M&P 9mm ejection issue...again.

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mmjsport

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Well I bought my M&P 9mm FS in January new. (Which I love) The gun's accuracy was terrible and the casings were ejecting at my face every time. So I called and sent it in. Took almost 3 weeks to get it back. They replaced the barrel and range tested it. The repair sheet said nothing about fixing the extraction issue. I was able to shoot it for the first time again yesterday and the accuracy has improved GREATLY! It's on par with my other weapons. But the casings are still ejecting at their 6 o'clock. They are still hitting me. But instead of hitting my face, they are hitting my right shoulder. And only 7 or 8 out of 10 will eject poorly while the others eject without issue. Anybody else have this issue after they sent it back to get repaired? I called and they said to send it back again. :( At this point, they will have had the gun longer than I have. I asked if they could send me the extractor/ejector and they said they could but I would lose warranty if they don't repair it. :confused:
 
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Hello,
This is my first post/reply so I hope I get it done correctly. I am currently experiencing the same issue with my FS M&P 9mm. Offline, I am putting together a rough draft to post when it is completed in another day or two. It will contain as much detail as I can remember and some links to other sources of info I have found in my research. Too bad that this does not seem like new isolated issue. I found a post on this issue back from 2009.

Hope for the best...
 
In my M&P pistol armorer recert we were told the engineers were still working on tweaking the 9's for improved accuracy. Remember the M&P was designed from the start as a .40, and then it was "down-sized" to the 9mm (followed by .357 and then .45 ACP).

Extraction/ejection issues can be muddled by the typical influences many shooters of plastic pistols seem to experience, meaning a less-than-ideal grip stability/technique and low-powered ammo.

I haven't heard that they've been revising the recoil spring rates (although I haven't asked, either), but they have made some revisions to the extractor (same one used in all models/calibers).

Last I heard, the extractor was revised to give it a bit more negative rake, and the point was sharpened. I was told this was intended to optimize performance, especially if someone was using "hotter" ammo in a couple of the calibers. I think I recall being told that this was about the time LASD experienced some extraction issues in a few academy guns, which resulted in S&W determining there had been a small number of their MIM extractors in those guns that had apparently been "over-molded" (vendor part). This was quickly addressed (and LASD was apparently pleased with the newer guns).

The last few newer M&P 9's I've handled and tried (a couple VTAC's & 9c's) exhibited fine accuracy, with what I'd consider to be 'normal' extraction/ejection patterns using our duty 124gr +P loads.

While the company apparently expected the M&P 40 to be the dominant choice for LE/Gov buyers, the M&P 9 has been in demand, too, so I doubt they'll stop tweaking them until they run every bit as well as the ones chambered in the other calibers.
 
Hello,

Well, so much for a quick addition to my previous post with my ejection issue on the M&P 9mm FS. I am now about to send the misbehaver back for the 3rd time in hopes of correcting the ejection issue. I will attempt to describe what I've learned so far since my last post...

While researching my specific problem with my S&W M&P FS 9mm, I came across several posts on the same subject starting as far back as 2009. http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/70636-m-p-ejection-issue.html .
And posts continue to more recent times. http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/306106-m-p-9mm-ejection-issue-again.html .

The details all seem similar to my issue with erratic, inconsistent ejection of the spent casing. I also remember seeing a statement in a post mentioning another issue of the slide lock releasing and loading upon the insertion of a new full magazine. I initially experienced the slide lock release condition when I first rented an S&W M&P FS 9mm at a local range before purchasing mine. I brought this to the attention of an employee who said the firearm was probably just in need of a cleaning. I now suspect that may not be the cause of the issue as I know my firearm was not in need of a cleaning when it occurred.
Is it unreasonable to hope that an issue reported as far back as 2009 would have been resolved by now?

I contacted S&W and sent the firearm in for repair. After a return from repair, I called to inquire as to what work was performed. I was told that smoothing the feed ramp, replacement of the ejector and an adjustment of the slide stop was performed as well as range testing. I am still experiencing very inconsistent performance during ejection. The inconsistency shows up as ejections in the range of approximately between 3PM (to my right as expected) to about 11AM (over my left shoulder). Some of the more frequent ejections have landed on the top of my head to hitting me in directly in the face and glasses. I am using stock M&P 10 round magazines and have fired 50 rds of PPU 115 gr. FMJ, 275 rds of Remington 115 gr. Metal Case all with similar results of erratic, inconsistent ejections.

