M&P 40 Blew up!

[jcs152112]

I have the invoice from the store in Lubbock where I paid $749.95 for the pistol. Everything I stated was true. They had only one pistol with them,, that is the only one he did own. I had given it to him for Christmas. He reloads his own 6.8spc for his Rock River and his 270 for his Remington. I have no reason to doubt him. The store is going to help me and I am waiting for another call from Smith after the holiday. Hope everyone has a good Monday.

 

[jcs152112]

sorry I was mistake, since someone mentioned Fred's they must know where I live. There is another called Sharpsh****'s I am looking at the invoice where for a b5411 Smith & wesson MP SN#HPW**** they charged me $779.95. Yes, I was a dumb***, but I learned a good lesson. I have pictures of the gun damaged by USPS and received a check for $50 from them today for the damage since it was insured for the $50. It took less than 2 weeks for the US government to settle a claim and after nearly 2 months I am still waiting on another. I am just giving up and considering it a lesson learned. Stay away from plastic. Goodbye again...this time for good!! I will contact the administrator and cancel my membership asap.

 

[Kanewpadle]

You came here for help? How can we help? This forum is not associated with S&W. All you did was complain and bad mouth S&W.

Look at from our point of view. People come here and complain like it's somehow going to do them some good. We never heard so much as a peep from them while they were enjoying their other S&W products! And they never tell us the whole complete story or show us pics. And when the matter is resolved, IF it's resolved, those complainers almost never tell us how it turned out.

 

[Bill G77]

Just saying, still not one picture of the damaged pistol after all this debate ??????

Shoot Safe All,
Bill G77

 

[Rick_A]

No need to be so hasty. Most catastrophic failures of the sort are ammunition.

The advice to contact the ammo manufacturer is spot on. The response from S&W is what should be expected. They more than anyone know what failures of every type look like in their pistols as well as the likely cause.

 

[Llando88]

sorry I was mistake, since someone mentioned Fred's they must know where I live. There is another called Sharpsh****'s I am looking at the invoice where for a b5411 Smith & wesson MP SN#HPW**** they charged me $779.95. Yes, I was a dumb***, but I learned a good lesson. I have pictures of the gun damaged by USPS and received a check for $50 from them today for the damage since it was insured for the $50. It took less than 2 weeks for the US government to settle a claim and after nearly 2 months I am still waiting on another. I am just giving up and considering it a lesson learned. Stay away from plastic. Goodbye again...this time for good!! I will contact the administrator and cancel my membership asap.

Bless your heart.

Sorry you had an issue. Good luck with the Kimbers.

 

[Bob O]

I can see "maybe" not taking pictures from the range or where ever this occurred. But not a single pic before sending it back to S&W??

Just exactly how are we supposed to help?

 

[jstanfield103]

Sorry to hear about the M&P, but I am very happy no one was seriously hurt.
I to would think that S&W would have to send the gun back so you could then get in touch with the ammo manufacturer and hopefully the would help you. I would be hacked and maybe also as said take it up the ladder. I am glad I converted my 40 Pro to a 9mm.
Good Luck to you.

 

[B0308]

These threads are like car wrecks, you know you shouldn't look, but you do.

 

[MyDads38]

Just a couple of observations:

A 20 year old WITHOUT a cell phone that doesn't take pictures?

I was at the local range when 2 young guys were firing several different handguns. The fellow who owned the guns, brought his friend-who was in the Marines. The fellow who owned the guns, could at least hit a standard size target at 10 yards; the fellow who was supposed to be a Marine, could barely operate a semi-auto pistol and couldn't hit paper at 10 yards.

I've seen pics of guns that have blown up from some type of ammo malfunction-most here on this Forum. A lot of stories of 40 cal. guns blowing up. That nobody bothered to take any pictures of what happened or of the gun, when things like this can go viral in a matter of hours; sounds a little strange to say the least, to me anyway.

I'm not making any calls on what the OP has presented, some of it just doesn't add up to me. There can be bad ammo, guns can blow up and not all Service men or women know how to use/handle firearms properly.

