M&P Shield Bodyguard 380 size comparison

[kris7047th]

Did you meet him at band camp?

What kind of a comment is that?

This happened 5 years ago Thanksgiving. The guy broke into several homes before he entered the house when the homeowner was not feeling well was in bed, heard a knock at the front door, then shortly there after heard a crash at the back door. By the time he went back for his gun and started at the stairs, the BG was at the bottom of the stairs and came at the neighbor who then shot him twice.

Here .. http://www.monroenews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080105/NEWS01/544912152/-1/NEWS

 

[Baddog]

The BG380 is not a 2 shot weapon it carries 6+1. Given the choice I would rather carry a .45 but they tend to be a little bulky and heavy to carry in my pocket. Like you say it is a personal choice.

 

[Baddog]

What kind of a comment is that?

This happened five years ago Thanksgiving. The guy broke into several homes before he entered the house when the homeowner was not feeling well was in bed, heard a knock at the front door, then shortly there after heard a crash at the back door. By the time he went back for his gun and started at the stairs, the BG was at the bottom of the stairs and came at the neighbor who then shot him twice.

Here .. Man shot during <br />break-in pleads guilty - MonroeNews.com

I knew of a guy who broke into a neighbors house, was shot twice with a .40 cal, ran out of the house and 1/2 way down the block before he dropped. He was hit in the left lung and the left hip. I hear all of the time that 9mm is not enough to stop. The .380 was meant for close up.

From your first post it sounds like the BG was a buddy of yours, if that was not the case then I appolagize.

 

[crracer_712]

What kind of a comment is that?


Here .. Man shot during <br />break-in pleads guilty - MonroeNews.com

I think it's an American Pie reference, speaking of which, when is American Reunion do out??

 

[kris7047th]

From your first post it sounds like the BG was a buddy of yours, if that was not the case then I appolagize.

Uh .. no. I spoke with the home owner the day after it happened while I was out walking my dog. The BG tried to break into the house next door to me, but I had three Bernese Mtn Dogs that are pretty loud when I let them out. I got home right around the time the BG threw a rock into my next door neighbor's back window. We are guessing that my dogs scared him off, and instead made his way up through the alley and eventually to where he was shot. The police found a duffle bag filled with stolen items from cars and homes.The bad guy was a drug user and habitual thief from a nearby town. So glad that he got sent to jail.

My point is that one should depend on the highest caliber possible that one can manage with consistent accuracy. For me that is a 9mm.

 

[maddtrapper]

There should be more reliance on tactics and awareness, caliber is not the only answer. If caliber was all that mattered you need to get rid of the 9 and get a 40/45. Or sell some guns and move to a safer neighborhood.

 

[Stu Honea]

It's certainly true that all caliber pistols have killed people many times over,and that's not even debatable.
However,the intent of the legally armed carrier should be to end a potentially deadly confrontation immediately by causing the "bad guy" to cease his hostile and aggressive actions.
Service calibers accomplish this best. Many years ago Jeff Cooper stated,and I quote:"Placement takes precedence over power." This statement might easily be misinterpreted to mean that small calibers are just as good as large calibers if your placement is perfect. That could even be true in some instances, but in all my years I have never seen anyone who could get perfect placement of their shots under an adrenaline filled moment every time. It just doesn't happen that way.

This is where the service caliber sidearm improves the odds for good guys.With modern performing,well designed bullets,the edge is definetely there. There are many of these loads available that perform with excellance from short barrelled handguns,giving on target results that are hardly descernable from the same load fired from a service size handgun. That is an advantage. You can up your odds of winning also by learning to hit fast without the use of sights
within 7 to 10 yards.
Having the skill to do this is well within the abilities of anyone with normal mobility,but one needs to train in this aspect of shooting in order to be proficiant at it.
Once again,the service calibers are best used for serious defense. It's been shown time and again in the last 15 years or so that with modern well designed ammunition the 9mm,.40S&W,and 45 ACP all achieve about the same result with well placed hits. This cannot be said for the smaller calibers.You're most likely to get not enough penetration with the small hollowpoints or not enough expansion to destroy enough tissue or vital organs fast enough to shut that individual down as rapidly as needed.
If you need to shoot someone,you need to stop him(or her)NOW. I prefer 9mm as I have seen first hand the results of shootings with several types of modern ammo,it carries more boolits,and is cheaper and easier to train with. I love the .45 too,it makes nice large holes,but I prefer more rounds on board.
You pays your money and you takes your choice.The human body is at once both fragile AND resilient,and handguns are all puny.period. Why not stack the odds in your favor?
And,anyone worth shooting is worth firing a burst into. They make the choice themselves.

