M&P TRIGGER JOBS ADVISABLE!
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bobkarno
Member
I would imagine that a trigger mod would be the least of your worries were you to use, or even just draw your gun defensively. The Apex DCAEK and the RAM is a vast improvement to the factory trigger, yet I don't notice a huge difference in the pull weight. What I did notice was that I am hitting exactly what I am aiming at (which I attribute to the greatly reduced over-travel) with a gun I used to consistently shoot low. So one could argue that the Apex made the gun safer in that I may be more likely to hit what I am aiming at in a defensive situation. I would say that if you put in the competition kit with the sub 3 pound trigger you would be taking a greater risk due to the higher likelihood of unintentional discharge.
THIS HAS BEEN THOROUGHLY BEATEN TO DEATH!
Please read this thread:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/concea...iability-modifying-gun-used-self-defense.html
Please read this thread:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/concea...iability-modifying-gun-used-self-defense.html
No offense taken.
Since you're new to the forum, you might not be aware that we try to be helpful here, and rather than ignore a repetive question, we direct the reader to the 62-post thread done recently on the same subject. That way you get a more complete answer, quicker.
Welcome aboard!
Since you're new to the forum, you might not be aware that we try to be helpful here, and rather than ignore a repetive question, we direct the reader to the 62-post thread done recently on the same subject. That way you get a more complete answer, quicker.
Welcome aboard!
Water-Man
US Veteran
I wouldn't worry about it.
chuck s
Member
...and you're responsible for every bullet fired from your pistol.
A 1-pound trigger is more likely to have an accidental -- sorry, negligent -- discharge than a heavier weight trigger.
Not sure where 4.5 pounds came from, but it's been considered the ideal minimum weight for probably 100 years. My M&P9 was setup for 4.5 pounds but the trigger reset was too light for me so I added the Apex carry/duty spring set for a very nice 5.5 pound weight.
-- Chuck
A 1-pound trigger is more likely to have an accidental -- sorry, negligent -- discharge than a heavier weight trigger.
Not sure where 4.5 pounds came from, but it's been considered the ideal minimum weight for probably 100 years. My M&P9 was setup for 4.5 pounds but the trigger reset was too light for me so I added the Apex carry/duty spring set for a very nice 5.5 pound weight.
-- Chuck
4lbs-5lbs is where I like mine for carry. Did you know that you can add the Apex Tactical Comp. striker spring and it will bring your trigger pull back down to to around 4.08-4.11? This is what I did.
C4
Reggie Dunlop
Member
You will find a lot of warnings in this thread, mostly from paranoid candyarses. The same guys who wouldn't hop up their car in high school because they were afraid they'd get in trouble, wouldn't drink a beer until they were legal age and probably never had relations with anyone other than themselves until their wedding night. Use common sense and you'll be fine. You will probably be better with your weapon too because you will practice more with a gun you enjoy shooting.
Did anyone read the last couple of posts on the thread quoted herein?
Massad Ayoob may be the most respected trial witness regarding handgun defense we know. He said regarding this very question:
What some are missing here is that attorneys know there is no such thing as a justifiable accident. This is where we get the prosecutor who changes his theory of the case to negligent accidental discharge, in hope of an easy win on Manslaughter instead of a high hill to climb for a Murder conviction. This is where we get the plaintiff's lawyer who fabricates an accidental discharge theory because homeowner liability will pay off for negligence, but not for the "willful tort" of an intentional act.
A trigger pull lighter than factory spec plays right into their hands, as does a deactivated safety device on a firearm. This is the kind of thing cshoff is wisely warning about.
We can't confuse how we think things should be with how they are, and like it or not, this is how things sometimes are.
ME AGAIN.
So Massad told us how an attorney can and will take your lightened trigger pull and contend you may have 'accidently' murdered his client. Perhaps if the trigger was stock, the deceased would be un-deceased. Now the jury can consider this win-win scenario! They can convict you on a lesser charge that your insurance will pay, and the family of the dead attacker gets compensated. In a jurist's mind, that may be the best way to put this case to rest and get back home grilling weenies with his kids on the deck.
You get a reckless homicide conviction because you modified your trigger.
Now before you get all bent out of shape, remember, we're dealing with lawyers here....
Massad Ayoob may be the most respected trial witness regarding handgun defense we know. He said regarding this very question:
What some are missing here is that attorneys know there is no such thing as a justifiable accident. This is where we get the prosecutor who changes his theory of the case to negligent accidental discharge, in hope of an easy win on Manslaughter instead of a high hill to climb for a Murder conviction. This is where we get the plaintiff's lawyer who fabricates an accidental discharge theory because homeowner liability will pay off for negligence, but not for the "willful tort" of an intentional act.
