M&p 2.0, apex kit worth it?

[NewToGuns17]

And is there any polishing or modding i should do in there while i have everything apart to improve feel or functionality?

 

[NewToGuns17]

Is that little ridge supposed to be there?

 

[Smakmauz]

Here's a question. I see that there are two new springs included in the kit.

If you got the whole kit, then you should have all new trigger spring, sear spring, and striker block spring along with the striker block itself, the sear and trigger shoe.

If i put both in or just one or the other, what will that do? In a video i saw, they put in the heavier trigger spring but stuck with the stock sear spring. What if i did both apex springs? Or both stock springs?

First thing to remember is that ALL 3 of the apex springs you should have in the kit are heavier than stock. then its good to know where in the trigger pull they come most into play. The trigger return spring will affect overall trigger pull weight with emphasis on the pretravel. The striker block spring will add a tiny bit of weight to the point of the "wall" just prior to the break. And the sear spring (which is a lot heavier than stock) will affect the break weight itself.

I don't want sneeze on it light. I want to be able to slowly pull back without the trigger "skipping" or my finger shaking as i pull. What does a heavier trigger spring do for my trigger? And what does a heavier sear spring do?

The apex sear spring is much heavier than stock to make up for the substantial weight reduction cause by the design of the apex sear.

The apex trigger spring is heavier than stock as well but by a slimmer margin than the sear spring. The heavier trigger return spring in the 1.0's would actually increase not only the pull weight but also enhance the reset characteristic as well which was kinda nice. not sure about that effect on the 2.0 but I suspect it might be the same.

In the end, I would tell you to install everything Apex and then see if there's anything you would like to change and then you can use my guide. I will tell you that with the duty\carry setup, I tend to opt for the factory trigger spring and striker block spring and then do the apex trigger shoe, sear and sear spring and then I usually just stone and polish the original factory striker block to a domed profile (i have a system that works well). with the longer pre-travel, I don't like that to be too heavy. I like a lighter first stage into a medium wall and a nice crisp short break at the end.

With FSS kits I go all apex because those are a different animal but I won't go into that right now.

 

[Smakmauz]

And is there any polishing or modding i should do in there while i have everything apart to improve feel or functionality?

Part 2....

I actually do quite a bit of polishing when I detail strip these guns. Its not really needed but I have noticed that it basically makes a brand new gun feel like a buttery broken in gun.

I polish all the rails, the trigger bar, the sear plunger, the little nub on the slide stop lever that runs against the trigger bar, the locking block area that contacts the barrel lug, and at least the top edge of the ejector. Basically any metal to metal surface that isn't melonited (nitrided, amornited). Polishing the apex parts doesn't seem to help anything because they are all well machined and pretty smooth but it won't really hurt them unless you go way overboard or something. I also pull apart the striker and polish that too, paying attention not to round off the edges of the striker-to-sear area.

 

[Smakmauz]

Is that little ridge supposed to be there?

and part 3...

Hard to tell from the pic exactly what ridge your talking about but I will say that there can be a lot of tooling or casting marks on the trigger bars of these guns on that lobe area that the red arrow is pointing to. and there's usually some scratch looking lines on the side and that's normal with the function of the M&P trigger system. There's kind of a sharp milled section of the slide that "bumps" into it when the slide cycles back and that's what resets the trigger. After the gun has cycled several times, its usually as bad as it gets. after that, the part is essentially worn in to that gun. I polish the hell out of that nub of the trigger bar to deburr and smooth out any tool or casting marks because that's what contacts the striker block and can cause some grit in the trigger pull.

Hopefully all that helped!!

