M&P Sport With New Nikon P-223 - Range Report & Question

[otisrush]

This is really more of a Nikon question - but I'll throw it out here since it involves a Sport. Maybe folks here have input and can benefit from this - since I gather the P-223 is a pretty popular item. (I have the 3-9x.)

I had it (the scope) out for the first time today. On the plus side: With the very first shot, at 25 yds, I was on paper. I didn't even bore sight it. I just figured I'd try and see if it gave me a place to start from. Yep. All good.

I started working on 100 yds and I have to say I was a bit disappointed with my groups. They seemed bigger than I wanted. I was really getting frustrated with myself. Kept adjusting windage and elevation. My groups weren't settling down. I ran out of ammo and was packing up when I decided to take a photo of the new setup - just for good measure and fun. And then I noticed.......

The scope had moved forward in the mounts. I checked the mounting bolts and, sure enough, they'd come loose. So.......

Do they need to be Locktited? Or do I just need to be a bit more aggressive in cranking them down? On a YouTube video they talked about being sure you tighten them evenly amongst the four bolts in order to prevent any twisting forces on the scope. So as a result I must have been too careful when tightening them.

I'm using, by the way, the 2-piece Nikon P-Series mounts - the ones that have the forward sway.

Thanks.

OR

 

[Biomedchad]

I use locktite. Let it set up for 24 hours. Start with purple. The one for fasteners. Blue is stronger. I use blue but most may argue.


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[JaPes]

I use blue thread locker and make sure to tighten the fasteners in an "X" pattern a little bit at a time to try to keep it even. I also eyeball the gap between the rings to make it even. A Wheeler inch-pound torque screwdriver makes sure that the fasteners are just right.

 

[thecatch8]

Congrats on the new set up.....what kind of groups are we talking here? Do you have any pics? Optics just take time, the journey of it all is what makes it enjoyable. You will be hitting 1-2 MOA from 200-300 yards no problem with that scope in no time.

 

[otisrush]

The setup is nothing fancy: the P-223 on a stock Sport. It's tough to see on the target - but that's a quarter. So what would that be - a 2"-3" group?

Now - I'll admit I'm not a competitive shooter. But I am an NRA-certified instructor and I teach Boy Scouts how to shoot. So (he said not trying to sound cocky) I understand the basics of what it takes to get a consistent grouping. I haven't done any consistent 100 yd shooting with optics - but I certainly thought I'd be tighter than the pic. And although I was a bit bummed that I blew through a bunch of ammo before I realized the mount was screwed up - it did make me feel a bit better there was that kind of issue.

Oh, what a bummer! I *HAVE* to find another day to take this thing out and get it right. What a chore.

A bad day shooting is better than a good day working. LOL

 

[Rastoff]

That group is 3.1" and if it was done at 100 yards, then it is approximately a 3MOA group. Not bad considering the scope was moving around.

The problem with tightening a 4 point mount is that as you tighten one screw, another can come loose. 6 point mounts are worse. So, tighten them in an X pattern, but always go around all of them afterward to ensure none came lose. You shouldn't have to crank down on the scope mount, but it should be fairly snug.

Also, a scope can sometimes "settle" in the mount after a few shots. Thus, the screws come loose again. Loctite does not solve this problem. If you Loctite the screws in and the scope settles a little, then you have screws that haven't moved and a loose scope. This is much less of an issue with high dollar mounts, but that's why they cost so much.

It is my opinion that scope mount screws shouldn't need Loctite. I don't have it on any of my mounts and none have come loose. Even my .308 is rock solid without Loctite. Then again, I paid a little more for the mounts.

 

[otisrush]

Thanks a million Rastoff. Great info.

OR

 

[cyphertext]

When I worked at Academy and mounted optics for customers, we did not use Loctite either. Get everything snug, then another 1/4 turn to tighten down. We did not have anything to measure torque, although we had the specs for the Leupold rings we sold.

However, I didn't lap the rings there either, so take it for what it is worth...

 

[thecatch8]

That's not a bad group at all....you will get tighter for sure!

