M&P 15-22 vs M&P 15 with conversion bolt?
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For me.....it's having a dedicated .22lr with controls that match my AR.
I can just grab my 15-22, a brick of .22s and the boys and head to the range.
I've got .22 conversion kits for both my Beretta 92 and Browning HP which don't get used nearly as much as my dedicated .22 15-22.
I can just grab my 15-22, a brick of .22s and the boys and head to the range.
I've got .22 conversion kits for both my Beretta 92 and Browning HP which don't get used nearly as much as my dedicated .22 15-22.
SouthernSlammed
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Dedicated platform is where it's at!
Wee Hooker
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Dedicated rifle vote here too.
I started with a BlackGog ( BCG type) conversion for my AR's. It functioned OK but accuracy was minute of beer can at best. Consider your shooting out of an inch of smooth bore chamber adapter that transitions to out to an overbored 1: 7or 8 twist AR barrel and it's not hard to understand why.
I also had a dedicated .22 upper for a while. It had the right chamber and a 1:16 twist barrel so shot tighter but deleted /diverted from many of the normal control functions on the AR. It also lacked the ability to add accessories/ customize. I wasn't a real fan and didn't see it's advantage over a basic 10/22. It stayed home in the safe allot.
I now run a S&W 15-22 (PC version with the newer M-LOK handguard)) and am very happy with it. The rifle feels and functions like an AR (although a bit lighter) and is pretty darn accurate out to 100 yds or so. It has also been VERY reliable if I feed it quality ammo. I run it with the flip up sights but also keep a dedicated red dot and scope (in a dedicated case with 4 mags) to adapt to the moment. It's an AWFUL lot of fun to shoot steel swingers, lollipops, crab apples...... True the dedicated gun costs a bit more than the other options but it's always ready to go and ammo savings (if there is such a thing) it pay for itself (someday
). Besides, I'm not in this sport to save money. This one gets used allot!
BTW, Tippmann Arms now makes a M4 -22 that uses an aluminum upper and lower. It is VERY realistic. It might be worth a look if your leaning towards a dedicated platform. I've handled one just last week and the quality seemed high.
http://tippmannarms.com/
I started with a BlackGog ( BCG type) conversion for my AR's. It functioned OK but accuracy was minute of beer can at best. Consider your shooting out of an inch of smooth bore chamber adapter that transitions to out to an overbored 1: 7or 8 twist AR barrel and it's not hard to understand why.
I also had a dedicated .22 upper for a while. It had the right chamber and a 1:16 twist barrel so shot tighter but deleted /diverted from many of the normal control functions on the AR. It also lacked the ability to add accessories/ customize. I wasn't a real fan and didn't see it's advantage over a basic 10/22. It stayed home in the safe allot.
I now run a S&W 15-22 (PC version with the newer M-LOK handguard)) and am very happy with it. The rifle feels and functions like an AR (although a bit lighter) and is pretty darn accurate out to 100 yds or so. It has also been VERY reliable if I feed it quality ammo. I run it with the flip up sights but also keep a dedicated red dot and scope (in a dedicated case with 4 mags) to adapt to the moment. It's an AWFUL lot of fun to shoot steel swingers, lollipops, crab apples...... True the dedicated gun costs a bit more than the other options but it's always ready to go and ammo savings (if there is such a thing) it pay for itself (someday
). Besides, I'm not in this sport to save money. This one gets used allot!BTW, Tippmann Arms now makes a M4 -22 that uses an aluminum upper and lower. It is VERY realistic. It might be worth a look if your leaning towards a dedicated platform. I've handled one just last week and the quality seemed high.
http://tippmannarms.com/
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Dedicated rifle vote here too.
I started with a BlackGog ( BCG type) conversion for my AR's. It functioned OK but accuracy was minute of beer can at best. Consider your shooting out of an inch of smooth bore chamber adapter that transitions to out to an overbored 1: 7or 8 twist AR barrel and it's not hard to understand why.
I also had a dedicated .22 upper for a while. It had the right chamber and a 1:16 twist barrel so shot tighter but deleted /diverted from many of the normal control functions on the AR. It also lacked the ability to add accessories/ customize. I wasn't a real fan and didn't see it's advantage over a basic 10/22. It stayed home in the safe allot.
