M&P 9mm FS Doesn't like Plated bullets???

[RStephen]

Just a quick note/question...
M&P 9mm FS.

When shooting PLATED RELOADS of various weight and powder, average group size at 25yds are around 6-8".
When shooting JACKETED FACTORY AMMO of various weight, group sizes tighten up considerably to 3-4".

All above rounds get 2-3" groups when ran through g-19 with kkm barrel.

I think my M&P just doesn't like PLATED bullets as group sizes become better when switching to JACKETED.
Anyone else seeing this?

 

[RStephen]

Additional notes:
124 grain were Rainier RN
147 grain bere Berry's RN
OAL to barrel spec

 

[blujax01]

Honestly it sounds like you need to work with your recipes a bit. It is more likely factory loads vs reloads rather than plated vs jacketed. Drop down to the reloading forum and knock heads with those folks awhile - gotta be at least one of them shoots a Full Sized M&P9.

 

[Bkreutz]

All I use are plated bullets, both for practice and competition. Who reloaded your plated rounds? RMR, Xtreme, and Berry say that they should be loaded to jacketed data as lead data is too slow.

 

[WR Moore]

The Berry advice I had was that the load data for lead bullets is suggested as a starting point. I happen to use Unique and I backed off about 1/2 a grain from jacketed loads and got equal velocities and very good accuracy.

 

[Duster340]

Can't speak for the 9mm, but I have had great success with Berry's plated FP & RS 180 gr bullets and 8 gr of Blue Dot in my M&P 40. Every bit as accurate as factory loads. Guess like the other folks noted, you may just need to work up a load the works for your M&P.

 

[RStephen]

Load data including min/max came from phone calls to Rainier and Berry's. Load data was also verified in Hornady manual. Loads were increased from minimum to maximum in 2 grain increments. I have used both lead and jacketed load data. I am not up to around 300 test rounds that have been tried.
The funny thing is this... All of these test plated loads were also shot in the Glock 19 with acceptable accuracy. These plated loads were terrible in the M&P.

I have ordered some 124g jacketed to reload.

 

[M29since14]

I used the Berry's 124-gr flat-nose bullet for a while and had fair luck with it. Not so much so with the 147-gr RN bullet. I eventually came to the conclusion that nothing I could afford to shoot would consistently make a decent 5-shot, 25-yards group in my M&P9L. Sometimes I would get 3-4 shots within 1.5-2.0", but the gun would throw one wild shot in about 60-70% of my groups - sometimes two. In cases where there were no wild shots or flyers, I might get a group in the 4-inch range if I was lucky. I just gave up. That said, I did not see a significant difference between the Berry's 124-gr flat-nose and my jacketed reloads. Do you keep your barrel reasonably clean?

 

[OKFC05]

In 9mm and .40, I have found Berry bullets to be sensitive to WHICH POWDER you use, how much, the type of rifling in the barrel, and how smooth the individual barrel is. There is a general "speed limit" with plated bullets, but each gun and load combination is different. Spreading groups often mean the plating is starting to break through. I can't shoot major .40 in my Brn HP without getting plate sized patterns instead of groups.
So,
What kind of powder?
How much powder with each bullet? (I use a chronograph, and plated bullets need a charge in between lead and FMJ to get the same PF)
Is your barrel new, or have you shot a lot of jacketed through it?
How clean is your barrel (copper fouling)? Plated are more sensitive than jacketed to fouling.

 

[RStephen]

S&W replaced barrel 2 weeks ago for groups and vertical stringing.
Before, groups were off paper and looked like buckshot.
New barrel is an improvement and I am sure a lot of people would be satisfied with what I get from white box winchester but I refuse to tell my wife that the garrage full of reloading supplies won't work with the M&P. Yikes!

Power Pistol.
Winchester WSR primers
Hand picked brass at .749 for consistency.