Upon receiving the M&P 9 after its 2nd repair attempt for the same issue, I checked the returned notes of the repair. It stated both the barrel and slide had been replaced and range tested. As much as I would love to say the issue has finally been resolved, it has not. When I returned home from my range testing session, I called Customer Service and I expressed my concerns and disappointment on the recurring issue. Our conversation covered a couple of topics.

1) What type of ammunition was being used? As stated in the previous repair letter and copied from above with updates from my last range session:
I am using stock M&P 10 round magazines and have fired 50 rds of PPU 115 gr. FMJ and 350 rds of Remington 115 gr. Metal Case and 50 rds. of Federal American Eagle 115 gr. all with similar results of erratic, inconsistence ejections.
The S&W representative stated the firearm was designed to be used with 124 gr.(?) ammunition and may not function properly when using other variations in the specific caliber. I checked my owners' manual and the closest statement I can find regarding suggesting ammunition to be used is on pg.10.

Excerpt from pg. 10 of Smith&Wesson M&P Safety and Instruction Manual for M&P Pistols

Different combinations of bullet velocity, bullet weight and firearm
weight can have major impact on felt recoil; high felt recoil can
be uncomfortable to some shooters.
For example:
• Firearm Weight: lower firearm weight increases felt recoil.
• Bullet Weight: higher bullet weight increases felt recoil.
• Bullet Velocity: higher bullet velocity increases felt recoil.
To acclimate yourself to higher levels of felt recoil, consider
the following:
• Use a firm two-hand hold on the grip when firing.
• Always start your shooting experience with the lowest bullet
velocity and lowest bullet weight available for your firearm.
• Ask your firearm dealer to suggest the lowest power,
lowest velocity, lightest bullet weight for your firearm.

This would suggest to me that I should expect consistent, dependable and safe results from different variations of the correct caliber. I am also concerned that I had not previously been informed of the need for a specific type of ammunition as I had stated clearly the specific ammunition I had been using in the previous attempt at repair.

2) As well as continuing erratic ejections, I still, periodically, and now after the 2nd repair, more frequently, experience having a locked open slide close and load with the insertion of a new full magazine without so much as light tap with the heel of my palm to verify proper seating of the magazine. To me this seems like another questionable condition of concern.
Is this correctable or considered acceptable or normal operation? The representative stated this action is considered normal operation. If it is normal, why does it not happen every time? I checked the owners' manual and found this warning:

WARNING: DO NOT USE EXCESSIVE UPWARD FORCE
WHEN INSERTING A LOADED MAGAZINE INTO THE
PISTOL. EXCESSIVE UPWARD FORCE COULD CAUSE
THE SLIDE TO MOVE FORWARD, CHAMBERING A ROUND AND
MAKING THE PISTOL READY TO FIRE.

The fact that there is a warning in the owners' manual, does not support this action being considered normal operation. This issue was not addressed or commented on in the previous 2 attempts of repair.

I have spoken with friends, range officers, gun shop owners and gunsmiths and all say "Don't worry, give S&W the chance to take care of it. They won't let you down…twice." And now it is going back for the 3rd time for the same issue.

My apologies for the lengthy post, but I wanted to cover as much detail as I could. I must say the folks on the phone have been more than kind and tolerant of my expression of my dissatisfaction. At this point I am stuck waiting for something good to happen.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I certainly did not expect anything like this from an organization with the reputation of S&W.

Thanks for "listening"
Take care,
Mark
 
The slide being released upon vigorous insertion of the magazine is something that can happen with a number of the plastic pistols that use low profile slide stop lever engagement tabs. It's usually more shooter-related than specific gun related.

Bear in mind that you don't have to slam the magazine into the grip when the slide is locked open, although more force will be needed when seating fully loaded magazines in guns when the slide is forward in-battery. Nature of how it works in 2 different situations & conditions. It can become more second nature as further training & proper practice have occurred over time. ;)

Barring any actual mechanical problem, erratic ejection patterns often have more to do with shooter grip and ammunition power than most folks might suspect.

