M&P SHIELD 0.40 CALIBER MAGAZINE DROP PROBLEM POLL

[Paints-n-cows]

I think that you're making some assumptions that may not be valid....

...and I assume that...

so I assume that its dimensions are the same as my old mag catch

I also don't have calipers.

I think that the problem is...

Assumptions??? I asked a question based on logic. Nowhere did I say that I think or feel.

I just asked for the dimension of the magazines that dropped vs. the ones that don't. Mine doesn't drop, some did until a magazine modification was made that increased their width at the cutout. A new magazine catch, in your situation, did not work.

Therefore (a+b=c). Are the magazines that are not dropping from factory wider than the serial numbers that are? Simple question.
Perhaps S&W switched vendors after the demand for the new weapon went off of the chart. Who knows?

But the answer about magazine width (if that comes to be the actual issue) may give future purchasers of spare magazines or those in possession of marginal magazines a tool to evaluate whether they may have a potential problem in the future.

If the magazines are straight-walled, a measurement above or below the magazine disconnect notch should be sufficient.

 

[Fabius]

The only reason that I mentioned assumptions is because when S&W returned my gun and the two new mags, the note said that they replaced the mags and that the gun was within specs. The replacement mags appear to have been modified by hand after manufacture.

That suggests to be that my gun, which is SN DXVxxxx, is within specs and the problem isn't an out of spec production run on the guns. It also suggests that as of two weeks ago, the mags available to S&W needed modification to work in a gun that S&W found to be in spec. So did the mags that came with the gun two months ago.

It may be that the "bump" is the permanent fix and all new mags will have them. I may pick up a set of calipers and take some measurements. The mag walls slope inward toward the front of the mag, so it may be tough to take measurements that will be useful to others.

 

[mcmerrill]

Just received an email that my .40 shield is on its way back, and due for delivery on Tuesday 8/28, will post info on condition and results.

 

[The_Unknown_Surfer]

Turn around time ?

Just received an email that my .40 shield is on its way back, and due for delivery on Tuesday 8/28, will post info on condition and results.

May I ask how long it took S&W to complete your repair?
They quoted me 10 business days plus shipping both ways.
Are they in the ball park with that estimate?
Thanks.

 

[mcmerrill]

Turn around time

May I ask how long it took S&W to complete your repair?
They quoted me 10 business days plus shipping both ways.
Are they in the ball park with that estimate?
Thanks.

I shipped it with their shipping label on Aug 9th, They shipped it's return on Aug 24th, and due for delivery on Aug 28th. Now, they just came off their 2 week maintenance shut down on the 13th, so there were probably a little backed up. If you count actual working days they had it for 10 days. So their estimate is fairly accurate.

 

[Gaelicdog]

They got my wife's on Friday and am hoping for a fast turn around. We bought this so she could put a few hundred rounds through it before a long motorcycle trip she has planned.

fingers crossed!

 

[Fabius]

I shipped mine on July 23 and received it back on August 17, so about three and a half weeks. However, if you take out the two week factory shut down, about 10 days.

 

[trueblue40]

Shield .40

I purchased another Shield .40 yesterday. The last one had the mag drop problem so the gun shop took it back. I took this one straight to the range after purchasing it and shot 50 rounds. The magazines dropped out on the first shot almost everytime. This is very disappointing. I had to replace the catch on my M&P full size .40 a few months ago. That pistol is only about three years old. It works fine now, but if that was a duty carry it could be bad news. I see alot of posts on this problem but I have not seen any recall from S&W. Waiting on a reply from them now.

 

[Fabius]

I'm disappointed that S&W hasn't recalled the .40s or at least told dealers to stop selling them.

 

[dfhawkins]

This is akin to a Practical Shooting match. The first two stages... can't miss. Then there's the third stage...

Sorry I gloated, but the first 200 rounds went without a hitch. But then, yesterday, without fanfare, the magazine dropped, round failed to feed, and I was fighting denial. The 7 round magazine never failed to drop after that. The 6 round mag seems ok... but I'm spooked.

The gun will go back to S&W. I'll continue to carry the 40c until it returns.

Off subject but, the Old Faithful IWB holster's kydex attachment allows carry of all my M&Ps including the 40Shield. Neat little rubber spacers adjust nicely.
Gun Holsters - IWB Holsters - Concealed Carry Holsters - Gun Belts

http://kampdixie.smugmug.com/photos/i-sQgSV2P/0/L/i-sQgSV2P-L.jpg

 

[Squeezics]

Brand New M&P .40 and it has a SERIOUS ISSUE

Hello everyone, I joined this forum because I just fired my New M&P .40 Shield this afternoon and I'll be damned with six rounds in the mag and one in the pipe the magazine dropped/popped out when I pulled the trigger! Thinking it was user error I tried it over and over again with the same result. It is the definition of insanity!!! I feel like I just made a big purchasing mistake! I'll be trying to get a hold of S&W tomorrow. Does anyone have a good number to reach someone who'll give a poo poo? Thanks a lot.

