M&P M2.0 Accuracy Issues, do to dwell time?

[presspics]

I'm not aware of any accuracy complaints with the 9mm M2.0 pistols. My 9mm M2.0 will shoot a single ragged hole consistently. Damn thing out shoots my Beretta 92 and my CZ-75. The M&P 45 has always been superb. I'd like to get the 45 M2.0 but there's nothing wrong with my M1.0.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I'm not aware of any accuracy complaints with the 9mm M2.0 pistols. My 9mm M2.0 will shoot a single ragged hole consistently. Damn thing out shoots my Beretta 92 and my CZ-75. The M&P 45 has always been superb. I'd like to get the 45 M2.0 but there's nothing wrong with my M1.0.

The accuracy problem attributed to 1.0 9mm M&Ps hasn't been something that every owner has complained about -- but it's been mentioned enough to believe that at least some were affected.

Randy Lee (who did or does development work for S&W) tells us that it wasn't a problem seen in ALL M&P 1.0 9mm guns, and that the .45 version apparently never had a similar problem.

My M&P Pro (1.0) in 9mm, like your M&P in .45, is impressively accurate.

 

[Smakmauz]

Randy Lee is the creator of apex tactical. Did he (or you, if youre still listening) work for S&W at one point?

I always wondered if they have or had any kind of relation at all, or S&W hates Randy because his products are nicer.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Randy Lee is the creator of apex tactical. Did he (or you, if youre still listening) work for S&W at one point?

I always wondered if they have or had any kind of relation at all, or S&W hates Randy because his products are nicer.

Randy, in an earlier response, says he designed the S&W M&P barrel. (I couldn't tell from his comments if that was for versions 1.0 or 2.0 -- but I also don't know whether that matters, since I don't know that the BARREL changed between versions.)

When I said he "worked/works for" it was in THAT context (based on his earlier comment), not that he was necessarily a S&W employee -- the relationship is not clear.

Maybe S&W doesn't hate Randy...

 

[Randy Lee]

Hi guys,

To set the record straight, I have never worked for Smith and Wesson. That being said, I have many friends who work there. They know that I have a strong affinity toward their products that started with their revolvers back in the 80's.

My involvement with the M&P started with the release of our machined sear and our product line evolved as aftermarket support for those who wanted a little something more than the factory options provided.

My background is engineering, so I am obsessed with optimizing performance. That is why it took so long for me to produce our barrel- it had to pass my accuracy standards, and while most people will never need or want something that can shoot five rounds into a hole smaller than the bullet diameter I proved that it could be done. To date, I have not seen another polymer framed striker fired service pistol that has recorded a .3" five shot group at 25 yards from a Ransom Rest. But one police officer in PA has that gun as his duty pistol.

 

[Smakmauz]

Randy, in an earlier response, says he designed the S&W M&P barrel. (I couldn't tell from his comments if that was for versions 1.0 or 2.0 -- but I also don't know whether that matters, since I don't know that the BARREL changed between versions.)

When I said he "worked/works for" it was in THAT context (based on his earlier comment), not that he was necessarily a S&W employee -- the relationship is not clear.

Maybe S&W doesn't hate Randy...

ahh. ok. the barrel he was talking about in that context was the apex barrel that he designed and makes. The apex barrel fits both 1.0 and 2.0 and, while S&W did seem to make some adjustments to the 2.0 factory barrels, i believe they fit the 1.0's as well. although I haven't shot one like that to confirm this.

 

[Randy Lee]

Randy, in an earlier response, says he designed the S&W M&P barrel. (I couldn't tell from his comments if that was for versions 1.0 or 2.0 -- but I also don't know whether that matters, since I don't know that the BARREL changed between versions.)

When I said he "worked/works for" it was in THAT context (based on his earlier comment), not that he was necessarily a S&W employee -- the relationship is not clear.

Maybe S&W doesn't hate Randy...

I designed A barrel, not THE M&P barrel. I apologize if I made it sound like I was involved in the development of the M&P pistol.

 

[Randy Lee]

And hoprfully, they don't hate me...

 

[Smakmauz]

And hoprfully, they don't hate me...

I would hope its a kind of synergy. I hear a lot of people buying M&P's and shields just so they can apex them. but you never know I guess unless you ask

on another note, I think its kinda funny how "apex" has gone from being a proper noun to a verb in recent years. kinda like google

 

[Smakmauz]

Hi guys,

To set the record straight, I have never worked for Smith and Wesson. That being said, I have many friends who work there. They know that I have a strong affinity toward their products that started with their revolvers back in the 80's.

My involvement with the M&P started with the release of our machined sear and our product line evolved as aftermarket support for those who wanted a little something more than the factory options provided.

