M&P 15-22 goes boom...not good

dannreed

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Hello All,
As I've only lurked here a couple times let me introduce myself and give you a little bit of my history before I go into the exploding rifle.
I joined a local police dept when I turned 21, and had already worked as an armed guard at a nuke power generation facility during one refueling shutdown. After that I got hired at Maine's only maximum security prison (at that time), and worked until I finished my 6 month probationary period and 6 more months to save up some cash. The pay there was exceptionally good. It was unionized and the state pay and benefits were great, and the double and a half overtime was always available (triple and a half OT on holiday weekends).
My problem was the only way to see my kids (125 miles away) was to have my bags packed and head out of town immediately so you weren't recalled to work overtime shifts. This was back before cell phones.
Anyway, I came home and was hired as a reserve officer part time for years, and was also a paramedic for 12 years and a volunteer hunter safety instructor for a couple years. Needless to say I had a pretty good idea of which end the bullet goes in.
I had just put on an EOTECH on my S&W M&P AR-15-22 on 18 Sept. and went out to sight it in. I was using Winchester Xpert HV ammo in it. On the 24th shot of a 25 round mag when I fired it felt like my hand around the magwell was blown off. Luckily I only had one small (1-2 mm) piece of brass shot into my thumb. My wife managed to get it out with surgical tweezers and forcepts.
Checking the chamber I find a case in the chamber with the head blown off but jammed solidly in place with the last round in the mag bent up and jammed into the magazine when it tried to chamber it. I had a hell of a time getting it out of the magazine. It felt to me like the bad round had a double powder charge, It was much louder than the other rounds. I'm glad it was only a 22, otherwise I might have lost a thumb.
I contacted S&W and Winchester/Olin the following Monday, and they both sent call tags for the ammo and weapon. The people at S&W seemed truly sorry and were going to find out the cause and let me know ASAP. The woman I dealt with at
Winchester/Olin was a real pain in the *ss, being really pissy, because the chances of a double powder charge was miniscule according to her (even though I find out later in the day that they have a recall (for possibly double charged rounds) going on, on the exact ammo, just different lot numbers.
Yesterday the big brown truck comes by with a package for me. It's the same exact box I sent it out in, with the same plastic grocerie bags I used for padding. If the boxes I sent out hadn't come back upside down in the box I'd have sworn they were never opened. The letter I sent to them and the index card with the little piece of brass I had to have removed from my thumb were still in there. There was absolutely no letter or anything to show they tested the ammo or anything. I mean ***? Did they even test the ammo? Did the just weigh them all and remove the double charged rounds? Is it even the same ammo I sent in? The lack of any reply makes me suspicious at the least. Oh, and I've checked my mail, and they haven't sent a reply thru the mail either. I'm going to call Winchester/Olin if I don't receive some kind of communication from them by Monday morning.
Dan
 
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First and foremost I'm glad you're OK and you only took a small amount of the case. Always wear eye protection!

Sounds like it was more likely an out of battery accident. The exploded round had a missing piece blown out the side toward the rear? Hard to tell from your description.

From the design of the 15-22 a double charge wouldn't likely cause an explosion of the rifle, given the size of the chamber walls in relation to the size of a .22. I'd think the bolt would recoil hard and the case may deform or crack - did the shot of the accident have any recoil, or did it seem like everything shot out of the ejection port? The louder sound could be from a slightly open bolt.

Your rifle is still at S&W? I'd like to hear if there's ejector damage from an OOB. It's been an issue with the 15-22 guns, and the design of the AR15 trigger that allows the hammer to drop before the bolt is fully in battery. Do you know the first 3 letters of your serial number? DU**** are the newest, and earlier models will have a second letter further back in the alphabet.
 
It seemed to me most of the blast came down through the
magazine well. My thumb, besides taking a small piece of brass, was scorched. I'd washed my thumb off and put ice on it before I took pictures. I'll try to post some pictures with this reply. I suspect they might give more insight.
The rifle is still at S&W, if it's even there yet. It ended up being a bizarre time trying to get them (Fedex) to pick the damn rifle up. It was almost I week before I received the call tag from Smith, I had to make a second call before the tag arrived in my mail. I called Fedex for a pickup the next day.
The next day the Fedex driver called me from Ohio asking for street directions, funny almost since I'm in Maine. They wanted to reschedule pickup, but couldn't arrange it for several more days as they insisted I'd have to stay home the whole day until the driver showed up. Hopefully it's there now. If I remember correctly the serial # starts with DTU, and the ejector looked fine to me. I'm gonna try and attach a couple pictures now.
Dan
 

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The third picture looks like a perfect shear at the breach face, which would likely be an indication of an out of battery detonation.

The round was likely hung up either coming out of the magazine or into the chamber and the spring didn't have enough power to force the bolt fully shut.

If it was a double charge in a round fully seated the round was partially extracted before blowing out, which doesn't make sense to me.
 
Looks like an OOB to me. See below pic from an OOB with my 15-22.

How were you holding the rifle in order to get such a mark on your hand???
 

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Sounds exactly like what mine did back in August. Same ammo too, although my extractor reached escape velocity, never to be seen again. More likely than not, it was simply an OOB det, and not a double charge in the cartridge. It sounded a lot louder to you since half of the gas came out the ejection port, much closer to your ears than when most of it comes out that muzzle 20+ inches away from them.
 
Dang....glad you're ok. Curious, is you 15-22 an older model?
 
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Hey dan, (Edited phil) Glad you made it here and hope the guys here can help a little more. Saw your post over there and while I don't think it was the ammo, it's kinda weird that win wouldn't communicate more. Let me know when you get the rifle back. Interested to see what info, if any, they have and if they "update to latest specs". Take care.
 
