The_Unknown_Surfer
Member
AGREED! Or to put it another way, PROPER SIGHT PICTURE!
M&P SHIELD 0.40 CALIBER MAGAZINE DROP PROBLEM POLL
- Thread starter CJWig
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AGREED! Or to put it another way, PROPER SIGHT PICTURE!
Garnet
Member
Called S&W CS yesterday. Spoke with Tom. Told him my Shield had been previously returned, mag catch replaced. I stated since return the mags had not fallen out but I was concerned that the mag release took almost no pressure to release the mag. Also told him I had seen on this forum some people were being provided with new mags as the "fix". He stated he would send me an RA and provide new mags once I had shipped him my current mags. I inquired if this was the "official" fix for the problem. He replied it was not. I am providing this exchange simply as another data point. I am also currently undecided about exchanging the mags. If I do return them I'm thinking I will surreptitiously mark them thus allowing me to determine if they actually provide new or just modify mine. My serial # DXT.
The_Unknown_Surfer
Member
I say if they are offering to replace them for free, send them back, and absolutely mark them in some way, even an obvious one. My weapon & mags are on their way back to S&W now, and I marked everything, and took pictures of them also. You can never be too safe these days.
First post and I ain't happy!
Wife bought S&W Shield .40 yesterday. Serial prefix DXV. Was unaware of the magazine issue. She had an appointment so we did not get out on the range and shoot it until today.
First pop and the clip drops out. The clip fell out 32 of the first 35 rounds. We went back and fourth with the range attendant as it had to be our fault. Then he shot it. It dropped 6 for 6! Their gunsmith had to try it. 6 for 6 in the drop category.
Gun shop basically told us even though it was new, it was ours and tough ****, call Smith and Wesson.
Called S&W and he instantly knew of the problem and wants the gun and both mags. I said if you know of the problem why aren't you telling the dealer to not sell the gun till it's fixed? He got defensive. I don't appreciate the dealer selling a defective gun, that they know is defective, taking my money and acting like it's no big deal for me to eat the 3 week turn around.
As my wife said "Should have bough the damned Glock".
Wife bought S&W Shield .40 yesterday. Serial prefix DXV. Was unaware of the magazine issue. She had an appointment so we did not get out on the range and shoot it until today.
First pop and the clip drops out. The clip fell out 32 of the first 35 rounds. We went back and fourth with the range attendant as it had to be our fault. Then he shot it. It dropped 6 for 6! Their gunsmith had to try it. 6 for 6 in the drop category.
Gun shop basically told us even though it was new, it was ours and tough ****, call Smith and Wesson.
Called S&W and he instantly knew of the problem and wants the gun and both mags. I said if you know of the problem why aren't you telling the dealer to not sell the gun till it's fixed? He got defensive. I don't appreciate the dealer selling a defective gun, that they know is defective, taking my money and acting like it's no big deal for me to eat the 3 week turn around.
As my wife said "Should have bough the damned Glock".
doriandk
Member
I have been following and posting on this thread. Smith and Wesson fixed my mag drop problem. It shoots well now, but I am going to sell my Shield and get and XDS anyway. I understand there is the risk of hiccups when you buy a gun out of the gate. However, when I don't get straight answers from customer service and they act like I'm a pest when I call twice in four weeks to find out what is being done to fix the problem. I just can't get that taste out of my mouth. Call me a whiner if you want, but all I ask is to be straight with me. They have lost a customer.
windviking
Member
New Member here!
Sent my .40 shield back as both mags were dropping. Bad. Got it back. Said replaced mag and release. Noticed the "bump" on the mag where the catch engages. Shot 100 rounds through with no problems. Kind of a boring story looking at it now.
What bothers me is how this problem started in July based on what I have read. Shield .40's made earlier seem to have not had this issue. Do they have "bumps" on the mag on earlier serial number shield .40's? Why did they not have this problem. Is the "fix" they made for us (later shield owners) a patch? What happens if I buy additional mags? Will I have the same issue because they did not fix the root cause of the problem by just punching a "bump" on my mag?