Frustrated in Montana!

 

[The_Unknown_Surfer]

Thanks

They got my wife's on Friday and am hoping for a fast turn around.

Thanks to all for the responses.
10 business days seems accurate.
S&W received mine on Thursday morning (08/23/12) according to FedEx,
so GAELICDOG I will let you know as soon as I hear anything about mine,
as yours will hopefully be on it's way back the next day.

 

[robkarrob]

I had my 40 in for repair. It took 5 weeks plus 2 weeks vacation time (June 22 thru Aug 14), for a total of 7 weeks. It was to be sent back to me on the last day before the vacation closing (July 27). But apparently they missed the FedEx pick up that day and my Shield sat in the plant for two more weeks. I did not send my mags in, and they did send my gun back with both new mags, so I can compare both.

I measured the width and depth, just above the catch slot. All four mags measure within a few thousands so they are all the same measurements. I checked all four mags and the only noticeable difference is the added bump, above the catch slot as the prior photos show. This is not likely done by hand, as they are exactly the same. I am a tool maker and can see the bump was done on a fixture of some type. It is possible to have the mag fitted into a fixture and a special punch inserted to form the bump with a tap from a hammer. But with the high numbers involved, they did it on a production line.

When the mags are made, I would guess they start with flat stock and form the mag in a progressive die. This is where all the slots, holes, and impressions are made, and the new bump was added above the catch slot. All the bends and shapes are formed in the dies. The mags are then welded together on the rearward edge of the mag. This little bump was all it took to fix the problem.

It is possible to closely duplicate the bump by hand. I will try putting a small punch in from the opposite side and forming a similar shaped bump on the two original mags. I should then have four good mags that will not pop out.

Bob

 

[Paints-n-cows]

I measured the width and depth, just above the catch slot. All four mags measure within a few thousands so they are all the same measurements. I checked all four mags and the only noticeable difference is the added bump, above the catch slot as the prior photos show.

Thank you Bob for the informative post. It does explain that a dimensional difference does not exist between the current mags and the ones that were issued with the weapon (other than the bumpout).

I sent you a PM with some other questions about dimensions.

 

[trueblue40]

Called this morning. They said to send it back and will be sending me the appropriate forms. I asked if they could just sendme the part(s) and he said it seems to be more than the mag catch. So we will see what kind of repairs they will make.

 

[The_Unknown_Surfer]

Email, not Snail Mail

They said to send it back and will be sending me the appropriate forms.

Ask them to send you an email containing the FedEx shipping label to return it.
I waited a week for snail mail forms that never showed up.
Had to call back in, and then had the emailed forms the next day.

 

[mcmerrill]

I received my .40 Shield back today, and this is just an initial report, It may be a week before I can get to the range, will post a range report after that. The repair report stated that they replaced the mag catch. Both mags have the "bump" that others have referred to. Now it takes the release button to be almost fully depressed to release the mag. More like my full size M&P's. They also replace both roll pins, as I had told them the front one would work its way out slightly after a hundred rounds or so. I had a very pleasant and professional experience with S&W customer service. The turn around time was better than I expected, They had my gun in their possession 10 days.
I will post further after the range test.

 

[Fabius]

So far, the only fix that seems to work is the modification to the mags shown in the pictures that I posted earlier in the thread. Seems like it would be easier, cheaper and faster for them to just ship two new mags.

I'm surprised at the inconsistency in S&W's handling of this. They seem to know what the problem is, but continue to "fix" other things, like mag catches.

 

[robkarrob]

Magazine update --- The punch method almost exactly dupicates the new mags from S&W.

I clamped my old (non bump) mags into a vise. Using a 3/32 inch punch I was able to knock the metal to form a bump, very similar to the new factory bump mags. See attached photos. Since the area of the bump is close to the corner of the mag, I had to pound the punch fairly had to get the metal to bend up. I bent it up a little more than the new mags, just to make sure I won't have any more drop problem. I tested the newly bent mags and they work fine, slide in and out easily. There is no interference on the inside. The magazine release button has to be pushed a little further in to drop the mag, which means it is being held in place better.

I found all my mags wiggle from side to side in the magazine well. There is at least 1/32 inch of side to side play. This only adds to the problem as the mag wiggles to the left side, then there is 1/32 inch less mag release surface area inside the mag slot. Instead of making the bump on the mags, the best fix would be to allow the mag release to engage deeper into the mag slot. S&W should make the mag release tab wider, for more engagement into the magazine.

