M&P range ammunition

[jyork08854]

I have recently been using TulAmmo steel 9mm ammo at the range after buying 1000 rounds for 16.9 cents per round with my full size M&P with no issues. With my new 9mm Shield I am using bulk reloads that cost 20 cents a piece. I am now out of the Tul. Is there any reason not to continue with these steel bullets? I'm new to shooting having bought the first gun in June.

 

[Kodiakco]

I guess if it runs good for you...
I, on the other hand, had problems with feeding and consistent groups. I now use Fiocchi and have had zero issues.

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[Kenny53]

If it works well and the price is right go for it. I have a bunch of steel cased ammo I use when I head out to the desert. Always works for me.

 

[scott_0]

if my weapons eat it, I feed it :shrugs:

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[fiasconva]

I bought a 100 round pack of the Rem UMC 9mm on sale. I've always used WWB or Federal. That is the nastiest, smelliest ammo I've ever used and cleaning the gun was a chore. The gun was as dirty after 50 rounds as 300 or so of the other brands. I don't mind cleaning but I won't make that mistake again.

 

[Shield9mm]

I like to try all kinds of ammo including the cheapest that I can find so far haven't had any issues.


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[cporfe]

Federal 9BP

I tend to shoot less than most so I buy bulk from an online retailer. I try and pick up 500 rounds of Federal 9BP 115grn hollow points in the plain white box. They can be relatively cheap and I know it'll be the magazine or the gun if things don't work out. As my outdoor range bans steel bullets (magnetic) it's easier.

I also like to mix it up with the Remington HTP 147grn subsonic, which can be cheap too. I know for some it's more expensive this way, but I'm still have over 1000 rounds from the last order of 2000 a year ago.

Works for me.

Chris

 

[lancehankins]

I reload, but sometimes I just buy ammo because of time constraints. I've used a lot of Blazer (brass) and Aguila. Also Remington and Winchester. Probably more of the Blazer than anything else. Never had an issue and the brass cases are reloadable. Never noticed any issues with it being exceptionally dirty and never had a failure to load or fire.


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[Rett Skutt]

I have recently been using TulAmmo steel 9mm ammo at the range after buying 1000 rounds for 16.9 cents per round with my full size M&P with no issues. With my new 9mm Shield I am using bulk reloads that cost 20 cents a piece. I am now out of the Tul. Is there any reason not to continue with these steel bullets? I'm new to shooting having bought the first gun in June.

Hi,

Brownells has some good deals going on for 9mm ammo. I just purchased 500 rounds (10 boxws of 50) for $94.90 of 115gr CCI Blazer ammo. That's .1898 per round. A little more than your TulAmmo, and the casings are Aluminum. But I find them accurate and very reliable. I've also shot Speer Lawman 115gr brass at .20 per round. Again good accurate ammo.

The CCI Blazer is a little dirty, but after 200+ rounds I find it okay to clean - meaning not bad (better than TulAmmo). The Speer Lawman is very good. Just some of my thoughts.

I've also been told, or read that some ranges don't allow steel or aluminum cases because they want the brass for reloads. The ranges I go to, there's no problem.

Take care and Shoot Straight,

 

[CB3]

I believe running Russian steel ammo in a favorite handgun is like using the cheapest regular gas you can find in a fine sports car. Yes, it will run, but not as well as premium gas.

Steel cases are very hard compared to brass. They typically will not expand/contract in the chamber like brass does. They are harder on your extractor and ejector.

I have found Russian ammo to be cheaply loaded as to quality control. It is not as accurate as better quality American made ammo. It is dirty.

If all you want is cheap to go bang, sure, use whatever. However, there may be a hidden safety and/or wear cost. I bet if you asked S&W, they would steer you away from steel cased ammo.

Unless you shoot many thousands of rounds a year, saving a few pennies/rnd is false economy in my book. Aluminum is a little better, but again, the savings are only a few $10 bills a year. I buy 9mm by the case and pay about $0.21/rnd out the door (or delivered). I also pick up brass at the range. While I don't reload anymore because my time is worth more than the savings of reloading, the brass is mine. About twice a year I take it to a recycler and get about $15. So maybe each round costs $0.01 less. Eh.