 

[NewToGuns17]

Thank you for the explanation. So rather than good the polish route, I think I'll let it all wear together. As a goal . Now with all the springs in the kit, I see it brings it to 5-5.5lb. Imagining in my head, a lighter sear spring will allow the sear to pivot a bit easier, reducing trigger weight through the range of the pull, correct? The striker block spring would allow it to retract into the slide easier if it were stock as well, right? And the trigger return spring would make for a more solid springy trigger if I use the apex? If I skip all their springs, the break weight of the trigger would be much less, making it unsafe? Or just touchier? I think I will do all springs from the kit but I'm interested to see what a mix does. I want a short travel, non smushy trigger with a fast break. That's how I have had triggers on non fire arms modded, but they also weren't carry guns. What are the downsides to using stock springs and apex striker block, trigger shoe and sear?

 

[Smakmauz]

Imagining in my head, a lighter sear spring will allow the sear to pivot a bit easier, reducing trigger weight through the range of the pull, correct

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Not all the way. Just towards the end once the trigger bar engages the sear which happens just after the striker block is disengaged (with stock and apex duty/carry type kits)

The striker block spring would allow it to retract into the slide easier if it were stock as well, right

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Right.

And the trigger return spring would make for a more solid springy trigger if I use the apex

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Yes, throughout the entire pull cycle.

If I skip all their springs, the break weight of the trigger would be much less, making it unsafe?

Unsafe is subjective. I will say that when I did my shield with all the stock springs and just the apex sear, I ended up with a very crisp, light break right at about 3.5lbs. Some people would be fine with that but personally I like about a 4.5lb break on my striker fired no-manual-safety defensive triggers. And I prefer to have a bit of take up or "pre-travel". I'm not a 1911 cocked and locked kind of guy. I prefer a simpler point and shoot system. Not that there's anything wrong 1911's... just personal preference.

I want a short travel, non smushy trigger with a fast break

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So let's talk about travel for a second and how the springs interact on the M&P series. From start of trigger pull (or press) to the end where the trigger stops, I think of as 3 different stages. Stage 1 is the pre-travel (or take up). This stage uses the trigger spring for the majority and then just prior to 2nd stage, the striker block and spring. At the end of stage 1 when the trigger bar engages the striker block, the tension of the striker block spring "stacks" on or adds to the tension of trigger spring. Stage 1.5 is the wall. Really i group this in with stage 1 but i wanted to explain a bit more on it.This is where the trigger bar engages the sear. The strength of the wall depends a lot on the sear spring at this point with a small amount being how light stage 1 is. Stage 2 is the break. This one is pretty simple. Striker drops and gun go bang. At this point the sear spring tension stacks on top of both the trigger spring and the striker block spring and of course the striker spring. Stage 3 is over travel. And this is the one that not many focus on and in my opinion is almost as important to accuracy as the break itself...if not more. To much over travel I think is why so many right handed people shoot low and left with glocks. After the striker drops, the trigger continues to travel until it hits some kind of mechanical stop. Because the striker has dropped at this point the resistance has all of the sudden dopped to and your finger sort of jolts back into the frame with a good amount of force. The more over travel, the longer the distance there is to build up a stronger jolt. Does that make sense? This jolt is happening at the same time the gun is firing. If you decrease the amount of over travel, you lessen the that jolt that throws off the accuracy. Trigger reset is sort of like stage 4 but I'm no gonna talk about that on this post.

So now we get to the apex parts. The apex dut/carry trigger shoe does take out a bit of the pre-travel and over travel and the sear shortens the overall break a bit. so the break on the apex sear is short and crisp. Triggers like the FSS kit get rid of the majority of the pre travel but that part isnt really adjustable on tje 2.0 system. The only unfortunate part about the 2.0 is that the new trigger bar and sear interface removes the ability to easily fine tune the over travel of the system. On the 1.0 you could adjust that very easily with the trigger bar loop. It's a trade off though because the new system I think makes for a more solid interface and a more consistent pull.

What are the downsides to using stock springs and apex striker block, trigger shoe and sear?

Again, I'm gonna say that "downside" is subjective. The results would be lighter over all trigger feel mostly. Possibly reduced reset feel. The tension ratio between pretravel and break might not be ideal but that will depend on shooter. I like my pretravel to be much lighter than the break so I can really feel the wall when staging my trigger.


