M&P Sport II Accuracy?

[rockquarry]

Just something to consider before any modifications... it appears that many never shoot their unmodified, out-of-the box ARs enough to find out what the guns are capable of in terms of accuracy. However, a scope is pretty much mandatory for 100 yard bench rest accuracy testing unless you have the perfect vision offered by young eyes. The scope needn't have high magnification.

I've been shooting a Colt Expanse and a Colt 6920. Never fired an S&W, but I will assume they generally shoot fairly well, new and unmodified, other than the addition of scope sights. The Colts will group under 1 1/2" on a regular basis and sometimes well under an inch with select handloads and some factory match ammo. Not being able to shoot small groups consistently with good ammunition is my fault.

While these guns shoot well as is, it takes a decent amount of shooting to get used to things, including shooting from a bench rest and the almost six-pound trigger. To hurriedly change out handguards, triggers, etc. and installing a high-magnification scope without knowing a gun's capability might be an unnecessary and expensive shortchanging.

Too many of us subconsciously reason that a light trigger and lots of scope will make up for personal shortcomings: a lack of shooting skill and poor bench technique. That never happens.

 

[Brian in Oregon]

The quality of the ammo makes a big difference for group size. Groups will generally open up with cheap ammo and military ammo. Groups generally shrink with premium ammo.

 

[rockquarry]

Brian- That's exactly right, but I found good handloads will at least equal and usually exceed the accuracy level of Hornady, Winchester and Federal match ammo. I tried six, maybe eight commercial bulk ammos, 55-62 grs. Complete waste of money for anyone with a real interest in accuracy.

Anyone who has developed accurate handloads using the Sierra 65 GK and 69 MK will be disappointed in most anything else. I've had little experience with the heavier bullets. They may also shoot well.

 

[otisrush]

I know this post is about the Sport II. I have a Sport I. I'm presuming the Sport II changes don't make significant difference in accuracy.

I've gotten 1-1.5 MOA using FMJs. And just under 1 MOA using match bullets.

Mine isn't totally stock: Nikon P-223 3-9x scope and Geissele SSA-E trigger.

OR

 

[Brian in Oregon]

The Sport II made significant changes in the barrel over the Sport I. In theory the Sport I has a superior barrel, but from some threads I searched this is debatable from range results. I think the most significant difference is the change in twist from 1:8" to 1:9". The Sport II barrel favors the lighter bullets (40gr to 55gr with 75gr being about the max it can stabilize) while the original Sport could stabilize heavier bullets (up to 90 grains). In theory the Sport II should be more accurate with 40 to 55 gr bullets as faster twists over stabilize bullets, causing them to yaw the nose up at long range. On the other hand those shooting at these longer ranges will probably be using heavier bullets anyway, 62 gr and up. Personally 1:9" is the max twist I use as I've settled on 55 grainers for nearly all my 223/5.56 shooting. My non-AR15s in 223 are 1:12".

Here's a thread with debate on the differences:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p15-rifles/358030-mp-15-sport-barrel-change-1-8-5r-1-9-6-lands-grooves-pros-cons-any.html

 

[otisrush]

The Sport II made significant changes in the barrel over the Sport I. In theory the Sport I has a superior barrel, but from some threads I searched this is debatable from range results. I think the most significant difference is the change in twist from 1:8" to 1:9".

I'd forgotten about the twist change. The move from 1:8 to 1:9 happened in the Sport I - prior to the Sport II, right?

It's tough for me to double check - but I'm almost positive my Sport I is a 1:9. So I got one of the latter ones. (I've had it for......3 years? I don't recall precisely.)

OR

 

[Brian in Oregon]

I don't know if the Sport I changed twist or not. I did find a couple of old reviews that claimed it had gain twist rifling, but nothing to substantiate that. Maybe they were confused what 5R rifling is. I would think S&W would make a big selling point of that.

 

[mccollom405]

The photos I just dropped in the pics thread are from 2-19-17 which I was shooting Federal 69 grain match grade and hitting steel at 550 yards. 55 grains were hitting steel out to 400 yards and light breeze. That was the best I got from those weights but as stated earlier, its a carbine not a long gun and Im very happy with what I can get out of my Sport 2!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

 

[South Pacific Wesson]

Just bought a Sport II and was wondering what kind of accuracy I can expect from it? The only mods I plan at this time is a improved trigger and a free floated handguard and barrel and some kind of scope, what are Youall getting.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

nutnfancy had good things to say about its accuracy, but I've heard S&W are making the barrel to a different spec now ???

 

[C J]

Too many of us subconsciously reason that a light trigger and lots of scope will make up for personal shortcomings: a lack of shooting skill and poor bench technique. That never happens.

