Kenneth L. Walters
Member
Are these actually made by Smith or are then another Umarex disaster?
If Smith is making them, are they available yet?
If Smith is making them, are they available yet?
M&P 22
- Thread starter Kenneth L. Walters
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They are Umarex ("made by the .22 experts at Carl Walther, GmbH for Smith & Wesson"). They are not here (U.S.) yet. Per S&W customer service, shipments are expected in August and September. They are heavily backordered.
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handgunner356
Member
Handled one at the dealers show, looked like a P22 made to look like the M&P to me.
OP
Kenneth L. Walters
Member
Umarex
I've got two Walther made P22's. Excellent guns.
I bought a Walther SP22. Sent it back to Smith four times. They never fixed it. Always came back with the problems it was sent in for. That was an Umarex gun. You couldn't give me another.
I've got two Walther made P22's. Excellent guns.
I bought a Walther SP22. Sent it back to Smith four times. They never fixed it. Always came back with the problems it was sent in for. That was an Umarex gun. You couldn't give me another.
BigRich315
Member
I thought there was something fishy behind them, they are too different from the regular M&Ps. I've been wanting a good semi-auto .22 and initially got excited when I came across these. Looks like that might change.
DavidC77
Member
S&W have them on there web page
M&P22 - .22LR - Smith & Wesson
I talked with the guys at the shooting center the other day and they have shot the pre production ones and liked them.
They told me that they are in production now.
I want one, but, I want S&W to make a 22 kit for the M&P's. I want a kit for both my FS and compact.
M&P22 - .22LR - Smith & Wesson
I talked with the guys at the shooting center the other day and they have shot the pre production ones and liked them.
They told me that they are in production now.
I want one, but, I want S&W to make a 22 kit for the M&P's. I want a kit for both my FS and compact.
DavidC77
Member
Release date is soon according to the guys at the S&W SC.
Click on the link above. Ah here go's:
Model:
M&P22
.Caliber:
.22 LR
.Capacity:
10+1 Rounds
.Action:
Single Action
.Barrel Length:
4.1" / 10.4 cm
.Front Sight:
Drift Adjustable
.Rear Sight:
Click Adjustable
.Overall Length:
7.6' / 19.3 cm
.Weight:
24 oz. / 680.4 g
.Grip:
Polymer, Fixed Backstrap
.Frame Material:
Metal
.Slide Material:
Aluminum-Aerospace Alloy
.Finish:
Black
.Other Features:
Ambidextrous Manual Safety
Ambidextrous Slide Stop
Reversible Magazine Release
Picatinny-Style Accessory Rail
.Purpose:
Recreational
Personal Protection
Home Protection
Professional / Duty
.
So yes poly/metal frame, Alum slide.
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twomoons
Member
the umarex colt 22 was a disaster.everyone my ealer sold was sent back.
i was hoping sw had made the mp 22 in house like the other mp guns.
they have hit a home run with their mp guns,as all of us know.i was waitting for a mp 22 .but,i shot a cz the other day,in a 22 caliber.loved the gun
so thats my choice.
i could be wrong,it would not be the first time.their are a lot of 22 cal guns being made now,by sig,chiappa,gsg,all of you gun guys have seen the new models.
which means a lot of competition by gun makers to get you to buy their gun,because its better.
i dont think a umarex gun will do it for a lot of guys.
my 2 centworth
happy fourth ladies and gents
i was hoping sw had made the mp 22 in house like the other mp guns.
they have hit a home run with their mp guns,as all of us know.i was waitting for a mp 22 .but,i shot a cz the other day,in a 22 caliber.loved the gun
so thats my choice.
i could be wrong,it would not be the first time.their are a lot of 22 cal guns being made now,by sig,chiappa,gsg,all of you gun guys have seen the new models.
which means a lot of competition by gun makers to get you to buy their gun,because its better.
i dont think a umarex gun will do it for a lot of guys.
my 2 centworth
happy fourth ladies and gents
BigRich315
Member
Notice the specs, especially the fixed polymer backstrap (aka solid plastic grip). The feel is going to be nothing like the regular line. I was hoping this could be a great training aid, but it's going to fall short of that. It's more like my M&P BB gun than my M&P40. I'd rather see a .22LR conversion for the real thing.
Rangel
Member
I'm soured on Walther and a S&W--Walther hybrid might be Bride of Frankenstein. I'll wait for hopefully someone to finally get it right on making a pistol that reliably shoots 22 magnum rounds. If I want a pretty gun that's been around a while and shoots regular 22 longs, I can buy a Ruger--that way I can practice my swearing, as I try and break it down without scratching the bejesus out of it.
But the 22 MAGNUM?---now there's a fast, hot round that's literally a blast to shoot and the ammo's not too expensive. Years back Grendel made one, Kel-Tec had one briefly (PMR-30) that was selling like crazy, but they could never keep up with demand, and production was ended (not temporarily halted) due to key holing and other issues.
