New to the sight sorry if this is repeated. I can not get my m&p sport to shoot accurate I have had the rifle for a few years and it has never shot good groups it always throws shot way off. I have read the internet and everyone says the m&p sport is accurate but mine is not and I am not a new shooter I have shot all my life. Mine has the melonite barrel. I have tried all kinds of ammo and can not get it to shot straight. I have a scope on the rifle check to make sure it is tight. I really think something is wrong with the rifle. Any information that you all have would be a big help. Thanks.
m&p15 sport accuracy problems
- Thread starter haf1972
- Start date
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Not a whole lot of info given, what range, what ammo have you tried, was it bench rested. Are you accurate with other rifles?
What I would do:
Swap a different scope, I've see too many cheap Chinese scopes cause issues.
Remove and inspect the flash hider, look for copper marks inside the flash hider indicating misalignment. Is the barrel crown good?
Check the barrel nut, if it is loose it can cause huge issues with accuracy.
Clean the barrel thoroughly to remove any copper buildup.
Ammo try different varieties with a proper weight for the twist. Rack a few rounds through and look for damage to the bullet due to feed ramp issues.
What I would do:
Swap a different scope, I've see too many cheap Chinese scopes cause issues.
Remove and inspect the flash hider, look for copper marks inside the flash hider indicating misalignment. Is the barrel crown good?
Check the barrel nut, if it is loose it can cause huge issues with accuracy.
Clean the barrel thoroughly to remove any copper buildup.
Ammo try different varieties with a proper weight for the twist. Rack a few rounds through and look for damage to the bullet due to feed ramp issues.
I have tried m855 193 silver bear independence hornady v max and steel case tula ppu American eagle I can't remember all of them I have Blackhawk scope 1.5-5x32 rock river mount. Just shooting 100yds off a bench. I have browning a-bolt .300 win mag 1"-1.5" at 100yds three shot groups. When I shoot my AR it will shoot a couple shots pretty tight then one will be off 3inches or more or it will not group at all. I will check all the things you listed Thanks.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Can you post a target?
Let me see if I understand you. The first two shots are on top of each other and then a third will be more than three inches away from the other two. Is that correct? If you shoot yet another group, is is the same, 2 then a flier? Or are all the shots kind of wild?
Let me see if I understand you. The first two shots are on top of each other and then a third will be more than three inches away from the other two. Is that correct? If you shoot yet another group, is is the same, 2 then a flier? Or are all the shots kind of wild?
At the range yesterday shooting silver bear and independence. Shot a few 3 shot groups. Always one or two shots were wild. A couple times 2 shots within an inch one wild. Never consistent groups. Would like to think ammo not good but the rifle didn't shoot either ammo in a consistent pattern.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Do you have any mods to the gun? Upgraded trigger? Free float forearm? Muzzle brake?
No mods all stock. I do have .22 conversion kit that I have used a few times I don't know if that might have caused some problem. When I first got the rifle I tried shooting with the stock peep sight that come with the rifle at 50yds did not have any luck getting it to shoot consistent thought I just could not use the peep sight effectively put NC Star scope on and it did not help then I put the Blackhawk scope on sighted it in with silver bear and thought ok finally I got it I thought it was shooting pretty good but was not super accurate had not shot it for a few months until yesterday and bullets were all over the target. That is the reason I join the forum and posted the thread. I just cant believe it is ammo problem or scope or shooter. But I could be wrong. Just cant figure it out. Probably be a week or two before I can get to the range and take a picture of a target and post it. Thanks for the help.
Rastoff
US Veteran
OK, it seems that you're using decent ammo, have a decent scope and are shooting off a bench.
What kind of rest are you using?
What kind of rest are you using?
scooter123
Member
First, the behavior you have described is very often a result of less than stellar Trigger Control. Your Browning A Bolt has a trigger that is vastly more "shootable" than the stock trigger on an M&P 15 Sport. You have two options to correct Trigger Control issues. Option One is more practice. Option two is to install a better trigger more suited to precision shooting.
BTW, I have a Match Grade AR that will shoot to under 3/10 inch at 100 yards when I'm having a very good day and 1/2 inch on an average day. Because I was planning on a precision rifle I chose and installed a Timney Single Stage trigger that breaks at 3 lbs. 6 ounces. If you are willing to spend a bit more than 200 bucks on a drop in trigger I can recommend the Timeny Trigger quite highly.
Second potential problem area is your ammunition. Your M&P sport most likely has a 1:8 twist barrel installed, only recently did S&W go to a 1:9 barrel for the Sport. With this rapid of a twist rate you'll see a loss in accuracy with bullets lighter than 60 grains unless they have been hand loaded to a somewhat reduced velocity. In addition ANY out of balance issues with a cheap bullet will result in issues with Yaw and a significant loss of accuracy. To be blunt if you are going to shoot cheap ammo with 52 or 55 grain bullets you would probably see better accuracy from a 1:10 to 1:12 twist barrel.
I would suggest that you consider loading your own ammunition for this rifle. BTW, one of my sub 1/2 MOA loads is a 60 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip loaded with 23.7 grains of Varget with a CCI 400 primer. Out of my 20 inch Shilen barrel this load chronographs at 2950 fps and when I'm shooting well I can almost put 3 rounds into the same bullet hole at 100 yards.
The third most likely potential problem area is a "loose" barrel. Note, a barrel can be "loose" in more than one single aspect. First, the Nut that secures the barrel to the receiver may have not been properly tightened at the factory. Second is that the barrel extension may have been fitted to the upper receiver with too much clearance between the bore in the receiver and the barrel extension itself. In either case this is something that should be corrected by the factory unless you know a very good AR Mechanic who will do it as a favor.