Those things do help but ONLY if you have put in the practice it takes to master shooting. People go on about trigger pull as if it was the key to shooting. Trigger pull is the key to shooting. Not the trigger itself. I've seen plenty of great shooting with bad triggers. If they are good enough to break at a consistent point, and nearly all triggers are, then all it takes is practice to shoot a gun like that well.

I'd much rather have a good trigger. Don't get me wrong. But the principles of shooting are simple. If you can pull the trigger consistently you can shoot well. And that takes practice more than anything. It takes less practice with a good trigger but it still takes practice.

We never had a gun with a decent trigger when I was growing up. We knew they existed and we even saw one occasionally. But they weren't our guns. Ours were the 6 lb. trigger kind. Yet we managed to learn to keep a pop can in the air with a .22 for 7 shots or more. We learned how to hit running squirrels in the eye. And we learned how to shoot stems in two so that nuts fell from trees. Shooting was almost a religion in my family. We had a trap range in our back yard but we didn't have a phone or running water. We had a spring where we got our water then carried it home. But dad bought a trap machine, which no one else had in 100 mile radius from where we lived, and people came from far and wide to shoot at our house. Dad gave us BB guns at 5 and we were shooting the real thing at 7. Shotguns at first because of the shorter range. By the time I got to the point I could shoot a shotgun I had already learned that trigger pull was important. I learned that on my BB gun.

Practice makes a shooter. Not equipment.

 

[Flash_80]

Ours were the 6 lb. trigger kind. Yet we managed to learn to keep a pop can in the air with a .22 for 7 shots or more. .

Seriously?

 

[mule69]

My Sport II with a 1-4 power scope shoots less than one inch groups at 50 yards from a rest. The scope is the only change I made to the rifle and I like the trigger just the way it is.

 

[rockquarry]

Not being critical; 50 yards is a good place to start, but even a mediocre gun with mediocre ammo should shoot well at that distance. Several 100 yard, five-shot groups will tell you a lot more.

 

[mule69]

I can not see a target at 100 yards and do not like walking that far. I appreciate your trying to be of assistance.

 

[Flash_80]

I don't like walking that far either. And I'm too cheap for a spotting scope. But its worth doing from time to time just to see.

 

[WVSig]

My Sport II with a 1-4 power scope shoots less than one inch groups at 50 yards from a rest. The scope is the only change I made to the rifle and I like the trigger just the way it is.

One would hope so.

Honestly shooting a rifle at 50 yards with a 1X4 scope is not a test of accuracy. Unless you are shooting at 100+ your groups are not telling you much about how accurate you or your gun is. Especially if you are shooting off a bench.

 

[Flash_80]

I'd go as far as saying that at 100yds a 4X scope isn't that telling of the guns potential either. At 4x, you don't have the greatest magnification from that distance, at least I don't. 12-18X and you can lock in on a very small target area. And as far as all that jazz about a true rifleman doesn't need a lightweight trigger to be accurate, well, thats a load of garbage too in a way. You don't see those benchrest guys jacking around with 7lb stock levers either. Yeah, a good shooter can hit with a heavy trigger, but he can probably hit better with a lighter pull as well. There is no hit to be made on someone for lightening up a trigger pull. I read that macho B.S. on forums all the time. Yeah, your dad can whip my dad and all. Whatever. (this last bit is not in response to posts above me, just a rant for whatever reason. I evidently got myself off on a tangent)

 

[marathonrunner]

Just bought a Sport II and was wondering what kind of accuracy I can expect from it? The only mods I plan at this time is a improved trigger and a free floated handguard and barrel and some kind of scope, what are Youall getting.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I have not been able to take mine out to a 100 yard range but I just dropped in a Velocity 3.0 trigger(the trigger is really 3.5lb) but almost as crisp as a Geissele SSE E. I also put a vortex Strike eagle so probably will get some great groups if I can do my job.

 

[C J]

I don't like walking that far either.

Take the word of a guy with a bad back that has trouble walking 50 feet. ATV - that's how I get to the bottom of the small hill where I set up my targets. I know it isn't practical at a range. That's the advantages of country living I guess.

 

[Westie1]

I agree less than 100yds is not a true test of accuracy, but I don't take issue with those that shoot at 25 or 50 yds. To me, I know the difference and take it for what it's worth.

Another thing on accuracy, is how good is the bullet and is it fired in a barrel that has the proper twist for the length of the bullet. There is a couple of posts in the thread referencing a Sport II for a friend that touch on accuracy and bullets. Pictures are shown of targets shot with two different 75gr bullets.Both of those bullets are over 1 inch long. That's why they're not stable. Weight has nothing to do with it.
JBM - Bullet Length List