M&P accuracy, what gives?

As a somewhat new USPSA shooter, I've been on some forums where these discussions get really detailed. Those reports of inaccuracy stem from bench-shot group results. This isn't related to sight issues.

The latest generation of barrels have improved the groupings. Whether 9mm or .40, it seems it breaks down into two things.

1. Current twist rate update brings better consistency using different ammo, where before it varied by weight/power.

2. Improved lock-up provides better groups based on having less slop between the chamber portion of the barrel and slide while in battery.

Some of these shooters comment that their STI/SVI pistols can hold 1"-2" groups at 25 yrds. The M&P was struggling with 4"+ groups at this same distance. Some now report getting the groups in the 2" range with the newer barrels, or going with custom fit barrels. Others have said they just gave up on the platform.

I just purchased two KKM barrels and noticed a slightly better fit in terms of lock-up precision.

I've never shot off a bench at 25yrds, but I can get sub 3" groupings standing-freestyle at about 36 ft. For my purposes, this works for run and gun.
 
Gary Roberts made a pretty detailed report of this on another forum. The accuracy problems really don't show until 25 yards, and there are real issues of inconsistency and fliers in the 9mm M&Ps, especially the full size models. He's found the 45M&Ps to be on a par with good 1911s, and the 40s to be on a par with other .40 service pistols. A couple of other solid LE shooters are reporting similar results in the same forum. These are guys who do this for a living, who depend on these pistols for duty and personal defense, and who shoot a lot.

A service pistol that is not capable of consistent face (the eye corner and nose triangle) shots on demand at 25 yards or more is not acceptable. I am not sure I could do that now, with my beat up vision, but there was a time when I could have at or near 50 yards. Yes, the right answer is a rifle, but sometimes all you have is the pistol.
 
Lots of good info on here.

So there seems that there were a run of bad barrels for the 9mm, that has since been fixed.

I agree with some of the others. A lot of times the problem is not with the gun. It can be technique or ammo related issues causing a gun to seem to be not accurate.

Thanks for the replies.
 
What do you guys recommend in order to try and keep your hands still just before the shot?

My hands are always moving/trembling. Whether it be eating with a fork or shooting a gun. I usually try and take a breath in..then out stopping half way when breathing out.

And i also have noticed when i shoot self defense ammo..it seems much more accurate then the cheap stuff i buy which i know has a effect on it
 
I usually try and take a breath in..then out stopping half way when breathing out.
This used to be what was taught, but we've gotten smarter since then.

There is a natural pause just as you come to the end of breathing out. It's there for a moment before you start breathing in again. So, use this point to stop breathing and fire. Don't wait more than a few seconds though. If you wait too long, you'll start to see your heart beat in your hold. Breathe out, press the trigger straight back until the gun goes off.

Now start working on the pull or press of the trigger. Make it smooth and in one continuous motion. At first it will be slow, but you can speed this up as you learn to do it smoothly.
 
What do you guys recommend in order to try and keep your hands still just before the shot?

My hands are always moving/trembling. Whether it be eating with a fork or shooting a gun. I usually try and take a breath in..then out stopping half way when breathing out.

And i also have noticed when i shoot self defense ammo..it seems much more accurate then the cheap stuff i buy which i know has a effect on it

I am with you brother, same here.

Only thing worked for me so far is to squeeeeeeeeze the trigger until the shot surprises me. From what I've seen with my whopping 1,200 rounds (lol), trigger control is something we're just going to have to learn.
 
Regulate your trigger to a weight that you can pull without disturbing the sight picture. 2-4 pounds generally, if you must have more, invest in a training regimen to strengthen your hands.

Regulate your caffeine and nicotine intake. Make it regular on the days you shoot. Nether splurge nor deprive yourself of it.

Ensure that your blood sugar is right. Neither too high nor too low. Eat before the range trip and allow some time to begin digestion. I found that I would not eat properly before matches or range trips due to the excitement I felt and it affected my performance in a negative manner. Also cramming food down the gullet just before you get there is also not good. You will be sluggish and the nourishment will not yet have taken effect.

Hydrate properly also, it is very important whether hot or cold outside.

Finally look into simple sugar sources to maintain the blood sugar like fruit or honey as it digests rapidly and benefits the muscles more quickly.
 