S&W (like other big companies that build for LE/Gov sales) typically use a range of the major American ammunition company offerings for their R&D and ongoing testing.

Standard pressure 9mm 115gr loads are sort of at that bottom of the normal operating power ranges, and when you get into "low cost" or "bargain" 115gr FMJ loads, and off-shore offerings, you can run the risk of the loads developing power levels at the bottom things, which means less slide velocity. Less slide velocity can mean less slide travel, as well. Neither of these conditions are necessarily good things when it comes to brisk extraction & ejection.

Now, factor in any minor "less-than-optimal" shooting grip technique (not firm and/or an unlocked wrist) AND a stiff recoil spring, and things can get ... interesting.

The most common 9mm bullet weight for LE use is sort of a toss-up between 124gr & 147gr in the US. Sorry, but that's the way things have gone, and the gun companies would be silly not to take it into consideration when developing spring rates for their designs.

You don't see much 115gr duty loads used much anymore except for some remaining agency users of the older 115gr +P+, which develop rather brisk slide velocities & cycling, usually at the expense of faster & more wear & tear on the gun & shooter. Some ammo companies made LE/Gov agencies sign waivers when selling them 115gr +P+ loads, and some guns might not be warranted for its use.

If you want to eliminate the shooter variable, you have to make sure you really do so. I've handled guns which the owners/users swore had problems, but which functioned just fine in my hands, using the same ammo.

One of the first things recommended to armorers when it comes to possible ammo issues is to try different ammo. Like it or not, not all guns are going to react the same to all the different brands and loadings of ammo.

If it were me, I'd step up from using any of the budget American loads, and any foreign offerings (other than 124gr NATO loads made for use by NATO member countries), and try some major American brand 124gr or 147gr loads. if the gun runs fine with them ... that's a clue.

You might try some +P, as well.

While there are some +P+ loads made for LE/Gov users, remember that not all +P+ is necessarily going to be the same, since there isn't an upper limit offered as an official specification. +P+ pretty much means it'd loaded to higher pressure than SAAMI spec 9mm +P loads.

Don't think that it's just the M&P 9 that's causing some frustration when owners of plastic pistols are using some of the budget 115gr loads, BTW. ;)

If you know an experienced shooter of plastic pistols (range instructor?) who could try your gun, with good quality 124gr or 147gr loads (or even some 115gr or 124gr +P premium loads), it might help narrow what's happening with your gun, in your hands.

Let S&W try again to correct whatever may be wrong with the actual gun, but be prepared to look at the shooter and ammo influences being involved to a greater degree than you might suspect.

The first thing I thought about when I read what you were using for ammo ... was the ammo. ;) Maybe not totally, but potentially to some degree.
 
The FTE issues cleared up on my FS M&P9 after I quit using russian ammo and burned 350 rounds through it. It was a new gun and it seems it needed more break in than I expected.

Now it runs as reliably as my M&P45.

My 9c never had an ejection issue whatsoever, running russian ammo or anything else new out of the box.

As someone pointed out, it might be a gripping issue, though damned if I would know where to differentiate the three guns.
 
Sorry to hear about the issues some are having with their M&P 9mm. I think from my layperson perspective that any mass produced product will have some issues in a certain percentage of the products and it SUCKS when you are the one that buys one of the problem products.

I have been incredibly happy with my M&P 9mm and use it for competition, literally thousands of rounds with very few issues, most user error. So I think once things get straightened out, you'll find they are a dependable gun.

SW has always been very responsive with their customer service, for me. So I hope you experience the same!!

Best wishes,
 
Wow. Just came across this thread and I am dumbfounded to discover that erratic ejection also happened on M&P9. I just bought a full size 9mm and am going to find out in 10 day. I will report back with my assessment.

First post/reply. Please go easy on this new guy :)

tbc
 
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Dang! I'm going to have to learn to look through that whole site before I order. I just put in an order last week, now I may have to pay another shipping charge.:rolleyes:
 
Sometimes less is more when explaining a issue.. Simply tell them that the ejected cases are hitting your head and right shoulder and hot cases are getting caught in between you glasses and in your shirt.

S&W will then make sure that the ejector is detailed right and that the extractor is working as it should!! George
 
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I'm new to shooting, and just got an M&P9 FS. First trip to the range, first mag and it was ejecting some back towards my face and hitting my hat.