OK I am new and probably not making a good first impression and sounding like some paranoid B****er. I know several have "fixed" this issue themselves and proud of it. I expect S&W to bring it to specifications like the initial production run. If the first runs pre July were not designed with a "bump" in the mag, what is still wrong with mine that requires this modification to design to make it work right?
I come from automotive manufacturing and understand quality issues in manufacturing. I do NOT understand a "patch" on an expensive precision machine. If you have a problem, fix it to design or replace it with something to spec as it was designed by the engineers.
Sent my .40 shield back as both mags were dropping. Bad. Got it back. Said replaced mag and release. Noticed the "bump" on the mag where the catch engages. Shot 100 rounds through with no problems. Kind of a boring story looking at it now.
What bothers me is how this problem started in July based on what I have read. Shield .40's made earlier seem to have not had this issue. Do they have "bumps" on the mag on earlier serial number shield .40's? Why did they not have this problem. Is the "fix" they made for us (later shield owners) a patch? What happens if I buy additional mags? Will I have the same issue because they did not fix the root cause of the problem by just punching a "bump" on my mag?
OK I am new and probably not making a good first impression and sounding like some paranoid B****er. I know several have "fixed" this issue themselves and proud of it. I expect S&W to bring it to specifications like the initial production run. If the first runs pre July were not designed with a "bump" in the mag, what is still wrong with mine that requires this modification to design to make it work right?
I come from automotive manufacturing and understand quality issues in manufacturing. I do NOT understand a "patch" on an expensive precision machine. If you have a problem, fix it to design or replace it with something to spec as it was designed by the engineers.
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The_Unknown_Surfer
Member
Maybe I'm just blind, But . . . .
Maybe I'm just blind and can't see it through all the product drop downs, but is there any way to track the status of the repair through S&W's web site, instead of calling them to find out the status?
The reason that I am wondering is so I can be at home when it is returned and can sign for it. (I'll have to take time off of work) Plus, I'm not crazy about it being driven around for multiple days by FedEx.
I think S&W Customer Service might get a little annoyed if I called every day asking about it.
But on the other hand maybe calling every day would make them fix it faster? The old "squeaky wheel" syndrome?
Maybe I'm just blind and can't see it through all the product drop downs, but is there any way to track the status of the repair through S&W's web site, instead of calling them to find out the status?
The reason that I am wondering is so I can be at home when it is returned and can sign for it. (I'll have to take time off of work) Plus, I'm not crazy about it being driven around for multiple days by FedEx.
I think S&W Customer Service might get a little annoyed if I called every day asking about it.
But on the other hand maybe calling every day would make them fix it faster? The old "squeaky wheel" syndrome?
The_Unknown_Surfer
Member
No, you're not a "B****er". I feel the same way.
I held off purchasing a Shield 40 for a couple of months to try and avoid any problems with a startup manufacturing process.
It never fails, whenever I think I'm doing my best Mr. Spock 'logical' impersonation, I get it wrong and get burned.
And you pose a very good question about any additional mags purchased off the shelf.,now or in the future.
As I said in an earlier post,
When a company is manufacturing something specifically designed to "SHIELD" a person's life, a LOT more product testing and quality control is needed.
I have expressed in other posts that S&W is hurting themselves and their reputation by not being more aggressive in responding to the obvious problem with the .40 Shields. However, I think that people should keep in mind how truly cutting edge the Shield is. No other major manufacturer is offering a full featured .40 cal in a package that is this concealable and this shootable.
In my view, the Shield is the semi-auto answer to the J frame revolver. Small enough to carry all the time in complete comfort and easily concealed, but more powerful, more comfortable to shoot, easier to reload and more accurate. Shoot 5 rounds of .38 +P in a J frame then shoot a mag full of 9mm +P or .40 cal in a shield and you will appreciate how revolutionary the Shield is. J frames are unpleasant to shoot. The Shield is a pleasure to shoot.
So, despite the initial mag drop issue, I'm keeping my Shield because i can drop the Shield in one pocket, a spare mag in the other and have 14 rounds of .40 cal on me at all times. Not bad.