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What do you guys recommend in order to try and keep your hands still just before the shot?

My hands are always moving/trembling. Whether it be eating with a fork or shooting a gun. I usually try and take a breath in..then out stopping half way when breathing out.

And i also have noticed when i shoot self defense ammo..it seems much more accurate then the cheap stuff i buy which i know has a effect on it

Have someone toss some snap caps in the magazine randomly, work on breathing, and exercise.


snap caps- Having someone randomly load them in to your mags with regular cartridges will help. You get your stance, you get your grip, you press out and acquire your front sight against the target, your finger moves on to the trigger, you breathe in and then out all the way, you start pressing back on the trigger with the center of your finger pad to stage the trigger then slowly apply consistent force straight back annnnnd.....*click*. That *click* is pretty damned useful for discovering what you're doing with the gun as the sear releases the striker. You'll see of you're pushin, pulling, flinching or squeezing the gun by watching where the front sight goes.

The other thing it does is start to desensitize you to the recoil and rapport of the shot. When you practice enough like this, you'll begin to follow-through better with your trigger press and won't bounce your finger off the trigger as much as well. That'll also help with your shakes if you break your shot and then consciously let the trigger out just enough to reset it. It'll limit waste movement and reduce how much negative influence you have over the gun.

Breathing- Watch anyone that has to make precise and repeatable movements anywhere in the physical world...before they do them they'll often have a ritual involving breathing to put their body in a consistent place. In shooting, it goes even further than psychological, being that breathing effects your whole body. Before you press out, while you're in a high-ready/high-compressed position, oxygenate your blood by breathing all the way in and all the way out a couple times. The partial pressure of O2 in your lungs will increase and it'll flush out the CO2.

That tactical breathing will slow your heart rate and better supply your muscles and ETS energy system with O2. From there, you can press out and take a deep breath in and then out. At the bottom of that tidal cycle is a respiratory pause, where you have a handful of seconds of useful time after fully exhaling to do consistent work.

Of course, if you're doing more run/gun stuff your breathing will be different. You won't have time to fully exhale and may be running your heart rate up there high as you're negotiating obstacles/stress/physical challenges. In these kinds of situations just forcing a respiratory pause mid-tital cycle can be an effective way of managing the ups and downs of breathing while shooting.

Exercising- You're holding a lb of metal at near full extension away from your body for an extended period of time. Take a full gallon of milk and hold it straight out as long as you can...then watch what happens as your muscles fatigue....they start shaking. The better you condition your muscles, the more resistant they become to that fatigue.

I know a lot of people that work on grip-strength with a variety of squeezy-things of all shapes and sizes. It'll help you hold and press the trigger under control over and over again without your muscles fatiguing. They'll also often hang some weights from their trigger guard and just hold it out at full extension in their shooting position. They just work to condition their muscles for extended periods of time.

Also, hit the gym and work on things for your anterior delts, your core, and your arms. One of those better workouts would be to tie a rope to a 10 lb weight or so and tie the other end through a section of broomstick or something similar. Hold it straight out in front of you and use your forearms to turn the dowel and wind the rope around it to lift the weight. Wind the weight up ad down over and over to condition your muscles.

some tricks for shaking hands-
others have mentioned reducing caffeine intake. That's just good all around advice in general. It'll help you sleep better and it'll reduce your chances of having migraines. It'll also be getting rid of a stimulant and source of shakes.

when hands get shaky, calm them down by pressing them together hard and doing some pnf stretching with them against each other.

Rest up. There's no sense in practicing incorrectly. Practice makes permanent. If you start getting fatigued and shaky at the range, just set the gun down, shake your hands out a bit and start again when you feel better. I often keep my handgun in at a high compressed ready, push out for a couple shots, and then come back to limit fatigue and give myself a break. It makes for better practice.


edit:
I forgot to mention that you can reduce fatigue by shooting in your natural point of aim instead of trying to force a shooting position. If you get in a stance, close your eyes, and bring your gun up naturally in front of you...not aiming at anything, you'll notice the gun settles in naturally to the same rough spot every time. At a static range you can use that to your advantage by moving your feet until your natural point of aim lines up with the target. It'll cause your body to have to work less and it'll lead to more solid fundamentals when you get to more advanced shooting and recoil management.
 
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