I would like to know how this turns out, but I doubt that will happen.

 

[S. Kelly]

OP spends $779.95 on an M&P40c? Doesn't sound right, that's a $400 gun. I suspect someone pulling our chain. My advice? Get a Glock.

 

[vipermd]

Your sku should start with 1 or 2, not b5411. I mentioned Fred's because they tend to be on the high side in prices, since you said you purchased in Lubbock. In post #31 you finally stated that it was Win USA unknown weight. I will ask again was the case damaged? How? Did you have head separation? Have you contacted Winchester? If you believe the S&W did not "test" ammo, I have know idea if they have the ability to do so. I was unfamiliar with the vernacular of "lease", I understand what you mean now. I recommend cats- 20 yrs all the equipment in the barn and never had a problem with mice/rats. As for the gun- I would contact S&W and push it up the chain of command and get them to document that it was ammo not metallurgy, and have them work with you to get Winchester to pay for the pistol. I am not saying you are a liar, just that the facts as presented do not follow what damage should be. Where was the "friend" standing? Photos to follow. Be Safe,

 

[Rastoff]

Last post. I came here for help and get nothing but ridicule.

I just read through this entire thread again. I didn't see any quest for help. I didn't even see a single question from you, only vitriol towards S&W.

Now, I didn't ridicule anyone. I did ask a few questions. You answered a couple of them and I thank you for that.

I would still like to see pics of the gun. That is, assuming you ever come back.

The slide is connected to the frame with the take down lever,...

Not exactly. The frame is connected to the slide through the frame rails. The take down lever only prevents the barrel from moving forward off the frame. It's the lock up between the barrel and the frame that keeps the slide on the frame.

 

[Arik]

20 year old with a handgun? Unsupervised by the owner of said gun?

I'm guessing the whole slide flying and hitting a person is probably a piece or chunk. I don't see how a whole slide sill just fly off. Especially to the side. In front is the target, behind is the shooter

 

[Bkreutz]

Not exactly. The frame is connected to the slide through the frame rails. The take down lever only prevents the barrel from moving forward off the frame. It's the lock up between the barrel and the frame that keeps the slide on the frame.

I've been thinking of how the slide could come off the back of the frame, and thought I'd run this by you. I don't see any possible way for the slide to come off the frame to the rear if the pistol is assembled correctly. What do you think would happen if the pistol was reassembled without the recoil spring assembly and a round got chambered and fired? Do you think it would be possible for the barrel lug to miss the frame lug? I don't see it happening. I thought about the barrel lug breaking but in that case the RSA would keep the slide from flying off the rear of the frame. I realize it would be difficult to reassemble a M&P without the RSA but I've seen a M16 bolt put in backwards which I would have sworn wasn't possible. I drew the short straw on Armory check in when senior NCO's (E-8's and up) had to do their yearly "familiarizations". And that's how one got turned in. He must have hammered the bolt in with a rock, we couldn't get it out and ended up scrapping the upper.

 

[vipermd]

Sigma 40F bang

Enclosed you will see the photos of a Sigma 40F that had partial blowout of the web, ( first 2 fired brass, loaded round, last to had neck blowout in Sigma, and did the damage that was seen on the gun, blew out the mag, broke the base plate. Stung my hand a little, did not tear my leather gloves. The last 2 casings are same ammo fired nearly simultaneously, blew the mag out of an MP full on second shot along with complete head separation. You can see small blowout on first casing. There was no damage to the M&P. The rest of the ammo was put aside,. I was a known reload from a main stream reloader. These were an extra 35-40 rd with 180 gr bullets, my main order was 4K 165 gr bullets. Many of the 180's were opened and powder weight was fine. The brass had been cleaned by a company no longer in business, apparently they were using a chemical that weakened the brass. I was unable to find out what exact chemical it was. S**t happens, it was taken care of, the 4K were reloaded into new brass at no cost. So head separation, 2 successive rounds, no damage to the M&P, mag blow out. The sigma had 6K+ I can document, factory 135 corbons, mild paper loads and everything in between. My conclusion is the Sigma is a good strong platform, and I believe the M&P to be better. OP: Get S&W to work with you, to get a replacement gun from Win. Then sell it. I have a "few" S&W's, but everybody makes mistakes. Your initial presentation just had to many red flags- I should put my phone # here so people could call me, rant, feel better, than we can solve the problem. Good Luck. Be Safe,

 

[McE]

Can't help people who are unwilling to help themselves.
Anyone who prefers to accept a $750 loss and rage on the internet about it instead of following the tons of sensible advice given, all while proclaiming no help was given, is a troll, regardless of whether this story happened or not.