Man I'm long winded...

 

[Trailryder50]

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Man I'm long winded...

But don't you think for a moment it's not appreciated.

To add to the discussion, I'm going to buy just the Apex trigger which comes with the new sear spring and buy the Apex sear separate. Plan on using the stock springs all around, but I'll have the stiffer sear spring just in case things are too light.

 

[Smakmauz]

But don't you think for a moment it's not appreciated.

To add to the discussion, I'm going to buy just the Apex trigger which comes with the new sear spring and buy the Apex sear separate. Plan on using the stock springs all around, but I'll have the stiffer sear spring just in case things are too light.

Good plan! I've found so far that, so far I have preferred the apex sear with their spring. Personally I think they should put the sear spring with the sear. Never have been able to figure out why they put it with the trigger shoe when bought separate. Because if you use the apex trigger shoe with the stock sear, I wouldn't use the apex sear spring because the stock sear is heavy enough. Or maybe sell the sear spring with both or something. Some places out their like speed shooter specialties actually sells some of the individual apex parts that they don't list on their site. I'm sure you could probably order over the phone with apex if you needed to...

 

[STRATOKERBEROS]

I installed an Apex duty carry kit with the aluminum trigger in my 1.0C and it was a noticeable improvement. I also have a new 2.0C that has the stock trigger. In my opinion there is not enough difference between the Apex and stock trigger on the 2.0C to justify the cost to upgrade. I think the trigger on the 2.0C is pretty good out of the box. That's my worthless opinion.

my 2.0 compact is my first SW, but by all accounts that i've read, mine has the same gritty trigger that all seem to complain about. i cant imagine that they 'fixed' anything in the 2.0.

 

[Trailryder50]

. i cant imagine that they 'fixed' anything in the 2.0.

Well, certainly not the trigger bar. It seems S&Ws tooling is leaving performance suffering damage in the bar. Some are really bad, like the picture. Mine wasn't quite that bad but definitely needed work to polish out.

Another source of grittiness is the striker block plunger spring. It is captured on the end of the cover plate in 2.0, unlike the old design of the MP 1.0. The old design allowed the spring to self center under the metal cover plate.

I've noticed the nub on my plate is not quite centered, so the cover plate could be holding the spring offset in its hole, causing you to feel coil bind with the hole walls as the plunger is depressed. I'm thinking about cutting that nub off the 2.0s plastic plate and letting the spring self center.

 

[Philadelphia Patriot]

Just put 200 rounds today through my new full size M&P 9 2.0. I'm a trigger snob and I think my gun is perfect from the factory.

 

[NewToGuns17]

Got daring and polished. I had to take a diamond file to the 3 angles because every one had large machining marks. Only took off what I had to and matched the angles. Then polished with 2500 grit paper and then dremel polishing wheel. Polished the back/ bottom of the striker too. Hope I did it right!

 

[NewToGuns17]

So long as the gun resets and releases the firing pin, all is well, correct? Excuse my questions, I'm new to firearms but not to tinkering!

 

[impactbumper]

Just put 200 rounds today through my new full size M&P 9 2.0. I'm a trigger snob and I think my gun is perfect from the factory.

Same here. People are too caught up on triggers... shoot. Shoot a lot.

However, i might do a polish job because i like the idea.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Smakmauz]

So long as the gun resets and releases the firing pin, all is well, correct?

for the most part, yes. you can get into modifications with these that can remove a lot of the pre-travel but then your're into modifying the chassis (putting in set screws and the like) and then you can end up defeating the striker safety if you don't REALLY know what your doing.

I don't recommend getting that deep. I could do it but I haven't really felt the need. and Apex FSS kits solve that anyway, unless someone wants to do a shield where no FSS kit is available. There was one guy I saw on here that did that to his shield. he basically installed a set screw that held the trigger bar in a partially "pulled" position but had it resting at the point just before the trigger safety hit the frame. at that point the trigger bar hasn't engaged the striker block so it was technically just as safe as stock. Like I said though, I wouldn't advise you do anything like that just yet.... if at all.