I removed my mag release. Very easy to do. Just push the wire spring back and the mag release will fall out from right to left. Those of you with a later released Shield, that is not dropping the mags, can measure their mag release catch and compare it to my catch release, to see what is different.

Lighting doesn't show the bump very well, but the old mag (on the left) has a slightly larger bump than the new mag.

This picture is my magazine release. The magazine tab is on the left, slightly worn (shiny) from holding mag. It can also be identified by the .236 and .635 arrows pointing to the line at the top right corner of it. This tab is what fits inside the magazine slot and locks the mag in place. If S&W redesigned the mag release, this tab would be at least 1/32 inch(.031) wide or wider. The .236 would increase to .267 and the .635 would decrease to .604.

 

[insomniac]

Mag update -- The old mags can be made to work.

just as reported waaayyyyyy back in post #21

 

[Fabius]

just as reported waaayyyyyy back in post #21

Actually, insomniac, i saw your post before my gun was returned from S&W. When I opened the package and saw two new mags, the first thing I looked for was a modification of the mags along the lines that you demonstrated. When I saw the bump on the mags, my reaction was "Great, the gun will work now!" It does.

 

[Paints-n-cows]

I just sent Robkarrob a PM but I will post my measurements on here as well.

The first number is the measurement that he had on his that was dropping mags. The second number is the one on mine that is not (DXP serial number).

.098" = .095"
.236" = .257"
.635" = .608"
.961" = .960"

That .027" measurement difference in the distance in the "valley" is found in the thickness of the "thumb" on mine, the actual width of the release and the back tab.

Also, mine has a "1" cast into it. His has a "2". I would just about bet that if those who are dropping mags would check, their has a "2" on it and those that aren't will have a "1".

I would also bet that the heigth of the bumpout that S&W is putting on the mags is also about .019" of that same missing dimension. Obviously that should be easily verifiable.

And my mag release is totally metal that attracts a magnet.

 

[insomniac]

Actually, insomniac, i saw your post before my gun was returned from S&W. When I opened the package and saw two new mags, the first thing I looked for was a modification of the mags along the lines that you demonstrated. When I saw the bump on the mags, my reaction was "Great, the gun will work now!" It does.

Awsome! it's an easy fix. i just put another 100 rnds through mine this afternoon with no problems.

i love my 40 shield!

 

[robkarrob]

reply to Paints-n cows

You are correct. My mag release has a #2 on it, and I was having the mag drops. My Shield ser. # starts with DTX. I bought my Shield in mid May, so it is an early model. Your dimensions show that S&W remade the mag release and added just under 1/32 inch more length to the tab. This longer tab puts 1/32 inch more holding power into the magazine slot, which would stop the mag drop problem. This 1/32 inch doesn't sound like much, but since there is 1/32 inch of play between the side of the mags and the magazine well, the new mag release will eliminate the mag shifting over past the release tab and dropping out.

Now why would S&W want Shield owners to send their guns in, for a $5 part. Even with their FedEx discount, the round trip 2 day air has to cost them somewhere in the area of $40 minimum. Retail for us would be over $70. Then they have to pay an employee to pull the improperly engineered mag release and install the new one. On top of that the gun owner is without their gun for 4 weeks.

Sure I could understand that some people would rather send their guns in to S&W, as they would not want to undertake such a difficult part replacement (ha ha). But since it is such a simple process, all S&W would have to do is ask the customer "would you feel confident you could replace the magazine release, if we included detailed instructions?" Not only would this save them time and money, it would get the gun repaired in much less time.

I have the email address of several top S&W executives. I will put this question to them. I will ask why they are not contacting all affected Shield 40 owners and advising them of the fix. I will advise their response.

Bob

 

[Paints-n-cows]

Robkarrob,

Actually mine was made before yours. It is DXP and has a date of 4/2012 on the fired cartridge.

For some reason, they reduced the size of the tab in the later edition and that is why the later ones are dropping and the newer ones aren't.

Sure would be interesting to see which mag release that the 9mm Shields have in them.

And who knows why they wouldn't just put out the word. They have the database if you the new owner sent in his/her weapon in the warranty card. Perhaps liability is why they don't want the new owners messing with it.

Irregardless, this stupid little re-engineering had to not only cost them sales but has tarnished their reputation and took an otherwise outstanding weapon and reduced it to a questionable one for reliability. I really suspect that it boosted the XDS sales as well. That was one that I was considering before I bought my .40.

 

[insomniac]

You are correct. My mag release has a #2 on it, and I was having the mag drops. My Shield ser. # starts with DTX. I bought my Shield in mid May, so it is an early model. Your dimensions show that S&W remade the mag release and added just under 1/32 inch more length to the tab. This longer tab puts 1/32 inch more holding power into the magazine slot, which would stop the mag drop problem. This 1/32 inch doesn't sound like much, but since there is 1/32 inch of play between the side of the mags and the magazine well, the new mag release will eliminate the mag shifting over past the release tab and dropping out.