 

[bman940]

P-223 3-9 BDC 600

I agree, x pattern is a great way to tighten mounting screws and maybe even a piece of friction tape for good measure. Make sure both sides have about the same gap when you are finished. You can go to Nikon's Spot On Ballistic Program and zero your scope for 100 yards even at 25 yards, just enter target distance 25 yards and zero at 100. Spot On will tell you where your point of impact will need to be for the zero you choose. Once you get the scope mounted I would also see about trying out some different ammo just to see if that makes a difference in your group size.
I have been using the same scope you have on one of my AR's and so far I am still a big fan. Very clear, great light gathering and can't beat the price. Plus, being able to use Spot On for shooting past 200 yards, huge plus. Drop me a note if you have any issues after your next range trip.

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/bman940/P-223%203-9/p-2233-9.jpg

 

[scooter123]

If you are using quality mounts I don't see any need to use Locktite, it will just make an future tweaking a real PITA. These are grade 8 socket head screws and you can crank them down tight enough to put some permanent twist in a premium brand hex key without the screws breaking, so don't be the least bit afraid to crank them down good and tight. BTW, don't mean to imply they need to be tight enough to bend a hex key, just saying the screws can be tightened really really tight without the screw failing.

I'll also note that when you attach your assembled scope to the rail you'll need to make sure those screws are good and tight. I use a pair of pliers and a nickel in the slot for the screw to make sure they are well tightened. Because I have had a scope shoot loose when I attempted to do it with my bare hands. Note, don't get stupid tightening these screws, just make sure they are good and tight.

I'll also tell you up front to expect that you'll need to re-zero your scope anytime you remove it and then put it back on. I know these rails are supposed to provide a repeatable mount, that has NEVER happened for me in the real world. Good news is that the variation is typically only an inch or two at 100 yards but if you want your scope dead on perfect you'll have to do some tuning anytime you re-mount it.

 

[JoseVazquez76]

what magnification were you set on while shooting ? I notice a lot of people at the range like to shoot a 100 yards while on 9 power nothing wrong with that but the slightest movements on that power can easily throw off your shots.

 

[bman940]

I use a front rest and sandbags for the rear. Anything you can get to stabilize your dial in shooting the better. I prefer a front rest to my bi-pod and a sandbag for the butt stock is huge. That is pretty much all I need even though I haul a whole crate of shooting "junk" everytime I go to the range.

 

[Maddmax]

Just like lugnuts on your tires,you need to check ALL your scope mounting screws after installing them from time to time.

It SHOULD be part of your NORMAL preventive maintenance check for safety.

 

[otisrush]

I feel compelled to post a follow-up.....show what can happen when advice is so helpfully given here. Last night my son and I went to the range and had a particularly fun evening. After the above exchange I tightened up the mounts as described. I have not used Locktite. They're solid as a rock and have stayed that way.

I clearly had a flyer in the group below. I now know improving is on me - not the firearm. My son was hitting the spinner at 100 yds more frequently than missing it. We were hitting gongs at 300+ yards.

The Sport isn't a competition shooter - but it's exactly what I was looking for: A platform to have fun as well as practice benchrest shooting.

 

[bman940]

It's all about fun times! I have some of my best times at the range with my son shooting steel targets. Nice post!

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

Just make sure your scope is level in both axis before you tighten. If not, when you try to adjust for elevation it will also change your windage, and vice versa. Soon you will be like a cat chasing its tail, only you'll be wasting ammo.

I have mine mounted in a Burris AR-PEPR mount. I can remove it from the rail and re-install it without losing Zero...just make sure you put it back in the same notch on the rail. I never used loctite and it hasn't moved in 4 years of shooting.

 

[troglobil]

I was thinking about getting this same scope. I guess you are reccomending it as a good for the money purchase?

 

[BillyMagg]

I was thinking about getting this same scope. I guess you are reccomending it as a good for the money purchase?

I had a tough time with my AR as well, turned out my ASC five round mag was dinging my bullets as it chambered each round, 20 round Colt mag, and I was in business, after trying several optics, I settled on the Redfield Battlezone. Nice and bright, also a 3x9x42mm. The small bore of the .223/5.56 makes it very difficult to bore sight by mark I eyeball, well I should say by 58 year old Mark I's, although I do NOT wear glasses for distance, just readers, but that may be changing, LOL.

 

[JJEH]

Good stuff, thanks for sharing.