I now run a S&W 15-22 (PC version with the newer M-LOK handguard)) and couldn't be happier. It feels and functions like an AR and is pretty darn accurate. It has also been VERY reliable if I feed it quality ammo. I run it often with the flip up sights but also keep a dedicated red dot and scope in a dedicated case (with a pile of mags) to adapt to the moment. It's an AWFUL lot of fun to shoot steel swingers, lollipops, crab apples...... True the dedicated gun costs a bit more but ammo savings (if there is such a thing) makes it pay for itself (someday
BTW, Tippmann Arms now makes a M4 -22 that is VERY realistic. It might be worth a look if your leaning towards a dedicated platform. I've handled one just last week and the quality seemed high.
http://tippmannarms.com/
Thanks for the very informative response.
I have a couple questions if you don't mind.
S&W 15-22 PC version: what is that?
The Tippmann ARms M4-22 dedicated platform, can you explain?
I thought the M&P 15-22 was a dedicated platform?
I have M&P 9mm pistol and love it, looking to get the compact and probably that Shield. So I like M&P and will probably stay in that with AR's
Thanks,
SouthernSlammed
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Check out M&P 15-22 PC (Performace Center) HERE!
Better tuned 15-22! I like the looks of it verse the original 15-22!
Wee Hooker
Member
Yes, as pointed out by SouthernSlammed, the 15-22PC is the Performance Center version of the 15-22. There are a few upgrades. Fluted barrel, match chamber, better trigger, better buttstock and grip, "Performance Center" markings on the receiver.....
The Tippmann Arms is also a dedicated AR-15 style .22 rifle ( not a conversion.) IT's built even closer to a true AR using all aluminum upper and lower receivers, buffer tube etc. It's just a different brand vs the S&W.
S&W has the history behind their model. The Tippmann is newish but seems to have good reviews. I've handled one and was impressed. Just not ready to give up my 15-22PC yet.
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Had a CMMG conversion unit in a regular M4gery some years back. mediocre accuracy, and in spite of proper cleaning it bulged the barrel. I dumped it, repaired the M4, and got a 15-22. 6000 rounds later, I wouldn't be without it. Have also bought about 3 others as gifts.
Buy quality. ONCE.
Buy quality. ONCE.
I have 3 15-22s, including 1 that has been integrally suppressed by Innovative Arms.
I also have 3 AR-15s, including 1 M&P 15 that has been SBR'd.
The M&P 15 lower now accepts:
8" 300 BLK
4.5" 9mm
4" 22lr (I got a mag-well block for this that allows it to accept 15-22 magazines!)
with just an upper receiver swap and (as necessary) a mag well block. All 3 are suppressed (the 5.56 barrel can also be suppressed).
I love my 15-22. But the M&P 15 with 4" 22lr suppressed is SWEET. It doesn't have the round count that the 15-22 does (probably 1k vs 25k), but it really is a thing of beauty. The 4" barrel, with suppressor tucked under the handguard is really nice.
3 years ago, I would have said 15-22 hands down. Now... Given that the 15-22 is 'harder' to SBR (since it has a proprietary barrel), AND you can't (easily, without potentially ruining the lower receiver) install a folding stock... I'd be inclined to say that since I can use OEM 15-22 magazines in my AR-15, and in < 5 minutes convert it to 9mm, or 300 blackout or 5.56... it's a no brainer...
I also have 3 AR-15s, including 1 M&P 15 that has been SBR'd.
The M&P 15 lower now accepts:
8" 300 BLK
4.5" 9mm
4" 22lr (I got a mag-well block for this that allows it to accept 15-22 magazines!)
with just an upper receiver swap and (as necessary) a mag well block. All 3 are suppressed (the 5.56 barrel can also be suppressed).
I love my 15-22. But the M&P 15 with 4" 22lr suppressed is SWEET. It doesn't have the round count that the 15-22 does (probably 1k vs 25k), but it really is a thing of beauty. The 4" barrel, with suppressor tucked under the handguard is really nice.