Now why would S&W want Shield owners to send their guns in, for a $5 part. Even with their FedEx discount, the round trip 2 day air has to cost them somewhere in the area of $40 minimum. Retail for us would be over $70. Then they have to pay an employee to pull the improperly engineered mag release and install the new one. On top of that the gun owner is without their gun for 4 weeks.

Sure I could understand that some people would rather send their guns in to S&W, as they would not want to undertake such a difficult part replacement (ha ha). But since it is such a simple process, all S&W would have to do is ask the customer "would you feel confident you could replace the magazine release, if we included detailed instructions?" Not only would this save them time and money, it would get the gun repaired in much less time.

I have the email address of several top S&W executives. I will put this question to them. I will ask why they are not contacting all affected Shield 40 owners and advising them of the fix. I will advise their response.

Bob

this is a great post Bob.

i reread some of my previous posts and i believe i came across differently than i would have liked to.

altering a firearm is not a thing most people are comfortable with, or are willing to do, or should have to do, and rightly so. my posts do not reflect this sentiment.

i feel that S&W should take this upon themselves and provide their customers with the proper remedy.

unforturnately, this has not come to pass, and so, shame on them.

 

[Fabius]

Also, mine has a "1" cast into it. His has a "2". I would just about bet that if those who are dropping mags would check, their has a "2" on it and those that aren't will have a "1".

My original mag catch has a "1" cast into it and it dropped mags. Not sure what the replacement mag catch has on it, (didn't check that before I installed it) but it dropped mags too until the mags were modified.

S&W sent me a third mag catch which I didn't install because they also sent a return label, so I just shipped the gun back. The third mag catch has a "4" cast into it.

I don't have the tools to take measurements to .001" so I can't compare the dimensions of the three mag catches.

My Shield was manufactured in June.

 

[Michigan Ron]

Probably a Liability Issue

You are correct. My mag release has a #2 on it, and I was having the mag drops. My Shield ser. # starts with DTX. I bought my Shield in mid May, so it is an early model. Your dimensions show that S&W remade the mag release and added just under 1/32 inch more length to the tab. This longer tab puts 1/32 inch more holding power into the magazine slot, which would stop the mag drop problem. This 1/32 inch doesn't sound like much, but since there is 1/32 inch of play between the side of the mags and the magazine well, the new mag release will eliminate the mag shifting over past the release tab and dropping out.

Now why would S&W want Shield owners to send their guns in, for a $5 part. Even with their FedEx discount, the round trip 2 day air has to cost them somewhere in the area of $40 minimum. Retail for us would be over $70. Then they have to pay an employee to pull the improperly engineered mag release and install the new one. On top of that the gun owner is without their gun for 4 weeks.

Sure I could understand that some people would rather send their guns in to S&W, as they would not want to undertake such a difficult part replacement (ha ha). But since it is such a simple process, all S&W would have to do is ask the customer "would you feel confident you could replace the magazine release, if we included detailed instructions?" Not only would this save them time and money, it would get the gun repaired in much less time.

I have the email address of several top S&W executives. I will put this question to them. I will ask why they are not contacting all affected Shield 40 owners and advising them of the fix. I will advise their response.

Bob

Bob -- My suspicion is that S&W would prefer to do the replacement themselves to avoid liability issues if owners screw it up somehow, doing the replacement themselves. -- Ron

 

[Fabius]

Bob -- My suspicion is that S&W would prefer to do the replacement themselves to avoid liability issues if owners screw it up somehow, doing the replacement themselves. -- Ron

Not necessarily. They sent a replacement mag catch to me without asking if I knew how to install it. Actually, they sent two. No instructions on how to install the new mag catch, just the new mag catch in a little plastic baggie with a shipping manifest.

I didn't ask for the mag catch. I emailed S&W customer service describing the mag drop problem and asking them to fix it. I received a reply telling me that they were sending a new mag catch.

Frankly, their response has been haphazard. They should have enough information now to standardize their procedures for fixing the problem.

I would be surprised if their marketing people don't monitor these message boards. It would be simple enough for them to post an explanation and instructions for gun owners who experience the problem. I have seen other manufacturers (admittedly smaller ones) do that.

 

[Bierliebhaber]

I would be surprised if their marketing people don't monitor these message boards. It would be simple enough for them to post an explanation and instructions for gun owners who experience the problem. I have seen other manufacturers (admittedly smaller ones) do that.

I belong to a FORD Forum as well, and Ford Customer Service has stickies and replies all over the place. Let's you know that they care, and are working at making every customer as satisfied as they can be. S&W needs to get on it.