My nephew, an experienced shooter, used it without issue, as did another friend.

My wife shot it and it rained brass on her. She has small hands and is still working on her grip.

I shot it ok a second time, so did my nephew. My wife shot it a second time and had the same problem.

Put a few rounds of 147 in it, and it worked perfectly for my wife. We had been shooting 115.

So this seems to support some of the earlier posts about bullet weight, hope this helps.
 
It seems like it is my turn to make a change in the experiment and I have secured 150 rds. of 124 gr. to try. 100 rds. of ARMSCOR and 50 of Federal American Eagle. I wish I could have found some heavier ammo to try to see what the differences might be, but at least I can make a change before putting more doubt on the M&P.

Thanks for all the insight to the issue. I hope for better results this Sunday at the range.

Take care,
Mark
 
The results of the Sunday test at the range showed a definite improvement to the point were I would have to say issue resolved.

Two things, I believe, contributed to the improved performance. Besides securing 150 rds of 124gr ammo, two days prior to testing I also locked the slide open. The improvement in performance for both my wife and myself were immediately noticable. The next step will be to see how the 115 gr ammo I have will perform on my next test.

Thanks to folks who contributed both on the forum, LGS's and elsewhere for their experienced advice. Not everything we learn is written in manuals and it seems, once again, that experience is the best teacher.
 
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Seems like the older all steel model guns didn't have the same issue. Weak wristing didn't seem to hurt function.. I shot a full house load in a Colt officers model one handed without issues as well as light target woodcutters.. Only load I would have to have a firm grip on was shot capsule loads in .45 as well as my .22's to get them to function. But they did! Just never seemed to have them issues with the heavier guns. any loads seemed to work and function the guns.. What say you older folks? George
 
At a time when any kind of 9mm ammo can be difficult to find. It seems strange that S&W is producing a 9mm pistol that is so ammunition sensitive. I had a M&P9FS for about six months. It had terrible accuracy, S&W replaced the barrel and accuracy improved greatly. It's trigger pull could only be described as awful, and it liked to throw ejected cases in my face. After six months of messing with it, I sold the thing and went back to my two Glock 19s and Glock 34. None of these pistols have the vices of the M&P9. They eject to 3 or 4 oclock with most any ammo. The triggers are good and accuracy is adequate out of the box. Nor, did I need to spend extra money buying from Apex what S&W could provide from the factory, but doesn't.


S&W revolvers have been and still are second to none. When It comes to plastic pistols, it seems they have a lot of catching up to do.
 
i just purchased a s&w m&p 9mm. used it for the first time and the casings were very often hitting me in the chest, and face. the slide is locking back and the magazine is double feeding and jamming constantly. this is my first firearm purchase and I'm very upset. I did have the mag release changed to the Left side as I am left-handed. I also had my instructor shoot it ( he is right handed) and the same happend for him. 4 separate magazines failed with this gun, and the followers were getting jammed at the bottom of the magazine. Does anyone have any advice for me.
 
plblou said:
i just purchased a s&w m&p 9mm. used it for the first time and the casings were very often hitting me in the chest, and face. the slide is locking back and the magazine is double feeding and jamming constantly. this is my first firearm purchase and I'm very upset. I did have the mag release changed to the Left side as I am left-handed. I also had my instructor shoot it ( he is right handed) and the same happend for him. 4 separate magazines failed with this gun, and the followers were getting jammed at the bottom of the magazine. Does anyone have any advice for me.
Click to expand...

Who changed the mag release to the other side? I've read reports about that being problematic (not saying it's right though). You might try switching the mag release back. Being left handed may not be a bad thing with a normal mag release. I've considered changing my mag release to the other side (I'm right handed) and have difficulty with my thumb releasing the mag, I think I could do it better and faster with my finger instead of the thumb. I haven't done it due to the stories about feeding. Where are you holding the pistol when you fire it for the casing to hit you in the chest?? Sounds like you're shooting from the hip. In a normal sight picture I can't envision a casing hitting you in the chest. Can't help you with the followers getting jammed. Are these new S&W mags? Or did you get them used and someone shortened the follower legs. I've never had a problem with genuine mags, aftermarket ones yes, but not genuine (unless I dropped them in the mud:eek:)
 
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