M&P 9 Shield Slide Stop Difficult

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Come on SoCalDep, use common sense please.

Well...It says this:

"Pull the slide to the rear and release it, allowing it to carry fully forward."

Does that not tell you to use the sling shot method? How does that help your case any? You just proved yourself wrong.
 
"Pull the slide to the rear and release it, allowing it to carry fully forward."

Does that not tell you to use the sling shot method? How does that help your case any? You just proved yourself wrong.
It does say that this is the recommended method. However, it doesn't say that using the slide stop to release the slide is wrong.
 
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Last time I got involved in the Slide Stop/Slide Release debate I got reprimanded by the moderators.

So all I'm going to say on the subject is if it is your gun do whatever you want. If you ever get the opportunity to shoot my guns please pull back on the slide and release it to chamber a round.

There, I hope that was polite enough.
 
You're conjuring and making absolutely no sense whats so ever.

I'm making perfect sense. Because one doesn't understand or can't comprehend something doesn't mean it doesn't make sense...

This is the Shield Slide Stop that is so small that ones thumb will cover the entire area when placed on it. Thumb will cover the entire part, so why in Gods name (using common sense) would S&W only put serrations on half the part? Common sense man. Stop reaching simple because you need to be right.

Let's look:

Pushing up on the slide stop:




Pushing down on the slide stop:




Come on SoCalDep, use common sense please.



"Pull the slide to the rear and release it, allowing it to carry fully forward."

Does that not tell you to use the sling shot method? How does that help your case any? You just proved yourself wrong.

I might have proved myself wrong except you ignored my previous posts as well as the second picture which is of the next page in the manual where it talks about releasing the slide from the slide stop...The manual is full of red warnings stating things one shouldn't do and funny enough, releasing the slide with the slide stop/release ISN'T one of them.

You accuse me of failing to use common sense but fail to recognize an established technique used, supported, and recommended by some of the most experienced cops, people-hunters, competitors, and trainers in the industry, which is in no way prohibited in the manual and in fact used by sponsored Team S&W shooters.

Not to mention the fact not one individual on this forum could point to an incidence of the slide stop "wearing out" yet I have documentation of two Shields firing over 15,000 rounds each using the slide stop/release with no problems, breakage, or excessive wear.

I'm not stretching...I'm breaking your paradigm...and it makes you uncomfortable...I've admitted being wrong on one fact already...Maybe some maturity and ability to self evaluate would help you better analyze the issue.
 
But which method works best and more reliably?

I think it very much depends on several factors. This is why we teach both methods and let the students choose which fits them the best.

For example... Someone who does a lot of shooting with a Sig and carries a Shield as a CCW might prefer to rack the slide as opposed to use the slide stop/release because the two gun's slide stop/release is in different locations. The same is true for many others who use multiple different handguns where the mode of operation is different. With most guns, racking the slide works regardless of type.

Many left-handers choose to rack the slide because only a few modern handguns have been designed with ambidextrous use in mind and many slide-stops (especially Sigs) are difficult to operate left-handed.

Competition shooters are generally concerned with maximum speed and efficiency, and for pure speed and efficiency (barring left-handers with non-ambi pistols, etc.) the slide stop/release will likely be faster and more efficient with appropriate training and technique.

If one is using a similar platform (M&P/M&PC/Shield, etc.) using the slide stop will likely increase speed at minimal sacrifice to reliability.

I have seen many people "miss" the slide (racking) during a reload...this requires them to re-acquire a grasp on the slide and re-rack. I have seen people "miss" the slide-stop/release, but there is significantly less movement involved in re-acquiring the lever and making it work. In either case, delay is somewhat minimal, because the biggest delays I've noted in reloads come from accessing, indexing, and inserting magazines...and failing to remember to send the slide forward (rack or release) at all. There is probably slightly more "reliability" in racking the slide, but I feel it's overblown and overshadowed by the weapon-platform-consistency argument. I personally feel that the increased index afforded by the strong hand already gripping the gun or the support hand moving to a traditional grip provides very positive actuation of the lever and thus I prefer it.

I have been trained in both methods by some of the best instructors in the world...I use both depending on the circumstance, but very much prefer using the slide stop/release. This has much to do with ingrained training, but it is also faster and more efficient if done correctly and with a platform which is familiar (or consistent with the familiar) to the shooter.

Overall it's such a minimal difference that I wouldn't push a student (other than a competitions shooter) either way...there are much bigger fish to fry. The whole hubbub above stems from my somewhat OCD pet peeve of people stating absolutes at inappropriate times and with a lack of experience and knowledge. The use of defensive firearms (and the Shield was designed for that purpose) is a life-or-death issue. For such matters, having people on-line with little to no experience and minimal knowledge passing opinion, rumor, and misinterpretation of information as proper technique, let alone the "only" proper technique is simply irresponsible.