 

[BuckeyeChuck]

Really guys .. you would stake your life on a small .380 as your sole EDC ???

This is, in my opinion, one of the two most ridiculous questions repeatedly asked on this, or any, gun forum. (The second is a close companion based on caliber, something like "Really guys... you would stake your life on anything less that .45?") Sometimes the gun/caliber snobbery simply drips off of posts.

For this ridiculous question to have any validity, it must assume a variety of things -- that I cannot shoot the gun well, or that it is incapable of stopping a threat, or that anything else I might carry can be easily concealed. Never assume. You make an... well, you know.

My answer to this ridiculous question is a perfectly sober "yes". My EDC is my BG 380. The reason is very simple: it fits in my pocket. I'm 5' 11" and weigh 153 pounds. I'm a professional who's not going to start wearing baggy clothes just so he can hide a larger gun somewhere. If the Shield fits comfortably in my pocket (of which I am a bit skeptical since the only-slightly-larger 9c is not a good fit) then I will opt to carry it over my BG 380. If it doesn't, then I will continue to carry a gun that I...

... have on my person.
... use in routine practice.
... can put shots on the target.

Last time I checked, this makes this gun a serviceable weapon.

Honestly, if some of you would lower your nose a bit, perhaps we wouldn't see so many of your boogers.

 

[kris7047th]

There should be more reliance on tactics and awareness, caliber is not the only answer. If caliber was all that mattered you need to get rid of the 9 and get a 40/45. Or sell some guns and move to a safer neighborhood.

Sir .. that was a bit rude and judgmental of me and my neighborhood. Like *nice* neighborhoods don't experience crime?

 

[kris7047th]

This is, in my opinion, one of the two most ridiculous questions repeatedly asked on this, or any, gun forum. (The second is a close companion based on caliber, something like "Really guys... you would stake your life on anything less that .45?") Sometimes the gun/caliber snobbery simply drips off of posts.

For this ridiculous question to have any validity, it must assume a variety of things -- that I cannot shoot the gun well, or that it is incapable of stopping a threat, or that anything else I might carry can be easily concealed. Never assume. You make an... well, you know.

My answer to this ridiculous question is a perfectly sober "yes". My EDC is my BG 380. The reason is very simple: it fits in my pocket. I'm 5' 11" and weigh 153 pounds. I'm a professional who's not going to start wearing baggy clothes just so he can hide a larger gun somewhere. If the Shield fits comfortably in my pocket (of which I am a bit skeptical since the only-slightly-larger 9c is not a good fit) then I will opt to carry it over my BG 380. If it doesn't, then I will continue to carry a gun that I...

... have on my person.
... use in routine practice.
... can put shots on the target.

Last time I checked, this makes this gun a serviceable weapon.

Honestly, if some of you would lower your nose a bit, perhaps we wouldn't see so many of your boogers.

wOw .. First off I own a BG.380 too. So does that un-snob me?

 

[kris7047th]

It's certainly true that all caliber pistols have killed people many times over,and that's not even debatable.
However,the intent of the legally armed carrier should be to end a potentially deadly confrontation immediately by causing the "bad guy" to cease his hostile and aggressive actions.
Service calibers accomplish this best. Many years ago Jeff Cooper stated,and I quote:"Placement takes precedence over power." This statement might easily be misinterpreted to mean that small calibers are just as good as large calibers if your placement is perfect. That could even be true in some instances, but in all my years I have never seen anyone who could get perfect placement of their shots under an adrenaline filled moment every time. It just doesn't happen that way.

This is where the service caliber sidearm improves the odds for good guys.With modern performing,well designed bullets,the edge is definetely there. There are many of these loads available that perform with excellance from short barrelled handguns,giving on target results that are hardly descernable from the same load fired from a service size handgun. That is an advantage. You can up your odds of winning also by learning to hit fast without the use of sights
within 7 to 10 yards.
Having the skill to do this is well within the abilities of anyone with normal mobility,but one needs to train in this aspect of shooting in order to be proficiant at it.
Once again,the service calibers are best used for serious defense. It's been shown time and again in the last 15 years or so that with modern well designed ammunition the 9mm,.40S&W,and 45 ACP all achieve about the same result with well placed hits. This cannot be said for the smaller calibers.You're most likely to get not enough penetration with the small hollowpoints or not enough expansion to destroy enough tissue or vital organs fast enough to shut that individual down as rapidly as needed.
If you need to shoot someone,you need to stop him(or her)NOW. I prefer 9mm as I have seen first hand the results of shootings with several types of modern ammo,it carries more boolits,and is cheaper and easier to train with. I love the .45 too,it makes nice large holes,but I prefer more rounds on board.
You pays your money and you takes your choice.The human body is at once both fragile AND resilient,and handguns are all puny.period. Why not stack the odds in your favor?
And,anyone worth shooting is worth firing a burst into. They make the choice themselves.