Even when they--'whoever' come/s out with the 'next' 22 magnum pistol, and they surely will soon, I'd advise waiting at least six months to see what 'quirks' need fixing, because knowing there's a mighty hungry market for such a hand gun, they might be in a hurry to get it on LGS shelves. I don't think I want to be anyone's 'beta tester' with a lethal weapon and if Walther made it, it'd only have their standard USA one year warranty--something like that, I'd almost consider as a possible throwaway gun before too long. Shamey. Walther?: Bad, James Bad.....
But the 22 MAGNUM?---now there's a fast, hot round that's literally a blast to shoot and the ammo's not too expensive. Years back Grendel made one, Kel-Tec had one briefly (PMR-30) that was selling like crazy, but they could never keep up with demand, and production was ended (not temporarily halted) due to key holing and other issues.
Even when they--'whoever' come/s out with the 'next' 22 magnum pistol, and they surely will soon, I'd advise waiting at least six months to see what 'quirks' need fixing, because knowing there's a mighty hungry market for such a hand gun, they might be in a hurry to get it on LGS shelves. I don't think I want to be anyone's 'beta tester' with a lethal weapon and if Walther made it, it'd only have their standard USA one year warranty--something like that, I'd almost consider as a possible throwaway gun before too long. Shamey. Walther?: Bad, James Bad.....
Kel-Tec is still producing the PMR-30, with production at 500 units a week. The keyholing issue only caused a two week suspension in deliveries over a month ago. There is still an issue with supply, but that is only due to its popularity. I have seen serial numbers that indiate that there have been over 8,500 built so far.
I have had one since November, and paid a normal price for it. Being one of the first ones off of the production line, I have had to send it back twice, and this last time I got essentially a brand new gun (they replaced everything except the receiver). Altogether, I have fired around 3,200 rounds through it, with the last 500 being since the rebuilding. In its current configuration, it has proven to be an accurate and reliable firearm.
Rangel
Member
Rgkitchen,
Thanks for that info-there's been some mixed signals regarding this gun, problems with their suppliers, delays, etc., But overall, I've heard that Kel-Tec's customer service, with this and their other products, has been pretty good, as in this case, where they'll ship you a new redesign of an upgraded barrel, for the 'old PMR-30' at no cost---not even charging for P&H. Glad you didn't get ripped off--they were asking ridiculous prices on gunbroker for this gun. Hard one to find--no gyn shops on-line or storefront that I've checked have had any for quite a while.
Nonetheless, it's nice to see this company building a reputation for decent guns with great service, at an affordable price--and built in Florida, USA!
Still, it sounds like from Kel-Tec's release below, that the 'new' gun's going to be quite a bit diferent in how it's built--in it's look and feel. I hope it retains the same magazine capacity, but I'm not sure if they'll even retain the same name at this point. You may have a collector's item in your collection sometime down the road!
BTW--how do you like the gun sights--the colors and the way they're set up on your PMR-30?--Thanks!
From Kel-Tec:
>>As time has progressed, so has the PMR-30. Since the start of the year the PMR-30 has been shipping in full quantities to all of our distributors on a rotating basis (to make it fair for all distributors). Recently we have been made aware of a potential issue that we feel our customers should definitely be made aware of. We are in the middle of a re-design to our barrel due to key-holing concerns. For those unfamiliar with key-holing, basically it is when the bullet tumbles end over end rather than travelling stable with a solid spiral. It seems as though the 1:16 twist ratio of our barrels isn't quite preventing these issues from occurring. We are currently testing new twist ratios for the PMR-30 so that these issues no longer occur (1:9 and 1:12). There has also been a cosmetic change to the barrel: we have removed the fluting on the barrel. The initial fluted design was for weight reduction, however it was time-consuming to produce. We have created a new design that matches the weight and decreases production time significantly. It will look like a more traditional pistol. IMPORTANT: For customers who DO own a PMR-30 and are experiencing key-holing, you may send your barrel in to be replaced by the newly redesigned versions once they are available. When they are available, a status update will be made so that our customers know that they can go ahead and send their barrel in for replacement. Shipping costs will be reimbursed, of course. Once the new design is tested and implemented, we will post all necessary information for sending back your defective barrel for replacement. As of today: 5/10/2011, we are halting shipments on the PMR-30 to reduce the number of potential key-holing pistols that go out. We estimate a 2-week period until shipments are resumed. We sincerely apologize to everyone who is affected by this. We hope that our customers understand that we are trying hard to make sure that the best possible product goes out.<Edit--add on
>>PMR-30 Status Update V - 05-23-2011 - The new barrels are finished and we've resumed normal PMR-30 shipments. The new twist rate of the barrels has eliminated the potential for key-holing. It ended up coming out to a 1:11 twist.<<
Thanks for that info-there's been some mixed signals regarding this gun, problems with their suppliers, delays, etc., But overall, I've heard that Kel-Tec's customer service, with this and their other products, has been pretty good, as in this case, where they'll ship you a new redesign of an upgraded barrel, for the 'old PMR-30' at no cost---not even charging for P&H. Glad you didn't get ripped off--they were asking ridiculous prices on gunbroker for this gun. Hard one to find--no gyn shops on-line or storefront that I've checked have had any for quite a while.