As I said before...You wouldn't read a manual to learn to drive a car and I strongly recommend seeking out a competent instructor to learn self defense techniques. If you wish to increase your knowledge beyond the basics, seek out several instructors to the point you can contrast teaching styles, techniques, and methods, applying what works best for your lifestyle and circumstance. There are so many variables involved from clothing, weapon type, environment, attitude, mindset, physical ability or disability, strength, and even so much as height and weight, that no one "size" fits all when it comes to training and technique.
 
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Many left-handers choose to rack the slide because only a few modern handguns have been designed with ambidextrous use in mind and many slide-stops (especially Sigs) are difficult to operate left-handed.
That... is why I train with racking the slide. I do not want to have to remember which pistol I have and whether it has an easy-to-operate slide release or not.

Competitive shooting where milliseconds count... sure. Do I prefer a pistol with a great slide release? Absolutely. However, the reality is that not every pistol I carry has it, so the last thing I want to do is train a routine into muscle memory I cannot execute on every pistol I might have to rely on to save my life.
 
While I agree there the harm from using the slide lock as a release is negligible and you probably shouldn't worry about using it as such, there are some serious logical problems with the arguments given for why or why not you should do it.

The manual doesn't explicitly say don't do it, but that doesn't imply that you should do it either. The manual also doesn't say not to put your gun in the microwave but you don't do that... the absence of a prohibition in the manual does not imply that it is okay. However, it goes both ways, the method described in the manual does not utilize the slide stop as a release, but it doesn't mean it will harm it to do so. Second, just because 'experts' use the release, it doesn't imply that it is okay either. In a combat / competition scenario, which most of the posted videos are about (or by SD or competition shooters), even if it did 100% of the time cause damage to the part, I expect they would still do it since it is a cheap part and the increased reload speed is a worthy trade off. Third, having serrations implies that it is meant to be manipulated but since there are other times to push down the slide lock other than reloading, it doesn't mean that the serrations are there to allow you to use the release to reload. Maybe a poor analogy, but its like computer programming. There are certain things you can do in your code like using the map function in an anonymous context, that aren't recommended but there's nothing stopping you from doing it and really no reason not to, other than it's 'bad style'.

However, I do have a hard time a priori reasoning why it would be damaging to anything but the slide lock from excessive use. The whole "it slams up against something = bad" argument I have a hard time with, the gun does that same action numerous times, every time you fire it does it and every time you reload the manual's way. So the only thing I would think is that using the slide lock as a release for reloading would mean it gets used more often than it was designed for. Everywhere though does say to only do this when loading a round, so there is probably a good reason to do so.

I really think you can sum it up this way: 1) the manual describes the procedure for reloading the weapon and the slide release is not used. 2) since the manual doesn't mention it, we can assume that S&W does not recommend reloading the firearm in this way. 3) Since it is not recommended, by doing so you do risk damaging the firearm, and although there is ample anecdotal evidence to suggest it is okay "your mileage may vary". So do it if you want, I doubt it will hurt it, I do it on my guns with one exception that may be unique to the weapon (apparently it damages the extractor from anecdotal reports and since they are impossible to find, I'm not going to risk it) there's really not much more to it than that.
 
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I think it very much depends on several factors. This is why we teach both methods and let the students choose which fits them the best.

Given the fact we are talking about the Shield, I will go with what works most effectively and reliably for the Shield. I pull back the slide and slingshot it as per the recommendation in the manual. I have seen too many threads related to the Shield not going into battery which end with, "I use the slide "release," or others that start with, "Why is the slide 'release" so hard to operate?"

Oh, and I read car manuals too since each car is different.

Whichever you do, train the way you are going to use the gun and be sure it works every time. If you feel the need to post a thread asking why your slide "release" is so hard to operate and people point out there is a better way for that particular gun, then you fail to try it then, it is your problem, carry on.
 
Given the fact we are talking about the Shield, I will go with what works most effectively and reliably for the Shield. I pull back the slide and slingshot it as per the recommendation in the manual. I have seen too many threads related to the Shield not going into battery which end with, "I use the slide "release," or others that start with, "Why is the slide 'release" so hard to operate?"

Oh, and I read car manuals too since each car is different.

Whichever you do, train the way you are going to use the gun and be sure it works every time. If you feel the need to post a thread asking why your slide "release" is so hard to operate and people point out there is a better way for that particular gun, then you fail to try it then, it is your problem, carry on.

Exactly and I'm not even sure why we're debating other firearms when the OP's post is about the Shield.

Someone mentioned and others have applied similar logic that "the manual doesn't say it's wrong, so it must be right." Well using the slide release to release the slide is common practice with guns. The Shield's manual specially recommends one common method to release the slide (slingshot) , and, I have to assume, purposely neglects to recommend the other (Slide Stop). Leads me to believe that the latter is not an officially recommended method even though it may not harm the firearm or cause a threat to the person shooting it... I have to assume that there is a reason why S&W mentioned one method and not the other.
 
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Exactly and I'm not even sure why we're debating other firearms when the OP's post is about the Shield.