3 years ago, I would have said 15-22 hands down. Now... Given that the 15-22 is 'harder' to SBR (since it has a proprietary barrel), AND you can't (easily, without potentially ruining the lower receiver) install a folding stock... I'd be inclined to say that since I can use OEM 15-22 magazines in my AR-15, and in < 5 minutes convert it to 9mm, or 300 blackout or 5.56... it's a no brainer...
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Any more info?
Maybe some pics of using the same lower with multiple uppers like your doing?
Wish granted. On top is a 15-22 with an Innovative Arms Integral suppressor. This is not a short barrel rifle as the suppressor is 16.25".
The M&P 15 lower receiver is below and to the left. Below it is a 9mm magazine adapter that accepts Colt-pattern magazines. To the right of that is a 15-22 magazine adapter that accepts 15-22 OEM magazines. Both provide 'last round bolt-hold open' capabilities. Both fit into an AR-15 magazine well from the bottom. The 9mm magazine adapter locks in place via tension screws. The 15-22 magazine adapter has a spring loaded bar that provides sufficient tension.
To the right of the M&P 15 lower receiver are 3 upper receivers. In order:
- 8" 300 Blackout with suppressor
- 4.5" 9mm with Liberty Mystic X suppressor (the barrel ends where the Picatinny rail mount is, on the bottom of the handguard; that's because before I had the suppressor, I didn't want to burn my hand)
- 9" CMMG 22lr barrel with Sparrow suppressor (thought it was 4", but it's 9"; overall, with the suppressor, it is SHORTER [by about 1"] than the integrally suppressed 15-22)
All three of these fit onto the M&P 15 lower receiver. They will NOT fit on the M&P 15-22 lower receiver by design. Of course, not shown is the original 16.25" 5.56 upper receiver.
9mm is the most 'tricky' of the 4 - it requires a different buffer (and bolt). 9mm bolts are also finicky WRT trigger and hammer combinations. Not all AR15 triggers/hammers work with 9mm bolts.
To switch between, say AR15 chambered in 5.56 to an AR15 chambered in 9mm, you do the following:
1) Use the pivot and takedown pins to separate the 5.56 upper receiver from the AR15 lower receiver
2) Remove the 5.56 buffer and buffer spring (in my case, JP Enterprise Silent Capture Spring)
3) Insert 9mm buffer and buffer spring into AR15 buffer tube
4) Insert 9mm magwell adapter into AR15 magazine well; tighten with allen wrench
5) Attach 9mm upper receiver (with 9mm bolt) onto AR15 lower receiver
It really is THAT simple. You do have to double check your magazines and ammo when switching to/from 5.56 to 300 blackout though.
Now THATs some gun porn!
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More importantly, what is the total cost to build your conversions vice going with the 15-22, PC or otherwise?
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You can get a 15-22 for around $400 out the door.
You can get an AR-15 / M&P 15 for about the same (maybe $500). If you were to, for instance, get your own lower receiver, and your own upper receiver, you could get an AR-15 lower for about $150, and a CMMG barrelled upper receiver is $525, so total out the door is $675 roughly. You probably can do $50 or more better if you assemble everything yourself.
Suppressors and SBRs are a different matter - in the picture above, there is $1000 in tax stamps (4 suppressors, 1 SBR). The suppressors add another $2500.
Yes it's more. No question. I started with the 15-22 and worked my way up. You aren't going to beat the 15-22 for entry level. Folks rarely stay at entry level.
Wee Hooker
Member
A BCG conversion can be had for less than $200 if you shop around.
A SW15-22 rifle will run you in the $250 (used) to 650 (for a new PC) . There is a good deal going on right now where you can get a standard 15-22 with range bag and matching M&P red dot for $400 +/-.
The Tippmann (and a few other dedicated rifle brands) will run $500+/-.
There is also another option not discussed yet. You can purchase a dedicated Upper (only) to drop on your SWMP15 lower. TAC-SOL, CMMG , PSA, Chiappa and a few other companies make them. These will run $289 (for the Chiappa) on up to $750 or so with the average being $500 . I have a friend who just got a $350 PSA (Palmeto State Armory) and it seems very well made. Accurate and reliable (with Black Dog mags) too. So much so, I may need one next
All that said, money saved on something that doesn't meet expectations is wasted money. My advice is to buy what you think will work for you.
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