You get what you pay for. S&W pistols are designed for brass cases, not steel.

 

[martybee]

I believe running Russian steel ammo in a favorite handgun is like using the cheapest regular gas you can find in a fine sports car. Yes, it will run, but not as well as premium gas.

Steel cases are very hard compared to brass. They typically will not expand/contract in the chamber like brass does. They are harder on your extractor and ejector.

I have found Rusdian ammo to be cheaply loaded for quality control. It is not as accurate as better quality American made ammo. It is dirty.

If all you want is cheap to go bang, sure, use whatever. However, there may be a hidden safety and/or wear cost. I bet if you asked S&W, they would steer you away from steel cased ammo.

Unless you shoot many thousands of rounds a year, saving a few pennies/rnd is false economy in my book. Aluminum is a little better, but again, the savings are only a few $10 bills a year. I buy 9mm by the case and pay about $0.21/rnd out the door (or delivered). I also pick up brass at the range. While I don't reload anymore because my time is worth more than the savings of reloading, the brass is mine. About twice a year I take it to a recycler and get about $15. So maybe each round costs $0.01 less. Eh.

You get what you pay for. S&W pistols are designed for brass cases, not steel.

I tend to agree!
I also do not like to shoot steel cased ammo and I pick up the brass. I give mine to re-loaders at the LR.

 

[TruckinThumper]

Tula ammo is NOT like running low octane gas in a high end car... LOL.

Dirty yes, any less accurate? No, it is not.

There are a couple of "test" on Tulammo vs wolf, vs Federal.
were talking 10K rounds....no cleaning of the firearms, etc.

The big difference was basically throat and rifling. Both Tulammo and Wolf had noticeable corrosion, loss of accuracy ( were talking 3" at 100 yards).
The conclusion was:
We saved enough $ on the cheap ammo, the needed bbl replacement paid for itself with money left over, vs buying "better" ammo.

I run any cheap ammo I can find when I need it.
If your M&P eats it, and you can hit within reason of POA, do it.

 

[32icon]

S&W pistols are designed for brass cases, not steel.

CB3, I'm glad you posted this. I'm a newbie and was thinking of saving a few dollars here and there, but I was always apprehensive about using steel or aluminum so I never did. I didn't want it to cause my pistol any problems and felt the little extra savings wasn't worth it. Glad I stuck to my guns and your post confirmed it for me. Thanks.

 

[Ballistic147]

I've used a ton of Blazer Brass and never had any issues with it. It's also pretty clean and purchased in bulk generally runs me about 20 cents per round. I only shoot brass case stuff because I reload. Rolling my own 9mm's costs me 12 to 13 cents per round using FMJ's, lead would be a little cheaper but I prefer using jacketed. Between my wife, son and myself we can go through a ton of ammo. If you shoot a lot reloading is the way to go if you enjoy it. It gives me something constructive to do in the evenings of during bad weather when I can't get out and shoot.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Since the OP is in South Carolina, I'd recommend he look at Georgia Arms, and buy in bulk. Nearly as cheap as the cheapest ammo, but high quality stuff. I especially like their CANNED HEAT. Shipping would be very reasonable for the OP... (Shipping for 500 rounds of 9mm, which comes in GI ammo cans, is only about $12 to mid-NC.)

http://www.georgia-arms.com/

 

[Arik]

Steel cases ARE NOT harder than brass. Plenty of info and tests online that prove that both are about the same and in some cases the brass is harder. All it takes is 5 min of Google search

S&W was designed to shoot the caliber it's made in. No more no less. There was no special design to only use brass.

I shoot whatever I can get my hands on for the best price/quality. If I find 9 brass for $200 and under I buy that. Otherwise I buy and shoot steel case. I have shot steel case from vintage ww2 guns to modern guns from many manufacturers. Last week I had my first problem in years. A Brown Bear 9mm case didn't eject after firing. The gun was an HK USP 9. A tap with a cleaning rod got it out and I continued firing. That gun ran 500 rounds of Brown Bear.



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[Ranger17]

I've never used steel cased in my MP's, mainly due to when i started this shooting hobby 4 yrs ago i lived in SC and my local range (PSA's location) did not allow for steel or alum cased rounds to be used.
And now after a few years and few thousand rounds of asst brass with 0 issues (i tend to buy it in that .20-.22 area) i just stay with what works for me.
I have known others though who have used non-brass and have had no trouble with it.