Some here need to re-read this.

 

[Lost Lake]

I get a kick out the people who don't think a BG380 is capable of killing a bad person, it will do the job just fine.

I have a BG380, and I carry a BG380 sometimes, but this report is from a study done by the FBI when they were choosing which weapons they would depend on to save their lives and it clearly states the .380 IS NOT a caliber that can be reliably depended on.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

So while you may have a .380, and you may like your .380, and you wouldn't want to be shot by a .380, the fact is the .380 is not very dependable as a man stopper. Period.

BTW, the report then goes on to say the 9mm, .40, .45 are all similar and effective, but none are as effective as a rifle.

 

[OpenSights]

One more country heard from.... I checked out several comparisons because I'm still looking for a 9mm that I'd feel comfortable CC'ing without a major wardrobe change . And they are all in the same price range. There are some overpriced options but....

I checked specs on the Glock 26, Kel Tecs PF-11 & PF-9, Taurus Slim, and the Rugers LC9 & SR9c. Here's my findings.

The M&P Shield, Glock 26, and Ruger SR9c are withing fractions of each other in size and weight, except width (Glock and Ruger are double stack). They also share the same striker fired system giving them a light, smooth trigger.

The Kel Tecs, Taurus, and Ruger LC9 are also withing fractions in size but are several oz lighter. The PF-11 is a double stack so it's a bit wider.

Oh, and I've owned them all and still own most of them. They have all been VERY reliable shooters. And I'm still CC'ing my Bodyguard and Kel Tec P32 as my pocket gun, both plenty lethal with the right ammo. In colder weather I carry the LC9 because it and BG have very similar grip and shooting characteristics. You need your CCWs to be a near the same as possible.

The PF-11 was my first carry gun, mainly because of budget reasons. While it performed flawlessly, and therefore a very good gun, IMHO, the trigger pull, veeeerrrryyy long reset and harsh recoil were the nail in the coffin for me. I started CC'ing the 9c, but as a plumber, it would not only print, but show all the time. I carried the Shield all day today IWB in a Minotaur holster with no problems. The holster has retention and the trigger guard is covered, so safe enough for me. Of course, once Raven Concealment Systems comes out with either a phantom or appendix holster, I'll be ordering one.

 

[maddtrapper]

Some here need to re-read this.

Some of us have real experience, training and have been in the trenches and dont need keyboard cowboys to educate us. Ive been doing my bit for king and country over 22 years, there aint no magical bullet.

 

[OpenSights]

Some of us have real experience, training and have been in the trenches and dont need keyboard cowboys to educate us. Ive been doing my bit for king and country over 22 years, there aint no magical bullet.

Been there too myself... just not as long of a stretch. Thank you!

That said, I have some very bad habits that were learned because of my time serving.

The civilian market, both equipment and training wise, will always be far superior in current times compared to what any bureaucratic committee deems to be the best for government workers. Military or LEO.

At least AFA handgun fundamentals, what I was thought, was not the most efficient nor the most effective way. I have been taking steps to correct this problem.

 

[IllinoisCCW]

There should be more reliance on tactics and awareness, caliber is not the only answer. If caliber was all that mattered you need to get rid of the 9 and get a 40/45. Or sell some guns and move to a safer neighborhood.

You are on the right track Maddtrapper. I get a kick out of reading theses posts. Lets just say i work for a company that trains LEOs (local to federal) and some military. Our mission is to increase the efficiency (success) rate during actual engagement. We teach both from mental and physical perspectives. LEOs hit 3% of their target at 15 yards, 8% at 7yards, and 13% at 3 yards under stressful conditions. The military is surprisingly only slightly higher ( different type of training). In most civilian encounters you won't have time to draw your weapon...if you're lucky you might be able to throw it at the subject. Our weak minds just don't think that fast. So other means need to be utilized to defend yourself.