In my view, the Shield is the semi-auto answer to the J frame revolver. Small enough to carry all the time in complete comfort and easily concealed, but more powerful, more comfortable to shoot, easier to reload and more accurate. Shoot 5 rounds of .38 +P in a J frame then shoot a mag full of 9mm +P or .40 cal in a shield and you will appreciate how revolutionary the Shield is. J frames are unpleasant to shoot. The Shield is a pleasure to shoot.
So, despite the initial mag drop issue, I'm keeping my Shield because i can drop the Shield in one pocket, a spare mag in the other and have 14 rounds of .40 cal on me at all times. Not bad.
And when I got off the phone with S&W I'm told that the return label, sent via email will arrive in 24 to 48 hours!!!!
Another weird question. What if someone bought one of these defective pistols, loaded it at the dealer without shooting it then has a need to use it on the way home?? Buyer gets one shot off then the clip is on the floor! Seems like a lawsuit just waiting to h happen!
Another weird question. What if someone bought one of these defective pistols, loaded it at the dealer without shooting it then has a need to use it on the way home?? Buyer gets one shot off then the clip is on the floor! Seems like a lawsuit just waiting to h happen!
Nakanokalronin
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Anyone who buys any gun and immediately loads it, then carries it without firing a single shot through the gun which includes the defense ammo of their choice is not very smart. There is no lawsuit waiting to happen.
New member, registered just to report on my .40 Shield issue. Bought the pistol last month, and had drop issues with the 7 round mag right away. Drop issues developed with the 6 rounder late in the first range session (150 rounds). My second range session (200 rounds) was plagued by near-constant drops with both mags.
I've been watching this thread, waiting for something definitive from S&W on a fix... unwilling to send in my pistol for an indeterminate period of time. Last night I disassembled both mags, and modified the mags at the point of mag-catch engagement, as per recommendations in this thread. Today, I took the Shield to the range at lunch and put 100 flawless, drop-free rounds through both the 6 and 7 round mags. The gun really is a pleasure to shoot once the dropsies are eliminated. I am also 100% confident in carrying this gun now, as well. I will, however, keep tabs on the issue and exchange my mags for modified "gen2" shield mags if S&W makes them available.
Like others, I'm a little ticked that I had the issue at all, but it was worth it because I worked through it and having a semi-auto .40 that I can pocket carry was the holy grail of my concealed weapon search over the last ten years. I FINALLY have a weapon that I don't feel requires compromises from me.
I've been watching this thread, waiting for something definitive from S&W on a fix... unwilling to send in my pistol for an indeterminate period of time. Last night I disassembled both mags, and modified the mags at the point of mag-catch engagement, as per recommendations in this thread. Today, I took the Shield to the range at lunch and put 100 flawless, drop-free rounds through both the 6 and 7 round mags. The gun really is a pleasure to shoot once the dropsies are eliminated. I am also 100% confident in carrying this gun now, as well. I will, however, keep tabs on the issue and exchange my mags for modified "gen2" shield mags if S&W makes them available.
Like others, I'm a little ticked that I had the issue at all, but it was worth it because I worked through it and having a semi-auto .40 that I can pocket carry was the holy grail of my concealed weapon search over the last ten years. I FINALLY have a weapon that I don't feel requires compromises from me.
Paints-n-cows
Member
Brought home my DXP .40 Shield and have zero mag malfunctions but did have to light primer strikes. It may be an issue with the primers in my loads or a weapon problem. I will have to do some more evaluation. Does anyone else have rectangular strike marks on the primer or are they round? My firing pin appears round but the firing pin hole appears to elongated.
However, I did have another issue. Only one mag in the box. I started another thread about it.
However, I did have another issue. Only one mag in the box. I started another thread about it.
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I've been following this thread and I have a shield 40 that functions fine without mag drop issues. There is one concern that I didn't see addressed which is if the mag drop issue is the fault of the gun or if it is the fault of the mag itself. Let's say that it is in fact the magazine that is the issue, maybe the manufacturer had a lot of mags that fell in the bottom side of the specified tolerances and I later on purchase one of those mags. Am I going to start having the mag drop issue when using the mag?
On the other hand, what if the problem is with the gun itself and S&W had a lot of guns that the Mag Well was on the plus side of the tolerances. Those guns may always have the mag drop issue unless the hand punch modification was made to each of the mags.