If OP's mission was to slander S&W, a picture would be infinitely more effective than a sobstory.

 

[MichiganScott]

Can't help people who are unwilling to help themselves.
Anyone who prefers to accept a $750 loss and rage on the internet about it instead of following the tons of sensible advice given, all while proclaiming no help was given, is a troll, regardless of whether this story happened or not.

If OP's mission was to slander S&W, a picture would be infinitely more effective than a sobstory. Or is it SOBstory.

Gotta admit it's both original and refreshing for the troll to plan on buying a Kimber instead of the usual Glock.

 

[hardluk1]

So many things so wrong right from the start with never any mention for HELP from the OP to the highest price anyone has ever paid for a m&p ,even for pro series and not a single photo taken . Trolling could be suspect . Good luck getting a friendlier response on the other s&w forum.

Owner was not there so what really happened is an unknown to him . Good luck with a better response on the other s&w forum .

I have read some interesting fox news comments too !!

 

[WarDamnSW]

Enjoy that 500 round Kimber break-in period. Probably the worst 1911 I've owned was a Kimber.

 

[alleycat7002]

Please go get your Kimber and go....Smith and Wesson makes a fine...gun..Kimber is a over glorified 1911....I had a rock island just as good it took same parts

 

[Bob O]

Enjoy that 500 round Kimber break-in period. Probably the worst 1911 I've owned was a Kimber.

When I was shopping for a 1911, I was advised to steer clear of Kimber. My Sig has been flawless after 750 rounds.....no break-in required, as it should be.

 

[WarDamnSW]

When I was shopping for a 1911, I was advised to steer clear of Kimber. My Sig has been flawless after 750 rounds.....no break-in required, as it should be.

Yep. I bought a Remington R1 Enhanced and it's been flawless out of the box. Probably my favorite right now. I also have a Rock Island, and it's performed better than any Kimber I owned. OWNED being the key word.

 

[Bob O]

I think the beauty of a Kimber is what attracts people to it.....but everything I've read and heard about them was negative.

 

[Donn]

How old is your grandson (and his buddy)? If my son came to me and told me that the first thing I would ask would be "Did that happen after you jammed the muzzle into the mud screwing around with it." Not saying that's what happened, but if I didn't see it myself, I'd be suspicious. I'm a questioning type. Not trying to accuse your grandson, it's just that I was a Boy Scout leader for 20 years and ........I've seen just about everything that a young man can think up.

I was thinking much the same thing. I love my kids and grandkids, but my guns don't go anywhere without me. Take offense if you want, but you don't know what happened other than "The gun blew up." The gun might've indeed been a piece of dreck, but there's a laundry list of unanswered questions here IMHO.

 

[Culina]

Well, the only help I can offer would be to advise you to get on the phone with S&W on Tuesday and demand that they send you back all the "evidence" its your property and they have no right to hold it. Its not like there is any risk of someone getting hurt by it again plus you will need it for any further litigation. See what they say about that, if the first person that you talk to doesn't give it up, escalate it until you get someone who will.

 

[walkin' trails]

What I see overlooked is not sending the pistol back for warranty repair early in when , after cleaning and lube failed to help the break-in process. I have an M&P 9c that went back twice before coming back right. Letting a local gunsmith tinker with it instead of the factory doesn't help the warranty claim. I would not be surprised that the ammo mfg overpressured a round, but that's not S&W's problem. I think they would have to make the gun available to the ammo company for resolution. Bottom line, IF YOUR BRAND NEW GUN DOESN'T FUNCTION AFTER A REASONABLE BREAK-IN PROCESS, SEND IT BACK TO THE FACTORY AND LET THEM DOCUMENT AND DEAL WITH IT BEFORE BAD THINGS HAPPEN!