Someone mentioned and others have applied similar logic that "the manual doesn't say it's wrong, so it must be right." Well using the slide release to release the slide is common practice with guns. The Shield's manual specially recommends one common method to release the slide (slingshot) , and, I have to assume, purposely neglects to recommend the other (Slide Stop). Leads me to believe that the latter is not an officially recommended method even though it may not harm the firearm or cause a threat to the person shooting it... I have to assume that there is a reason why S&W mentioned one method and not the other.

The problem is not whether a technique is "right" but whether it is appropriate for a given situation... and while I do think the majority of your post is well thought out, I think that S&W mentioning one method in a basic firearms manual over another may have more to do with what they think will be less likely to get them sued by retards over which is a better (or simply equally good) way. I'm not saying that only applies to S&W... The majority of gun manufacturers do the exact same thing. They'll all say their guns shouldn't shoot +P+ ammo but often gladly submit their firearms for testing by agencies that solely issue such ammunition. No firearms manufacturer is going to go to lengths necessary to publish every established technique, nor should they, as those who wish to train will seek instruction from those who have the expertise, experience, and knowledge (one would hope) to provide appropriate instruction on proper usage. Those who don't get basic "don't shoot your eye out" lawyer-based instructions from the manual.

Yes, I'll give you that the manual, in stating how to load the pistol instructs the user to pull back and release the slide to chamber a round. While I would contend the manual also gives a small (though truly debatable as to using the slide release or simply pulling the slide to "release") nod to the use of the stop as a release, the fact remains that the primary technique advocated in the manual is to pull back the slide. The manual also states that the firearm should never be stored loaded. NEVER. That would be kinda tough for a home-defense firearm.

As I mentioned before, I've heard some ridiculous statements from representatives of many companies, and S&W is not immune. I've heard that the slide auto-forward is a "feature" requested by some high-speed, low drag military unit. I've heard the sights should be lined up using the dots as opposed to the traditional established sighting method (and they can't even keep that consistent). Based on that I'll go with what I know based on my experience with thousands of M&Ps in the hands of my students, tens of thousands of handguns in general, hundreds of thousands of rounds, countless hours of training and in training others, and in personally verifying the durability, efficacy, and efficiency of particular techniques. If a particular firearm doesn't meet my standards, I won't use it. The M&P and the Shield variant, while not perfect, have not only met, but exceeded my standards and expectations, which is why I use them. That said, I'm not going to drink the kool-aid that everything coming from S&W, particularly in the "don't-sue-me" driven manual, is correct.
 
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The problem is not whether a technique is "right" but whether it is appropriate for a given situation... and while I do think the majority of your post is well thought out, I think that S&W mentioning one method in a basic firearms manual over another may have more to do with what they think will be less likely to get them sued by retards over which is a better

Or that it works better on this particular gun, as evidenced by all the threads complaining about how hard the "slide release" is to operate, or that it failed to go into battery when using the "slide release."
 
They'll all say their guns shouldn't shoot +P+ ammo...
Not all. The manual for all H&K handguns states that +P+ ammo in the proper caliber is perfectly fine in their guns. :p (Sorry, couldn't resist)


I think the reason S&W suggests the slingshot method is to reduce the possibility of getting a finger caught while letting the slide drop.
 
Not all. The manual for all H&K handguns states that +P+ ammo in the proper caliber is perfectly fine in their guns. :p (Sorry, couldn't resist)

True...The recoil spring assembly in the USP45 is rated for some ridiculous number of rounds, and I've heard rumor that some major cartridge manufacturing company has been using a USP45 to test their ammo for many years and it has an almost unbelievable number of rounds (200,000K+ comes to mind but I could be completely wrong).
 
OK...I'm done. I'm obviously not going to convince some people, and they are definitely not going to convince me...I think the videos I've posted, the arguments I've made, and the statements I've made speak for themselves. I stand by everything I've said in this thread but I feel any further posts or responses will simply result in more argument and no progress.

I think Rastoff made a great point and I will admit to being quite frustrated. I'm going to end it here because I feel that the entirety of my posts on this thread fully explain my position and reasons why I would use one or the other method, why I feel both are justified in certain situations and with certain people, and why I've come to those opinions.

There's nothing more I can add to this discussion and I'm sure my continued participation will do nothing but foster arguments.
 
OK...I'm done. I'm obviously not going to convince some people, and they are definitely not going to convince me...I think the videos I've posted, the arguments I've made, and the statements I've made speak for themselves. I stand by everything I've said in this thread but I feel any further posts or responses will simply result in more argument and no progress.

I think Rastoff made a great point and I will admit to being quite frustrated. I'm going to end it here because I feel that the entirety of my posts on this thread fully explain my position and reasons why I would use one or the other method, why I feel both are justified in certain situations and with certain people, and why I've come to those opinions.

There's nothing more I can add to this discussion and I'm sure my continued participation will do nothing but foster arguments.

FWIW brother I agree with you :D
 
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