I read these posts and get the impression that a few may have police training but most are gun lovers and range hounds who have no idea (but think they do) what it's like to defend your life or the life of others. You talk about calibers and stopping power....really? Until you have real life experience in a combat (civilian or military) situation and are actually trained to deal with these types of situations, please don't comment because your opinions don't matter. It's all 'I read an article and go to the range so I'm now an expert'...really??? are you kidding me? Please don't pretend to know how to handle yourself in a real situation because I can guarantee that 99% of you will fail...I don't care how much range training you have. You just don't understand (and never will) the state of mind of an offender and how they will predominately have the upper hand, especially in a home invasion situation. Your range time won't matter. I can count on one hand the people I would trust to be by my side during an actual encounter and none of them are LEOs...but i deal with people with unusual skill sets. Most people I have dealt with in my career and 49 years of life can't handle (mentally or physically) a real life encounter successfully.

Enough said....enjoy your fantasy posts. And please don't respond to this post unless you are qualified to do so. On second thought, please do. My colleagues and I need a laugh now and then.

 

[crracer_712]

Someone has the opinion that a 380 isn't enough fire power to trust your life with and some might think that's snobbery. Others talk about shot placement being the key and being more curcial than caliber.

That's the funny and true thing about life. Everybody has free will and at the same time everybody has different abilities. Toes seem to get stepped on easily and nobody is satisfied until they feel they've done their best to cast their belief upon everyone else. Someone is always going to disagree with someone else.

Everybody knows people like this in their own family and probably hundreds more that post on the internet. Sometimes it's best to let a person have their belief, it works for them, and just move on.

 

[kris7047th]

You are on the right track Maddtrapper. I get a kick out of reading theses posts. Lets just say i work for a company that trains LEOs (local to federal) and some military. Our mission is to increase the efficiency (success) rate during actual engagement. We teach both from mental and physical perspectives. LEOs hit 3% of their target at 15 yards, 8% at 7yards, and 13% at 3 yards under stressful conditions. The military is surprisingly only slightly higher ( different type of training). In most civilian encounters you won't have time to draw your weapon...if you're lucky you might be able to throw it at the subject. Our weak minds just don't think that fast. So other means need to be utilized to defend yourself.

I read these posts and get the impression that a few may have police training but most are gun lovers and range hounds who have no idea (but think they do) what it's like to defend your life or the life of others. You talk about calibers and stopping power....really? Until you have real life experience in a combat (civilian or military) situation and are actually trained to deal with these types of situations, please don't comment because your opinions don't matter. It's all 'I read an article and go to the range so I'm now an expert'...really??? are you kidding me? Please don't pretend to know how to handle yourself in a real situation because I can guarantee that 99% of you will fail...I don't care how much range training you have. You just don't understand (and never will) the state of mind of an offender and how they will predominately have the upper hand, especially in a home invasion situation. Your range time won't matter. I can count on one hand the people I would trust to be by my side during an actual encounter and none of them are LEOs...but i deal with people with unusual skill sets. Most people I have dealt with in my career and 49 years of life can't handle (mentally or physically) a real life encounter successfully.

Enough said....enjoy your fantasy posts. And please don't respond to this post unless you are qualified to do so. On second thought, please do. My colleagues and I need a laugh now and then.

I completely agree with what you quoted and said. I have a question. What caliber do you use daily for CCW?

 

[IllinoisCCW]

. The million dollar question and is the question I get asked the most. First, I'm an Illinois resident and can't carry when in Illinois. I am licensed in every other state. When I do carry I personally prefer the 9mm...right now, I train on only two...M&P 9c and the FNX 9. I just received the Shield and will start my training regiment and it will be in my rotation soon. I don't recommend more than two within a rotation but I spend 15 to 20 hours a week training (my personal training) I'm more comfortable , more accurate with the 9. I instruct people to use the caliber they are most comfortable with regarding action, ability to handle, control....then train, train, train. And just don't shoot at targets...create situational objectives..stance...positioning...lighting...stress control...breathing...draw...and on and on. I can talk hours on this topic...and i do

If your carry weapon cannot be thought of as part of your body than you are not ready. (My only issue with handing out ccw permits) I can present my weapon no differently than scratching an itch...i do without a lot of thought...its just instinctive...it's apart of me. I tell people to be, not just proficient, but expert with a weapon and be able to use it effectively and safely is a combination of mind and body...that's what we train to.

You can argue about what is the best caliber...an argument than will have no winner. I work with an individual that can eliminate a threat with a .22 faster than I can blink. Try having the caliber argument with him...I promise you will lose.

Not sure I answered your question.

 

[fmiq]

What is the criteria and who desides who the "EXPERTS" are?