I took some measurements from the gun and the mag with a set of dial calipers and if someone else with a set of calipers and a Shield 40 with the mag drop issue can take the same measurements then we can compare to see if it is the mag or the gun.
Shield 40, serial DXTxxxx
The measurements I took of the mag was the dimensions along the entire length of the extended mag and it was consistently 1.264" x .651"
The measurements I took of the gun was just the opening of the mag well as deep as I could get with the calipers and it was 1.312" x .680"
The possibility exist that the deeper into the mag well the measurements are taken the more the dimensions will increase or decrease but I don't have the proper equipment to take those measurements.
I know this should be the job of S&W to decipher the mag drop issue and find a remedy, but I just don't like the idea of the quick fix hand punch method as far as consistency between pistols and magazines. I do think the quick fix method is fine as long as you are using the mags S&W are modifying.
On the other hand, what if the problem is with the gun itself and S&W had a lot of guns that the Mag Well was on the plus side of the tolerances. Those guns may always have the mag drop issue unless the hand punch modification was made to each of the mags.
I took some measurements from the gun and the mag with a set of dial calipers and if someone else with a set of calipers and a Shield 40 with the mag drop issue can take the same measurements then we can compare to see if it is the mag or the gun.
Shield 40, serial DXTxxxx
The measurements I took of the mag was the dimensions along the entire length of the extended mag and it was consistently 1.264" x .651"
The measurements I took of the gun was just the opening of the mag well as deep as I could get with the calipers and it was 1.312" x .680"
The possibility exist that the deeper into the mag well the measurements are taken the more the dimensions will increase or decrease but I don't have the proper equipment to take those measurements.
I know this should be the job of S&W to decipher the mag drop issue and find a remedy, but I just don't like the idea of the quick fix hand punch method as far as consistency between pistols and magazines. I do think the quick fix method is fine as long as you are using the mags S&W are modifying.
Paints-n-cows
Member
DXP serial number. According the fired casing 4/2012
I just measured 6-round magazine and it is 1.264" x .647" and the mag well measures .680"
I just measured 6-round magazine and it is 1.264" x .647" and the mag well measures .680"
Are you having mag drop issues?
Paints-n-cows
Member
Nope. It locks up tight. The post above mine was asking about magazine measurements and mine are smaller than his in width but the same length.
Bengal Bruce
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I put another 100 rounds through the .40 Shield today.
Previously mentioned that I bent the mag catch up a little for more positive catch. Used a brass punch, came in on the opposite side and banged it out just a tad.
So, 150 rounds later and not a single issue.
I can understand people who are hesistant to do this but until S&W HAS an official fix then this is the way to go. I'll be damned if I have to send my Shield in for weeks just so they can do something I did at home.
Also, I gotta say that S&W has really dropped the ball. This has obviously been a problem for months and they should at the very least made a statement about the problems we .40 Shield owners are having.
Previously mentioned that I bent the mag catch up a little for more positive catch. Used a brass punch, came in on the opposite side and banged it out just a tad.
So, 150 rounds later and not a single issue.
I can understand people who are hesistant to do this but until S&W HAS an official fix then this is the way to go. I'll be damned if I have to send my Shield in for weeks just so they can do something I did at home.
Also, I gotta say that S&W has really dropped the ball. This has obviously been a problem for months and they should at the very least made a statement about the problems we .40 Shield owners are having.
I finally called S&W today regarding my mag drop problem with my .40 Shield. The rep knew of the problem, and immediately said he would send me a shipping label to send out back to them for repair. I asked about sending the mags back also, but he said that wasn't necessary, to send the pistol only. It will be interesting to see if a fix to the pistol without modifying the mags will cure the mag drop issue. Otherwise I love my Shield, and am looking forward to putting it into my EDC rotation along with a PM9 (also in for repair) and a SIG P239 (old faithful, it always goes bang).
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
I'd love to get two new mags. I have two of the six and two of the seven rounders on backorder with Cabelas, but have no idea when they will ship
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
oneiron
Member
Poor Customer Relations
They should at least own up to the problem and notify all 40 cal owners!
Is there anyone other than S&W making mags for this gun yet?
They should at least own up to the problem and notify all 40 cal owners!