 

[TruckinThumper]

I've never used steel cased in my MP's, mainly due to when i started this shooting hobby 4 yrs ago i lived in SC and my local range (PSA's location) did not allow for steel or alum cased rounds to be used.
And now after a few years and few thousand rounds of asst brass with 0 issues (i tend to buy it in that .20-.22 area) i just stay with what works for me.
I have known others though who have used non-brass and have had no trouble with it.

Take a guess why they dont want steel/alum. cases....

They recycle the brass.....too lazy to do sorting...

 

[Ranger17]

Take a guess why they dont want steel/alum. cases....

They recycle the brass.....too lazy to do sorting...

that was my guess as well; and as a newbie it wasn't worth me pushing back on it lol.
As much as i like to shoot, i may have to consider adding "reloading" to this hobby of mine.

 

[TruckinThumper]

that was my guess as well; and as a newbie it wasn't worth me pushing back on it lol.
As much as i like to shoot, i may have to consider adding "reloading" to this hobby of mine.

I would find a new range...but that is just me.

I have walked off of ranges after a mags worth. RSO was a piece of work, can stand shooting a 15-22, cant shoot at the dirt, all kinds of dumb stuff.....including no steel/alum case ammo.

I had one in florida tell me I could not have two targets and I could not tune a trigger at the shooting bench.....I was the only one on the line.
Promptly packed my stuff and was walking out? RSO said "its like that, huh?" YUP, I only shot about 5-7 rounds and was not putting up with that ****...LOL

 

[CB3]

Steel cases ARE NOT harder than brass. Plenty of info and tests online that prove that both are about the same and in some cases the brass is harder. All it takes is 5 min of Google search.

Since steel is cheaper than brass and just as soft (or softer according to your supposed Google searches), why don't all loaders use it instead of brass? Why doesn't our military use it? Why doesn't Hornady load Steel Cased 9mm? Why do even former Soviet republics make brass cased pistol ammo instead of steel cased? Why does brass cased ammo outsell brass or aluminum worldwide by margins of 10+/1?

Having worked for a bullet manufacturer/ammunition loader for over 5 years, I can with authority say your statement is false.

The only advantage steel has over brass is it's cheaper. It's not equivalent in other performance elements. It IS harder. It does not contract in a chamber after firing as well or quickly compared to brass. It is usually harder to extract. Russian QC is usually substandard compared to US manufacturers, and powders are dirtier. Bi-metal bullets are very hard on throats and barrels (not so much in pistol bullets). Military style primers used in Russian ammo are often very hard. Steel rusts unless it is either lacquer coated (Wolf ****) or zinc plated. Lacquer coating fouls tight chambers. Russian caliber chambers are designed for and cut large for easy extraction of their cheap steel cased ammo. Brass runs fine in them because it is so malleable. The reverse is not always true about steel in SAAMI spec chambers.

Tula seems to be the best of foreign steel ammo.

Does it work? Yep. Should you use it? Yep, if cheap is important to you. But not because it is the same as brass cased ammo, because it ain't.

 

[Arik]

Since steel is cheaper than brass and just as soft (or softer according to your supposed Google searches), why don't all loaders use it instead of brass? Why doesn't our military use it? Why doesn't Hornady load Steel Cased 9mm? Why do even former Soviet republics make brass cased pistol ammo instead of steel cased? Why does brass cased ammo outsell brass or aluminum worldwide by margins of 10+/1?

Having worked for a bullet manufacturer/ammunition loader for over 5 years, I can with authority say your statement is false.

The only advantage steel has over brass is it's cheaper. It's not equivalent in other performance elements. It IS harder. It does not contract in a chamber after firing as well or quickly compared to brass. It is usually harder to extract. Russian QC is usually substandard compared to US manufacturers, and powders are dirtier. Bi-metal bullets are very hard on throats and barrels (not so much in pistol bullets). Military style primers used in Russian ammo are often very hard. Steel rusts unless it is either lacquer coated (Wolf ****) or zinc plated. Lacquer coating fouls tight chambers. Russian caliber chambers are designed for and cut large for easy extraction of their cheap steel cased ammo. Brass runs fine in them because it is so malleable. The reverse is not always true about steel in SAAMI spec chambers.

