs is unnecessary and only arose after the advent of the internet firearms forums and a bunch of posts parroting and promoting dithering.

Just stay away from copious amounts of slow burning powders or 200-220 grain bullets and you'll be fine. Factory .30-06 ammunition is not too hot. Hornady has made some sort of "light magnum" .30-06 loading. Don't know how that ammunition would treat the M1, but it's not necessary for the .30-06 is complete goodness without it.

The M1 won the big War and it didn't do so by being a weak rifle.

 

[STCM(SW)]

I have about 1K of the WW ammo from Greek in the clips.
Only thing I will shoot in my M1 Garand.....

 

[LVSteve]

I've shot an M1 for decades. Have shot one in high power for decades, putting lots of rounds through it. Shot it for a few matches so far this year. No adjustable gas plug and no special Garand ammunition has ever been used and I'm not going to start now.

Any 125 grain to 180 grain bullet over any medium burning powder loaded to something less than nuclear powered will suffice. All this "special ammunition" and/or adjustable gas plugs is unnecessary and only arose after the advent of the internet firearms forums and a bunch of posts parroting and promoting dithering.

Just stay away from copious amounts of slow burning powders or 200-220 grain bullets and you'll be fine. Factory .30-06 ammunition is not too hot. Hornady has made some sort of "light magnum" .30-06 loading. Don't know how that ammunition would treat the M1, but it's not necessary for the .30-06 is complete goodness without it.

The M1 won the big War and it didn't do so by being a weak rifle.

You do realize that most of us don't load our own ammo, but if I ever do I know who to ask for a recipe. I say again, it's not that much of the common factory ammo is too hot, it's just got the wrong pressure curve for a gas gun.

As a general point for all, don't get fooled like I did by the recoil impulse of any ammo in a bolt gun when trying to find something that will work in a gas gun. The faster powder ammo suitable for semi autos generally has a sharper recoil impulse in a bolt gun compared to hunting ammo. I went down that rabbit hole with a FAL, FN-49 and a Hakim until others pointed out the error of my ways.

 

[bmcgilvray]

In reply LVSteve, it must be ask how we know that common factory ammo has the wrong pressure curve for the M1?

If the rifle is ejecting empties forward and too the right of point-of-aim, say 1:00, and capable of dumping the empties all in a coffee mug six feet from it (so to speak) port pressure is where it needs to be and observing the rifle as it fires is as boring as watching a cloths dryer.

If the rifle is ejecting them smartly at 3:00 or on around to the right and behind the shooter or flinging them randomly about then port pressure is probably excessive. If the rifle is putting on a show, forcefully propelling cases 30 yards down the firing line and sticking some of them in a awning support pole then port pressure is certainly excessive.

I once knew someone who insisted on loading his M1 with 220 grain round nose bullets and heavy charge weights of H4831, a slow burning powder in the .30-06. He had liked that load for his deer hunting in a bolt-action .30-06 Ejection was violent and cases became dangerous projectiles and one would wince at each shot just watching.

Yet, there's a lot of leeway in what the M1 will digest. Stay within the range of bullet weights generally recommended for use with the M1 and you will be kind to the rifle.

I don't know this for certain, but seems that the .30-06 hunting loads I've examined are loaded with a powder that is far from a case full such as 4350 or 4831 or other slow burning powders would provide. One doesn't hear anything when handloads using those slow powders are shaken. Factory 150 to 180 grain loads obviously have room to spare when shaken which would seem to indicate a faster burning powder. Stands to reason that for matters of economy the ammunition makers are going to chose a propellant that gives the most loads per pound that meet performance specifications. Faster powders will get them there.

All bets are off if one selects some sort of .30-06 ammunition that is marketed as "+P" or otherwise said to yield velocities higher than standard.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Well fellers we all can driver our "cars" fast or slow as we want. Me. I stick with Garand safe loads for my Garands(plural). These great rifles are 60 plus years old so why try to damage one just gain a paltry few more FPS?

 

[Tam 3]

General Hatcher wrote the M-1 was designed to use the M-1 cartridge. M-2 ball was adopted to deal with range safety, not to comply with the rifle's limitations.

Regards.

Tam 3