 

[Muss Muggins]

Last post. I came here for help and get nothing but ridicule. He brought me the parts, the ammo,and the busted magazine. Yes, the pneumonia was cultured and proven. It was Winchester USA ammo. Yes, the mice and rats have done it before at the lease. For those of you who are not familiar, in Texas we have private land which we lease for hunting. Therefore there are no unwanted people around, just unwanted critters. I really don't care what any of you think and this will be the last you hear from me. I came for help and as I can read no one is interested in helping. I stated about 4 times what kind of ammo it was and what happened. If you choose not to believe me, then the fact that you call me, my grandson, and a United States marine all liars then that in itself makes the case for me to never visit again. No use in answering this as I won't be back to listen to this dribble. I hope if any of you have a problem that you are sincere about that whomever you go to for advice gives a **** about you and your situation. back to Kimber where I am welcome.

Kimber has been through several evolutions of quality since its inception, from really good to really poor to just sort of average, and back again. The one thing you can say about the M&P series is that the firearms have been consistently serviceable, with only minor problems, and most of those I am convinced were user error. If you can divine which era Kimber you are getting, you are probably better off, but unless you're an expert, which I don't see in your posts, then you've got a 10 - 15% chance of getting a good one. It's okay to like other brands, but it's not okay to make ad hominem dismissals of others when you weren't there . . . Stay safe.

 

[Rastoff]

What do you think would happen if the pistol was reassembled without the recoil spring assembly and a round got chambered and fired?

It does take a little finagling, but an M&P can be reassembled without the RSA. However, it won't work like that.

Without the RSA, the striker will push the slide back out of battery once it engages the sear. So, in order to fire the gun, the slide would have to be held forward. Anyone would notice something wrong. Firing the gun in this condition would require a "dare" type scenario and only those from "*******" would attempt something like that. I wouldn't put that past a couple of 20 year olds.

Even if it were fired in this condition, the slide would not come off. Look at this pic:

I made this pic to show the slide contact points. Ignore the green arrow for now.

As the red arrows indicate, there are 4 points of direct contact between the frame (actually the trigger block and sear block which are inserted into the frame and held in by pins through a steel sub-frame) and slide. These contact points are steel.

As the slide travels rearward, this part (red arrow), sometimes called a dust cover, will contact the frame which halts rearward movement. Because of the geometry of the slide dust cover to frame contact, there is almost no upward force; the force is straight back.

Also, as the slide moves backward, the barrel tilts down and the barrel lug engages the slot in the trigger block. Should the dust cover break, the barrel would still hold the slide in place due to the barrel lug.

For the slide to come off the gun:

• It will have to overcome the inertia of the RSA.
• All four of the steel slide rail contact points would have to fail.
• The dust cover would have to break off or the frame fail at that contact point.
• The slide would have to break where the barrel muzzle protrudes through the slide.
• The barrel lug or trigger block (or both) would have to fail.

All of these things would have to fail for the slide to come off. Then, even if all this did fail, all these parts breaking would absorb most of the momentum of the slide. There wouldn't be enough energy left for the slide to "fly" anywhere. It would most likely just tumble off to the side and land on the ground.

A more likely story would be an over pressure round caused a piece of plastic or brass to hit the kid in the forehead. Even more likely is the kids were goofing around and accidentally hit themselves with the gun. Of course we all know that grand parents all have perfect grand children who never lie and are all model citizens.

 

[Rastoff]

One more thing about the price...

Most here have given a lot of grief over the $750 price tag. It is not the most expensive M&P. I just saw a used M&P .40S&W for sale for $1,200 and he'll get that price. Why? Because they are rare in CA and you can't get a new one here.

So, just because someone pays a lot for a gun doesn't mean they didn't have to.

Also, I find the $531 for another gun a strange price. In the past, S&W has always offered to sell the affected party a new gun for around $350. I wonder if the numbers got transposed?