My background is engineering, so I am obsessed with optimizing performance. That is why it took so long for me to produce our barrel- it had to pass my accuracy standards, and while most people will never need or want something that can shoot five rounds into a hole smaller than the bullet diameter I proved that it could be done. To date, I have not seen another polymer framed striker fired service pistol that has recorded a .3" five shot group at 25 yards from a Ransom Rest. But one police officer in PA has that gun as his duty pistol.

Damn... that's some accurate sh*t. Does it have any other apex goodies in there?

 

[Randy Lee]

Damn... that's some accurate sh*t. Does it have any other apex goodies in there?

Their department authorizes Duty/Carry kits, our triggers, RAM, extractors and barrels. One officer has already used our barrel to preserve life. They trust their lives with our products, so I take how we design and manufacture our products very seriously.

 

[Randy Lee]

I would hope its a kind of synergy. I hear a lot of people buying M&P's and shields just so they can apex them. but you never know I guess unless you ask

on another note, I think its kinda funny how "apex" has gone from being a proper noun to a verb in recent years. kinda like google

It is a definite source of pride for me.

 

[Smakmauz]

Their department authorizes Duty/Carry kits, our triggers, RAM, extractors and barrels. One officer has already used our barrel to preserve life. They trust their lives with our products, so I take how we design and manufacture our products very seriously.

nice to see reasonable PD's out there that know the value of shooting accurately and not burdening their officers with unruly triggers and such.. (eh hem.. cough cough..suck it NYC)

your dedication shows in your products sir!! can't wait to see what you've done with the M2.0's and the APX!

 

[Smakmauz]

It is a definite source of pride for me.

as well it should be

 

[stavey]

Apex semi fit barrels are flat out amazing. My m&p's with semi fit apex barrels are the most accurate 9mm's I've ever tested in the ransom. I actually sent you some pics as well Randy. My 9mm M&P pistols shoot .600" average groups at 25 yards.
WHAT MORE COULD YOU WANT.
////Randy any chance on a trigger for the m&p 45 m2.0.\\\
Apex fully machined Sear and polish has pull around 4.5 lbs

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Apex semi fit barrels are flat out amazing. My m&p's with semi fit apex barrels are the most accurate 9mm's I've ever tested in the ransom. I actually sent you some pics as well Randy. My 9mm M&P pistols shoot .600" average groups at 25 yards.

Can you get a carry holster for a Ransom Rest? ))

Those comments make me want to get a semi-fitted Apex barrel for my M&P Pro. The only reason I won't -- and I may fool myself on this point and save up for a surprise Christmas gift for me -- is that I suspect that even with a semi-fitted barrel MY accuracy (not the gun's) will continue to be the weakest link in the combo. (Sigh.)

 

[Randy Lee]

Apex semi fit barrels are flat out amazing. My m&p's with semi fit apex barrels are the most accurate 9mm's I've ever tested in the ransom. I actually sent you some pics as well Randy. My 9mm M&P pistols shoot .600" average groups at 25 yards.
WHAT MORE COULD YOU WANT.
////Randy any chance on a trigger for the m&p 45 m2.0.\\\
Apex fully machined Sear and polish has pull around 4.5 lbs

Oh good! The more data I can collect the better!

We will be releasing our flat face forward set trigger system for the M2.0 9/40/45 very soon.

 

[WR Moore]

Walt, operator error still affects grouping with a Ransom Rest.

I happen to have one of the M&P9s 1.0 that made it out of the factory with optimal parts fits and no accuracy issues not related to operator error.

I have to admit a wee bit of skepticism about the effect of slide stretch. Yeah, it exists to a degree in all auto pistols. If it's not significant with the .40 & .357, shouldn't be an issue with the 9mm. Issues of barrel to frame/slide tolerance stack are more significant.

That said, I've noticed that Brownells no longer lists a locking block as available. Is there a redesign on the way for that? Does the 2.0 locking block drop right in? If so, we may be waiting for supply to out run production.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

... Yeah, it exists to a degree in all auto pistols. If it's not significant with the .40 & .357, shouldn't be an issue with the 9mm.

That was my unwritten thought, as well. I may be over-simplifying, but the folk I know who shoot .40 and .357 SIG seem more interested in extra punch than extra accuracy. (If the accuracy is good enough, that may be good enough...)

A later thought on this topic -- after coming back and rereading: gunmakers often, when creating .40 or .357 SIG semi-autos, use a single frame for 9mm, .40, and 357 SIG guns, but use a heavier slide as a way of controlling (and reducing) the slide velocity of the hotter rounds. That is the case with Glocks and some other guns, too. I wonder if the S&W M&P versions in .40 and .357 SIG have slightly heavier/stouter slides which could make the "stretching" slightly less likely?

 

[wrangler5]

In theory, good-enough accuracy should always be good enough.

Isn't the real problem that it can be hard to make the personal decision about just how far from a one-hole group is actually good enough? There's always the temptation to think that just-a-bit-better might be important under some imaginable scenario, however unlikely, so we set the bar up a bit (and get frustrated when we can't get to it.)