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Hey guys,

No creative spelling and no posting of other Forums. Thanks phil
 
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Hi Dan and welcome to the forum from another Maniac. Sorry about your problem but if it's the rifle and not the ammo, SW will fix it and have it back to you quickly. I'd be a little concerned with Win's failure to communicate with you. You should give them a call and see what's up. Anyway, welcome again - you'll find many good, knowledgeable folks here. Have fun.
 
I appreciate everyones comments and good wishes. I will post follow ups on everything as soon as I get it. Soneone asked how Icouldhavegotten my thumb in that position to get burned and take a piece of brass. It's simple, I'm left handed and wrap my forward hand around the mag well. At least I used to, I'll be putting a forward vertical grip on there like I have on my 5.45X39 AR
 
Dan: You stated that you washed your hand before photos- is that a burn? Looks like the size of a 22lr case. Were you shooting left-handed since burn is on your right thumb? Was the mag blown out of gun?? I can not tell from the photo- is that the base of the 22 case still in the chamber? Win response seems very, very strange, they generally want to know everything. Glad you had no other injuries.
 
I recently bought a box of that ammo from Wally World. I fired appox half the box and had 8 FTF/FTE. I dont think I will be finishing them....

How are live rounds of possibly defective ammo properly disposed of?

Hey guys,

No creative spelling and no posting of other Forums. Thanks phil


Amen, brother. That is another reason why I like the forum. :cool:
 
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.22LR can be soaked in a tub of water (old coffee can). The water will kill the power and primer rendering them unusable and mostly inert.

You can also pull the bullets and burn the powder off in a controlled manner.
 
I just tried shooting left handed, without any ammo, with my hand on the magwell like you said you did. If your thumb creeped aver the ejection port, it could have prevented the bolt from fully closing. But it is far enough forward for the trigger to release the hammer. BOOM, you have an out of battery detonation. Just like Phils pic, then the next bullet crushed the rest of the cartridge into the breech face and got jammed. Just a theory. Hope your thumb is better. Powder burns are very painful.
 
If your thumb creeped aver the ejection port, it could have prevented the bolt from fully closing. But it is far enough forward for the trigger to release the hammer. BOOM, you have an out of battery detonation.

I can't believe after all these months, this is still possible on this rifle and hasn't been fixed. The OPs experience is yet another example of why the 15-22 should be recalled.
 
I can't believe after all these months, this is still possible on this rifle and hasn't been fixed. The OPs experience is yet another example of why the 15-22 should be recalled.

Along with how many others? It's a rimfire after all. OOB's can happen - even with the best ammo and cleaning, which is why lefty firing these things ain't exactly a good idea either. If it's any consolation to the OP, it could have been worse. No way I'll put my face on the same side as the port - rimfire or not.
 
I can't believe after all these months, this is still possible on this rifle and hasn't been fixed. The OPs experience is yet another example of why the 15-22 should be recalled.

If you notice, he said it was a DTU number, so it isn't a new rifle. It just sat on a shelf somewhere.
 
Along with how many others? It's a rimfire after all. OOB's can happen - even with the best ammo and cleaning, which is why lefty firing these things ain't exactly a good idea either. If it's any consolation to the OP, it could have been worse. No way I'll put my face on the same side as the port - rimfire or not.
All us left handed people are just asking for trouble then?

I guess I should adapt to your superior right handed technique that I've been shunning for decades :rolleyes:
 
If you notice, he said it was a DTU number, so it isn't a new rifle. It just sat on a shelf somewhere.
That's exactly what recalls are for, to notify consumers and fix ALL of them, including old stock.

The fact that it's a rimfire doesn't change anything. Any firearm which can fire OOB is unsafe. So it's ok for the OP's thumb to get scorched and cut? What's next? It's ok for a kid to lose an eye from one of these things just because they are a lefty or because it's just a rimfire?
 
All us left handed people are just asking for trouble then?

I guess I should adapt to your superior right handed technique that I've been shunning for decades :rolleyes:

Concerning left handed shooting. I'm left handed and have shot left handed all of my life. A couple of years ago I had an ICD implanted and the surgeon said no more left handed rifle shooting. (It's in my left upper chest. So, I figured that was that.) Then the 15-22 came out and I had to have one. I bought my 15-22 and learned to shoot it right handed. Seemed very awkward at first but soon became accustomed to it. I didn't really think .22lr recoil would be a problem but I'm inclined to listen to my cardiologist in matters of the heart :)
 
Lefty

I shoot left handed because I'm very left eye dominant, not because I'm left handed. I can't sight well shooting righty and it feels very awkward. I may be taking extra risk but I also think tacticool is right. And I don't hold my right hand anywhere near the port.

I just tried shooting left handed, without any ammo, with my hand on the magwell like you said you did. If your thumb creeped aver the ejection port, it could have prevented the bolt from fully closing. But it is far enough forward for the trigger to release the hammer. BOOM, you have an out of battery detonation. Just like Phils pic, then the next bullet crushed the rest of the cartridge into the breech face and got jammed. Just a theory. Hope your thumb is better. Powder burns are very painful.
 
Another 'lefty' here, just purchased my 15-22 and waiting for the 10 day period to end:(. Mine is a DUU serial number, which I believe is newer and should have the upgraded springs and components, correct? With the rifle broken down, I remember seeing blue springs around the hammer area. Thanks in advance for confirmation one way or the other.

John
 
yes that is correct, even some of the earlier serials had the same upgrades. DU*?
 
Good, at least I can fell better knowing that I didn't get an older 15-22 that hasn't been reworked. Maybe I'll still have to use a face shield when I take it out:rolleyes:
 
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