M&P range ammunition

[CB3]

Steel cases ARE NOT harder than brass. Plenty of info and tests online that prove that both are about the same and in some cases the brass is harder. All it takes is 5 min of Google search.

Since steel is cheaper than brass and just as soft (or softer according to your supposed Google searches), why don't all loaders use it instead of brass? Why doesn't our military use it? Why doesn't Hornady load Steel Cased 9mm? Why do even former Soviet republics make brass cased pistol ammo instead of steel cased? Why does brass cased ammo outsell brass or aluminum worldwide by margins of 10+/1?

Having worked for a bullet manufacturer/ammunition loader for over 5 years, I can with authority say your statement is false.

The only advantage steel has over brass is it's cheaper. It's not equivalent in other performance elements. It IS harder. It does not contract in a chamber after firing as well or quickly compared to brass. It is usually harder to extract. Russian QC is usually substandard compared to US manufacturers, and powders are dirtier. Bi-metal bullets are very hard on throats and barrels (not so much in pistol bullets). Military style primers used in Russian ammo are often very hard. Steel rusts unless it is either lacquer coated (Wolf ****) or zinc plated. Lacquer coating fouls tight chambers. Russian caliber chambers are designed for and cut large for easy extraction of their cheap steel cased ammo. Brass runs fine in them because it is so malleable. The reverse is not always true about steel in SAAMI spec chambers.

Tula seems to be the best of foreign steel ammo.

Does it work? Yep. Should you use it? Yep, if cheap is important to you. But not because it is the same as brass cased ammo, because it ain't.

 

[Arik]

Since steel is cheaper than brass and just as soft (or softer according to your supposed Google searches), why don't all loaders use it instead of brass? Why doesn't our military use it? Why doesn't Hornady load Steel Cased 9mm? Why do even former Soviet republics make brass cased pistol ammo instead of steel cased? Why does brass cased ammo outsell brass or aluminum worldwide by margins of 10+/1?

Having worked for a bullet manufacturer/ammunition loader for over 5 years, I can with authority say your statement is false.

The only advantage steel has over brass is it's cheaper. It's not equivalent in other performance elements. It IS harder. It does not contract in a chamber after firing as well or quickly compared to brass. It is usually harder to extract. Russian QC is usually substandard compared to US manufacturers, and powders are dirtier. Bi-metal bullets are very hard on throats and barrels (not so much in pistol bullets). Military style primers used in Russian ammo are often very hard. Steel rusts unless it is either lacquer coated (Wolf ****) or zinc plated. Lacquer coating fouls tight chambers. Russian caliber chambers are designed for and cut large for easy extraction of their cheap steel cased ammo. Brass runs fine in them because it is so malleable. The reverse is not always true about steel in SAAMI spec chambers.

Tula seems to be the best of foreign steel ammo.

Does it work? Yep. Should you use it? Yep, if cheap is important to you. But not because it is the same as brass cased ammo, because it ain't.

Hornady does sell steel case ammo along with other US manufacturers

Google Hornady steel match. Made in 9, 223, 308, 7.62x39 and others

Harder primers - irrelevant. Haven't had an issue.

Dirty powder - irrelevant. None of them are clean and you're going to clean after your done anyway. No issues with reliability

Rust - no issues. I live in a humid summer environment. My basement occasionally gets water if there is too much rain. Never had anything rust

Bimetal and barrels - irrelevant. Barrels get replaced.

Soviet republics make what sells. If concrete cases sold they'd make those. Some have become NATO and changed to NATO specs.

I do agree that performance is NOT the same. Often it is downgraded and certainly not match. But as range ammo goes it's perfectly fine. If it shoots where I point and does it reliably and consistently without problems than it is the same.




Here's a hardness test. Watch the video

Debunking the Myth: Steel is NOT harder than Brass *(On your operating parts) - The Firearm Blog


Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[CB3]

Whoops. I don't know anything. You're right. So sorry, Arik.

 

[T2C]

I've shot A LOT of steel case ammunition over the past 20+ years, tens of thousands of rounds. I still shoot several thousand rounds of steel and aluminum case ammunition every year.

The Tula and Wolf tend to leave pistols and carbines a little dirtier after shooting than with Federal or Remington ammunition. Accuracy is not quite as good as accuracy from most of the higher cost U.S. ammunition.