Excuse my questions, I'm new to firearms but not to tinkering!

No worries, I like sharing what I've learned.

 

[NewToGuns17]

for the most part, yes. you can get into modifications with these that can remove a lot of the pre-travel but then your're into modifying the chassis (putting in set screws and the like) and then you can end up defeating the striker safety if you don't REALLY know what your doing.

I don't recommend getting that deep. I could do it but I haven't really felt the need. and Apex FSS kits solve that anyway, unless someone wants to do a shield where no FSS kit is available. There was one guy I saw on here that did that to his shield. he basically installed a set screw that held the trigger bar in a partially "pulled" position but had it resting at the point just before the trigger safety hit the frame. at that point the trigger bar hasn't engaged the striker block so it was technically just as safe as stock. Like I said though, I wouldn't advise you do anything like that just yet.... if at all.



No worries, I like sharing what I've learned.

i dont feel comfortable modifying that far just yet! I just removed the bad stamping marks on the trigger bar and then flattened it out and made sure everything was ground straight. then hit it with sandpaper and then polished. I took little off (as far as i can tell, but i'm a perfectionist so i kept at it until it was aesthetically perfect lol) but all functions normal. My trigger kit is lost in the loop somewhere in USPS land so once i get that i'll see how it does. I hope all the polishing i did was for a good cause! I've learned a lot from you, i appreciate you taking the time to reply.

 

[Smakmauz]

Same here. People are too caught up on triggers... shoot. Shoot a lot.

However, i might do a polish job because i like the idea.


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The difference between good and great. I shoot very well with the stock system but the apex system is just a lot more refined. Makes the experience even more enjoyable. Tighter groups and faster transitions.

some people like to tinker as well and I think that's a really good thing. because as long as they're being safe about it, it will give you intimate knowledge of your weapon system... how all the pieces interact and make you better equipped to handle a possible malfunction or a repair in the future.

Are they needed? some might say yes if they got a bad stock system but, in general, no. Are they fun? heck yeah!! I can shoot none of my guns faster and more accurately than my M&P 1.0 with the apex FSS kit. And its not because of training or practice... its because it mechanically changes the pull distance and weight.

 

[Smakmauz]

Just put 200 rounds today through my new full size M&P 9 2.0. I'm a trigger snob and I think my gun is perfect from the factory.

I've been lucky with all mine as well. All of mine have been pretty darn good. The 2.0 is definitely an improved system overall IMO. Seems they just struggle with QC. Lot of people getting these really rough trigger bars and gritty striker blocks. I wish they would just put in their PC striker block... nice round dome. more expensive though I guess to machine that rounded dome than the chamferred thing they put in them now. still the pre-travel grit seems to be less often now. before they were REALLY bad.

 

[Smakmauz]

i dont feel comfortable modifying that far just yet! I just removed the bad stamping marks on the trigger bar and then flattened it out and made sure everything was ground straight. then hit it with sandpaper and then polished. I took little off (as far as i can tell, but i'm a perfectionist so i kept at it until it was aesthetically perfect lol) but all functions normal. My trigger kit is lost in the loop somewhere in USPS land so once i get that i'll see how it does. I hope all the polishing i did was for a good cause! I've learned a lot from you, i appreciate you taking the time to reply.

I really like the rubber polishing points for the dremel tools for some of this stuff. I get off brand ones on amazon and they have different grits but all pretty fine. Its just a grit tha'ts impregnated into the rubber and they just sort of wear down as they get used. Jewelers use them a lot. I also will use really fine diamond files to keep edges from getting too rounded off and then felt wheels or points with different kinds of polishing compounds or flitz. I've got a lot of different tricks and tools and doo dads and junk. I tinker with everything... not just guns