Tula seems to be the best of foreign steel ammo.

Does it work? Yep. Should you use it? Yep, if cheap is important to you. But not because it is the same as brass cased ammo, because it ain't.

Hornady does sell steel case ammo along with other US manufacturers

Google Hornady steel match. Made in 9, 223, 308, 7.62x39 and others

Harder primers - irrelevant. Haven't had an issue.

Dirty powder - irrelevant. None of them are clean and you're going to clean after your done anyway. No issues with reliability

Rust - no issues. I live in a humid summer environment. My basement occasionally gets water if there is too much rain. Never had anything rust

Bimetal and barrels - irrelevant. Barrels get replaced.

Soviet republics make what sells. If concrete cases sold they'd make those. Some have become NATO and changed to NATO specs.

I do agree that performance is NOT the same. Often it is downgraded and certainly not match. But as range ammo goes it's perfectly fine. If it shoots where I point and does it reliably and consistently without problems than it is the same.




Here's a hardness test. Watch the video

Debunking the Myth: Steel is NOT harder than Brass *(On your operating parts) - The Firearm Blog


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[CB3]

Whoops. I don't know anything. You're right. So sorry, Arik.

 

[T2C]

I've shot A LOT of steel case ammunition over the past 20+ years, tens of thousands of rounds. I still shoot several thousand rounds of steel and aluminum case ammunition every year.

The Tula and Wolf tend to leave pistols and carbines a little dirtier after shooting than with Federal or Remington ammunition. Accuracy is not quite as good as accuracy from most of the higher cost U.S. ammunition.

I know one person locally who reloads steel and aluminum cases. I will not, because I don't have enough experience with it to trust my reloads with cases other than brass.

 

[Cap0n3]

This is what I use for putting holes in paper and shooting action pistol competitions. Cycles well and is plenty accurate.

 

[32icon]

This is what I use for putting holes in paper and shooting action pistol competitions. Cycles well and is plenty accurate.

Absolutely. It gets the job done, and done well! And if I want to switch it up a little bit, I get the Federal Champion from Walmart, which is usually sitting right next to the Perfecta!

 

[AGoyette]

Some of the cheapest ammo around here is PMC. It shoots accurately and cleanly. Plus it is brass cased so no worries about where I can shoot it and I can use the brass afterwards for reloads. The other brand I like is Federal/American Eagle.

 

[jyork08854]

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I really appreciate all of the input.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Take a guess why they dont want steel/alum. cases....

They recycle the brass.....too lazy to do sorting...

It's increasingly common for indoor ranges to let outside firms do the recycling because in most states collecting and recycling the lead and steel is expensive undertaking and arguably kind of dangerous (lead dust, etc.)

At the range where I shoot, they did their own collection and sorting for years, and had all sorts of problems with state and county environmental issues.

To make matters worse, they had to truck the lead to an adjoining state because nobody in NC seemed to want the lead and cases (or were willing to pay enough for it to justify the effort of collecting and hauling it); having access to a truck big enough to haul the lead was a concern.

For them, getting a firm to come in and, in effect, do it for nothing (keeping what they collected) probably saved the range money -- and it was certainly a lot less hassle, and a nasty job they no longer had to worry about.

I don't begrudge them NOT wanting to see people using steel. With outdoor ranges it's less of a problem.

 

[CBStuard]

Ov er the last 15 yrs we have shot 20+ cases of Wolf in our berettas. 3 yrs ago I got 500 rnds of Tula. We would get some no fires once in a while kind of like bulk .22. So just racked the slide and kept going. Then I noticed excess flame as my wife was shooting. Turns out one of those no fires left a bullet in the barrel and had split the barrel.

So the tula sat until a couple of months ago i thought i would carefully use it up in my 9c. After a couple of mags I had something happen and the case was stuck in the chamber. Got home and found the bullet was gone so I started to try to beat the case out of the barrel w/ a hammer and brass drift. Finally had to drill out the primer plus more to remove it. The last 5 boxes are going into the river.