I know one person locally who reloads steel and aluminum cases. I will not, because I don't have enough experience with it to trust my reloads with cases other than brass.

 

[Cap0n3]

This is what I use for putting holes in paper and shooting action pistol competitions. Cycles well and is plenty accurate.

 

[32icon]

This is what I use for putting holes in paper and shooting action pistol competitions. Cycles well and is plenty accurate.

Absolutely. It gets the job done, and done well! And if I want to switch it up a little bit, I get the Federal Champion from Walmart, which is usually sitting right next to the Perfecta!

 

[AGoyette]

Some of the cheapest ammo around here is PMC. It shoots accurately and cleanly. Plus it is brass cased so no worries about where I can shoot it and I can use the brass afterwards for reloads. The other brand I like is Federal/American Eagle.

 

[jyork08854]

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions. I really appreciate all of the input.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Take a guess why they dont want steel/alum. cases....

They recycle the brass.....too lazy to do sorting...

It's increasingly common for indoor ranges to let outside firms do the recycling because in most states collecting and recycling the lead and steel is expensive undertaking and arguably kind of dangerous (lead dust, etc.)

At the range where I shoot, they did their own collection and sorting for years, and had all sorts of problems with state and county environmental issues.

To make matters worse, they had to truck the lead to an adjoining state because nobody in NC seemed to want the lead and cases (or were willing to pay enough for it to justify the effort of collecting and hauling it); having access to a truck big enough to haul the lead was a concern.

For them, getting a firm to come in and, in effect, do it for nothing (keeping what they collected) probably saved the range money -- and it was certainly a lot less hassle, and a nasty job they no longer had to worry about.

I don't begrudge them NOT wanting to see people using steel. With outdoor ranges it's less of a problem.

 

[CBStuard]

Ov er the last 15 yrs we have shot 20+ cases of Wolf in our berettas. 3 yrs ago I got 500 rnds of Tula. We would get some no fires once in a while kind of like bulk .22. So just racked the slide and kept going. Then I noticed excess flame as my wife was shooting. Turns out one of those no fires left a bullet in the barrel and had split the barrel.

So the tula sat until a couple of months ago i thought i would carefully use it up in my 9c. After a couple of mags I had something happen and the case was stuck in the chamber. Got home and found the bullet was gone so I started to try to beat the case out of the barrel w/ a hammer and brass drift. Finally had to drill out the primer plus more to remove it. The last 5 boxes are going into the river.

 

[Mahalo_.32]

That could have been a lot worse

 

[jyork08854]

You all gave me so much infp to consider. i will look into the brands you recommended. Thank you for all of the input. I love this forum. Such a great knowledge source.

 

[jeffpat]

Has anyone tried these reloads from Bite the Bullet? Brass casings and the price is $.17/round for 1000 rounds:

9mm 115gr RN/FMJ | Bite the Bullet

Are they reliable? Any downsides to using these?

 

[FLS&W]

With respect to all the other posters opinions, I only use Federal/Fiocchi new brass in my .380/9mm/45acp guns and Wolf ploycated steel case or Red Army Standard brass case in my Makarovs.

 

[Ytcoinshooter]

I do business with a second generation gunsmith for all my firearms purchase, work and advice. I buy ammo from several sources incl his business. I have had expireinces with steel cased ammo and it has been a poor performer. I learned from my gunsmith that I should totally avoid it in my shield. It is hard on the extractor as he has seen plenty of damaged and broken ones due to this junk ammo. Reliability and longevity of my pistols is the foremost concern I have. I still use a variety of ammo and buy as many of the bargain Perfecta boxes in 9mm and .380 as Wally World will allow. I haven't had one hiccup with Perfecta, around here the WW purchase cap is 3 boxes so I visit / buy often. Perfecta is good ammo, funny they are owned by Tulammo but there are manufacting locations in different countries if I understand correctly. As a side note he recommends Tulammo in AK's and other firearms designed or manufactured in former eastern bloc countries.
My .02¢

 

[Psheff]

I'm new to board. I'm just getting into reloading, reading everything I can. Watched a lot of Videos . Question what powder do you use. Have you played with adjusting powder charge? What works best for you. I have M&P Pro with 5" barrel. Reading the charge rates in book they are tested with 4" barrel. I understand length of barrel makes a difference. Your opinion. Thanks Paul