Is there anyone other than S&W making mags for this gun yet?
Paints-n-cows
Member
Is it possible that you can find a set of calipers and measure the mags and see if there is a difference in width between the new ones and the ones that dropped out all of the time?
Paints-n-cows
Member
Are you kidding us? If they don't send you a return label, then call them and get a RMA and mail it yourself. Holy cow.
Its no wonder no one wants to develop and sell a new product. All anyone wants to do is make the lawyers rich.
If you have such an issue, put a fair price on it with a statement about the mag issue on the board and sell it to someone that has the ability to deal without having lawyers involved.
See the pictures I posted earlier in this thread. The "new" mags they sent me appear to have been modified by hand by S&W. Don't need calipers, you can see the difference.
Paints-n-cows
Member
I appreciate your pictures. However, the reason that I asked if it was possible to measure the mags was to ascertain whether there was a different dimension between magazines that were issued with the DXP and DXT vs. later ones.
If they are altering the magazines, that would suggest a dimensional change in the magazine over the manufacturing run of the different serial number series.
If they were or are replacing magazine catch, that would suggest either a dimensional or material change in it.
I think that you're making some assumptions that may not be valid. We don't know if the mag drop problem is limited to new guns. The gun has been in production for only a few months, so there is no reason to believe that the process or the specs have changed.
The "old" mags that came with my gun were dropping and I assume that the "new" mags would drop if not modified by S&W, so that suggests that the unmodified dimensions of both sets of mags are inadequate. S&W sent me a replacement mag catch that I installed. It did not fix the problem, so I assume that its dimensions are the same as my old mag catch.
Based on the data that I have, it appears that the new and old mag catches and mags are inadequate as manufactured. The only dimension change that made any difference was made by hand to the new mags that S&W sent to me.
I think that the problem is that the high pressure and snappy recoil of the .40 cal cartridge pushes this design to its limits and the difference between holding and dropping a mag is tiny and within the manufacturing design tolerances. I also suspect that S&W did not account for enough frame flex in setting the tolerances for the .40 frames and mags.
I have already modified my old mags with a center punch, so I can't compare the unmodified dimensions to the modified dimensions. I also don't have calipers. However, I do have four mags that work now, so I'm happy.
This does pose a problem for potential purchasers. There is no indication at this point that S&W has changed the design specs of the guns or mags so any.40 on the shelf could be a mag dropper. Until S&W announces that a fix has been implemented, no one will know what they are buying. If S&W announces a fix, then they will need to issue a recall, and they haven't done that.
Disappointing. Expected more from S&W. But I love my Shield as long as the mags stay in the gun.
The "old" mags that came with my gun were dropping and I assume that the "new" mags would drop if not modified by S&W, so that suggests that the unmodified dimensions of both sets of mags are inadequate. S&W sent me a replacement mag catch that I installed. It did not fix the problem, so I assume that its dimensions are the same as my old mag catch.
Based on the data that I have, it appears that the new and old mag catches and mags are inadequate as manufactured. The only dimension change that made any difference was made by hand to the new mags that S&W sent to me.
I think that the problem is that the high pressure and snappy recoil of the .40 cal cartridge pushes this design to its limits and the difference between holding and dropping a mag is tiny and within the manufacturing design tolerances. I also suspect that S&W did not account for enough frame flex in setting the tolerances for the .40 frames and mags.
I have already modified my old mags with a center punch, so I can't compare the unmodified dimensions to the modified dimensions. I also don't have calipers. However, I do have four mags that work now, so I'm happy.
This does pose a problem for potential purchasers. There is no indication at this point that S&W has changed the design specs of the guns or mags so any.40 on the shelf could be a mag dropper. Until S&W announces that a fix has been implemented, no one will know what they are buying. If S&W announces a fix, then they will need to issue a recall, and they haven't done that.
Disappointing. Expected more from S&W. But I love my Shield as long as the mags stay in the gun.
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I called S&W and got my return label, will be shipping mine off this week. Hope I have the same luck getting it fixed as the others that have gotten theirs back! This gun is too fun to shoot to have such big issues. Thanks to all that are keeping the thread updated with their repair diagnosis'!!!
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