Nonetheless, it's nice to see this company building a reputation for decent guns with great service, at an affordable price--and built in Florida, USA!
Still, it sounds like from Kel-Tec's release below, that the 'new' gun's going to be quite a bit diferent in how it's built--in it's look and feel. I hope it retains the same magazine capacity, but I'm not sure if they'll even retain the same name at this point. You may have a collector's item in your collection sometime down the road!
BTW--how do you like the gun sights--the colors and the way they're set up on your PMR-30?--Thanks!
From Kel-Tec:
>>As time has progressed, so has the PMR-30. Since the start of the year the PMR-30 has been shipping in full quantities to all of our distributors on a rotating basis (to make it fair for all distributors). Recently we have been made aware of a potential issue that we feel our customers should definitely be made aware of. We are in the middle of a re-design to our barrel due to key-holing concerns. For those unfamiliar with key-holing, basically it is when the bullet tumbles end over end rather than travelling stable with a solid spiral. It seems as though the 1:16 twist ratio of our barrels isn't quite preventing these issues from occurring. We are currently testing new twist ratios for the PMR-30 so that these issues no longer occur (1:9 and 1:12). There has also been a cosmetic change to the barrel: we have removed the fluting on the barrel. The initial fluted design was for weight reduction, however it was time-consuming to produce. We have created a new design that matches the weight and decreases production time significantly. It will look like a more traditional pistol. IMPORTANT: For customers who DO own a PMR-30 and are experiencing key-holing, you may send your barrel in to be replaced by the newly redesigned versions once they are available. When they are available, a status update will be made so that our customers know that they can go ahead and send their barrel in for replacement. Shipping costs will be reimbursed, of course. Once the new design is tested and implemented, we will post all necessary information for sending back your defective barrel for replacement. As of today: 5/10/2011, we are halting shipments on the PMR-30 to reduce the number of potential key-holing pistols that go out. We estimate a 2-week period until shipments are resumed. We sincerely apologize to everyone who is affected by this. We hope that our customers understand that we are trying hard to make sure that the best possible product goes out.<Edit--add on
>>PMR-30 Status Update V - 05-23-2011 - The new barrels are finished and we've resumed normal PMR-30 shipments. The new twist rate of the barrels has eliminated the potential for key-holing. It ended up coming out to a 1:11 twist.<<
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Even though I have a fairly low serial numbered unit, since it was rebuilt in May, it is now identical to the units that are being shipped today. I have all of the current upgrades, including the new barrel. It feels, handles, and functions pretty much the same as when I first received it (I say "pretty much" only because it has become more accurate and more reliable as it has been through the upgrades). It is still as light as advertised, and the magazines still hold 30 rounds, although I only load them to 25 (that evenly splits a box of ammo between two magazines).
The customer service at Kel-Tec is beyond exceptional. They have been very pleasant and helpful both on the phone and through e-mail. They even sent me a free magazine for all of my troubles. I have no complaints about how I am treated as a Kel-Tec customer.
The sights are very visible, however, they are not adjustable, and the gap between the rear posts seems a little wide to me. There is a lot of side to side wiggle room when lining up the sights. However, I am either becoming a better shot, or the gun is getting a lot more accurate, since more and more of my hits are in the black.
25 Rounds Federal Game-Shok 50gr. JHP @ 25'
25 Rounds Federal Game-Shok 50gr. JHP @ 50'
Since this is an M&P 22 thread, I'll stop replying here. If anyone wants to discuss the PMR-30 with an actual owner and user, we can continue this discussion in the Lounge.
such sad news
That is sad news (re: poor quality of S&W M&P .22 LR). I have been constantly on the watch for this since "Front Sight" commented on it during the Shot Show review, but ...
I really could not be more impressed with my 9 Pro. My loyalty to S.A. keeps me trying the old tricked-out XD's (5), but everything about the M&P is stunningly impressive to me. Everything! So of course I am looking for them to provide a similar rimfire as a practice piece ... but it does not sound good.
So sad.
~ E Mont
That is sad news (re: poor quality of S&W M&P .22 LR). I have been constantly on the watch for this since "Front Sight" commented on it during the Shot Show review, but ...
I really could not be more impressed with my 9 Pro. My loyalty to S.A. keeps me trying the old tricked-out XD's (5), but everything about the M&P is stunningly impressive to me. Everything! So of course I am looking for them to provide a similar rimfire as a practice piece ... but it does not sound good.
So sad.
~ E Mont
Arthury
Member
Are u sure about this? Any documentation references?
In this official image, it seems to say otherwise ...
I'm not sure where they are made. But Federal law requires that the importers location (Springfield, MA) be on the frame (if they are the importer). Just like SA does on the XD's; they are made in Croatia.
The Made in USA image is interesting. I don't think Umarex is making anything here.
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