A trigger pull lighter than factory spec plays right into their hands, as does a deactivated safety device on a firearm. This is the kind of thing cshoff is wisely warning about.
We can't confuse how we think things should be with how they are, and like it or not, this is how things sometimes are.
ME AGAIN.
So Massad told us how an attorney can and will take your lightened trigger pull and contend you may have 'accidently' murdered his client. Perhaps if the trigger was stock, the deceased would be un-deceased. Now the jury can consider this win-win scenario! They can convict you on a lesser charge that your insurance will pay, and the family of the dead attacker gets compensated. In a jurist's mind, that may be the best way to put this case to rest and get back home grilling weenies with his kids on the deck. You get a reckless homicide conviction because you modified your trigger.
Now before you get all bent out of shape, remember, we're dealing with lawyers here....
Reggie Dunlop
Member
Again, and I really don't want to resurect that old thread, but, a justifiable self defense killing can not be persued as an accidental discharge killing because you meant to shoot your assailant!
Florida Shooter
Member
A trigger pull weight of 5.5 to 6 pounds, a trigger that better tells the shooter when it's about to go, tells the shooter that it's reset - all of this better than stock - what's NOT MORE safe about THAT?!
Prosecutor/plaintiff's lawyer: "So you KNEW you could improve this firearm so that it would NOT discharge so easily, it would TELL YOU when it was about to go, and it would TELL YOU when it was ready to go again . . . and YOU DIDN'T DO THAT?! You just didn't care that much about making your gun safer - DID you?!"
You: " . . . uh . . . well . . . I was told I could avoid liability by NOT doing all that. So I didn't do it, so as to protect myself."
Prosector/plaintiff's lawyer: "OF COURSE! You care more about your own wallet than rendering you gun to be more controllable by you! What kind of thoughtless gun nut ARE you?!"
Prosecutor/plaintiff's lawyer: "So you KNEW you could improve this firearm so that it would NOT discharge so easily, it would TELL YOU when it was about to go, and it would TELL YOU when it was ready to go again . . . and YOU DIDN'T DO THAT?! You just didn't care that much about making your gun safer - DID you?!"
You: " . . . uh . . . well . . . I was told I could avoid liability by NOT doing all that. So I didn't do it, so as to protect myself."
Prosector/plaintiff's lawyer: "OF COURSE! You care more about your own wallet than rendering you gun to be more controllable by you! What kind of thoughtless gun nut ARE you?!"
Did anyone read the last couple of posts on the thread quoted herein?
Massad Ayoob may be the most respected trial witness regarding handgun defense we know. He said regarding this very question:
What some are missing here is that attorneys know there is no such thing as a justifiable accident. This is where we get the prosecutor who changes his theory of the case to negligent accidental discharge, in hope of an easy win on Manslaughter instead of a high hill to climb for a Murder conviction. This is where we get the plaintiff's lawyer who fabricates an accidental discharge theory because homeowner liability will pay off for negligence, but not for the "willful tort" of an intentional act.
A trigger pull lighter than factory spec plays right into their hands, as does a deactivated safety device on a firearm. This is the kind of thing cshoff is wisely warning about.
We can't confuse how we think things should be with how they are, and like it or not, this is how things sometimes are.
ME AGAIN.
You get a reckless homicide conviction because you modified your trigger.
Now before you get all bent out of shape, remember, we're dealing with lawyers here....
Without getting into Ayoob's issues, most states have a castle doctrine to protect the shooter.
Nuff said.
C4
cshoff
Member
You are mistakenly under the belief that the circumstances surrounding any shooting you would be involved in would be black and white. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen in every case. Things happen; bad or inaccurate police work, prosecutors trying to make a name for themselves, bad eyewitness accounts, evidence that paints a less than accurate picture, etc. There are a hundred different reasons why your choice in making a modification could be called into question. On the other hand, if you DON'T make a modification, there is a 0% chance it could ever be called into question.
Tom Goodrick
Member
Without getting into the legal nuances, and at the risk of sounding like one of those "paranoid candyarses," I'd just like to point out that anyone getting a new M&P would do well to shoot a few rounds through their gun before getting a trigger job. Mine's pretty good as it came from the factory.
jon_e_mac1
Member
Yeah, my M&P9 trigger pull is very light for being stock. I don't have any gauge to tell me what the pull is, but I'd guess it's in the low 4# range. I haven't made any changes to it at all and would be fine for home defense or concealed carry.
I will take my chances with the "what if scenarios" especially in states with castle doctrines.
C4
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