This is the load data for lead. I also tried loading a batch with jacketed data but can't find sheet data at moment...
124g 4.6, 4.8, 5.0, 5.2 and 5.4 with 5.0 and 5.2 getting best group 6"
147g 3.7, 4.0, 4.3, 4.6 and 4.9 with 4.3 and 4.6 getting best group 5"
OAL 1.15
Lee factory crimp with slight crimp.

and after all this... winchester white box gives 3-4" groups

 

[Tinn-Can]

Isn't the federal champion stuff plated? That might be a good reference point...

 

[WR Moore]

I do have a question. In your initial post you state "OAL to barrel spec". This puzzles me. The overall length is stated in load data for the particular bullet/type. If you're loading 124 gr FN, then measuring the OAL for a factory 124 FN (or JHP with the same ogive/nose shape) will give you the correct OAL.

You don't load pistol bullets to a specific distance from the rifling lands like you may do for match rifle ammunition. If you're not loading to the OAL specified in the load data, you're not getting the velocities stated in the load data. (Depending upon various factors, you're probably not getting those velocities anyway, but changing the OAL is definately screwing with your results.) If you're loading long, you're reducing pressures and velocities. If your velocities are low, your bullet is in the barrel longer. This gives your followthrough more time to mess up your groups.

The load data you list in the more recent posts lists an OAL, try that if you haven't. Check some other sources too.

You might also try changing to a taper crimp die. Over crimping plated bullets can cause damage that can produce the results you're seeing. The Glock rifling is probably more forgiving than standard rifling .

 

[scooter123]

FYI, Federal Champion and Speer Lawman TMJ both feature plated bullets, made by who I do not know but they are definitely plated. I also suspect that the American Eagle ammo by Federal is also plated but have broken any of that down and can't say it's a fact. Point is that if any of the above is on your "good" ammo list you may need to reconsider your loads.

Personally, all I shoot now are plated reloads and I cannot complain a bit. Yesterday I was testing some new 38 spl loads and after tuning the sghts on my model 67 to absolute perfection I was able to string 5 shots though a 1/2 inch hole at 15 yards. As for the flyer, that was all on me. BTW, I was "cheating" and shooting off a rest with reading glasses but it's a lot of fun to have the sights tuned so well that you can use a previous hit as a point of aim and shoot into that hole.

 

[marlin.357]

Power Pistol.
Winchester WSR primers
Hand picked brass at .749 for consistency.

This is the load data for lead. I also tried loading a batch with jacketed data but can't find sheet data at moment...
124g 4.6, 4.8, 5.0, 5.2 and 5.4 with 5.0 and 5.2 getting best group 6"
147g 3.7, 4.0, 4.3, 4.6 and 4.9 with 4.3 and 4.6 getting best group 5"
OAL 1.15
Lee factory crimp with slight crimp.

and after all this... winchester white box gives 3-4" groups

1. Does Power Pistol need small RIFLE primers to light? (I don't think so). They also may be increasing pressure/velocity beyond what you think.

2. The Lee Factory Crimp die works great with jacketed bullets, IMHO tends to squeeze lead & plated bullets too much, making them undersize. I thnk you wil get better results with a taper crimp die with only enough crimp to remove the case flare. Pull a few bullets after you load 'em, measure before & after.

 

[RStephen]

Marlin.357....
Good catch! I did mistakenly list Winchester WSR as the primer. That's what I get for looking over the top of my glasses and glancing at blue boxes. I actually used CCI 500's small pistol primers.

 

[RStephen]

KKM barrel should arrive tomorrow so I get to start all over again...

 

[rwsmith]

It keeps things....

KKM barrel should arrive tomorrow so I get to start all over again...

It keeps things interesting.

 

[RStephen]

Haven't posted in a while... Love the KKM barrel. Also had to put in the apex trigger kit. groups now down to 1.5" @ 15 yards.

 

[Sgt 45]

I shoot the 124gr Xtreme flat point with 5gr Unique and CCI 500. I get excellent accuracy in the FS 9, not as good with the 9c. Unfortunately, the problem with the 9c is the shooter not the ammo