Note, I recently put together a 300 Blackout where the barrel extension to receiver fit actually rattled. My solution to this particular type of "loose" fit was to wrap the extension with 0.0015 stainless shim stock with a tiny dab of Locktite. I'm still working up loads for the Blackout but currently the most accurate load I've found to date will group 3/4 inch at 100 yards from a rest.
BTW, I have a Match Grade AR that will shoot to under 3/10 inch at 100 yards when I'm having a very good day and 1/2 inch on an average day. Because I was planning on a precision rifle I chose and installed a Timney Single Stage trigger that breaks at 3 lbs. 6 ounces. If you are willing to spend a bit more than 200 bucks on a drop in trigger I can recommend the Timeny Trigger quite highly.
Second potential problem area is your ammunition. Your M&P sport most likely has a 1:8 twist barrel installed, only recently did S&W go to a 1:9 barrel for the Sport. With this rapid of a twist rate you'll see a loss in accuracy with bullets lighter than 60 grains unless they have been hand loaded to a somewhat reduced velocity. In addition ANY out of balance issues with a cheap bullet will result in issues with Yaw and a significant loss of accuracy. To be blunt if you are going to shoot cheap ammo with 52 or 55 grain bullets you would probably see better accuracy from a 1:10 to 1:12 twist barrel.
I would suggest that you consider loading your own ammunition for this rifle. BTW, one of my sub 1/2 MOA loads is a 60 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip loaded with 23.7 grains of Varget with a CCI 400 primer. Out of my 20 inch Shilen barrel this load chronographs at 2950 fps and when I'm shooting well I can almost put 3 rounds into the same bullet hole at 100 yards.
The third most likely potential problem area is a "loose" barrel. Note, a barrel can be "loose" in more than one single aspect. First, the Nut that secures the barrel to the receiver may have not been properly tightened at the factory. Second is that the barrel extension may have been fitted to the upper receiver with too much clearance between the bore in the receiver and the barrel extension itself. In either case this is something that should be corrected by the factory unless you know a very good AR Mechanic who will do it as a favor.
Note, I recently put together a 300 Blackout where the barrel extension to receiver fit actually rattled. My solution to this particular type of "loose" fit was to wrap the extension with 0.0015 stainless shim stock with a tiny dab of Locktite. I'm still working up loads for the Blackout but currently the most accurate load I've found to date will group 3/4 inch at 100 yards from a rest.
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Arik
Member
Don't take this personally but have you shot ARs before? Sometimes a new gun or rifle doesn't shoot right cause we have a,wrong grip or hold on it. I know for me I need thick grips. If I shoot a 1911 with flat thing grips I may as well be throwing grenades. Add some thickness to the grip and it's a different story.
Have you tried a,different scope? Maybe the scope itself is bad.
Silver Bear is less then ideal for precision target shooting. It's good general ammo bit you will never get close to 1moa unless the stars are in you favor.
Buy some match ammo. I know it's expensive but it will give you an idea of where you stand with match target ammo
Have you tried different weights? If it's all 55gr your rifle may do better with 62 or 66 or 70 or ......
Finally. I use my AR as a battle rifle. I'm not concerned with 1moa. However it's possible the rifle is bad/has a problem somewhere.
Have you tried a,different scope? Maybe the scope itself is bad.
Silver Bear is less then ideal for precision target shooting. It's good general ammo bit you will never get close to 1moa unless the stars are in you favor.
Buy some match ammo. I know it's expensive but it will give you an idea of where you stand with match target ammo
Have you tried different weights? If it's all 55gr your rifle may do better with 62 or 66 or 70 or ......
Finally. I use my AR as a battle rifle. I'm not concerned with 1moa. However it's possible the rifle is bad/has a problem somewhere.
Take in the yardage. Shoot it at 25 yards and see what's happening. I wouldn't be shooting at 100 unless my scope was sighted in, and you wouldn't have a scope that's sighted in without having seen this problem in the process.
Have another shooter try to replicate your problem. I shoot 193 in mind and it is accurate if I do my part. 855 a little less accurate. I don't shoot any steel cased stuff.
Have another shooter try to replicate your problem. I shoot 193 in mind and it is accurate if I do my part. 855 a little less accurate. I don't shoot any steel cased stuff.
I'm going to echo some of the comments above with respect to ammunition. You're not going to get much accuracy with Tula, any color Bear ammo, steel cased etc. Limiting your self to M193 ball type ammo, Federal or Fiocchhi M193/equivilent will both produce 1 inch groups (with a bolt gun). Probably some others, I just don't have personal experience.
Now then, as noted above, the stock AR type trigger requires some learning and experimentation. BTW, if you're shooting from a bench, that position (at least for me) causes problems in establishing a proper grip with the shooting hand. Try prone or sitting.
What I find works best for me is to have the edge of the AR trigger touching the crease at the base of the end joint of my trigger finger. You need to treat the trigger kind of like a double action revolver trigger. Try dryfiring and learn to establish a preload on the trigger of 2-4 lbs. By that, I mean you put a 2-3 lb pressure on the trigger and hold it while refining your sight picture. Then, your final press will be only another 2-3 lbs. Watch your sights while dry firing. If they move with the trigger press, you're jerking the trigger.
Now then, as noted above, the stock AR type trigger requires some learning and experimentation. BTW, if you're shooting from a bench, that position (at least for me) causes problems in establishing a proper grip with the shooting hand. Try prone or sitting.
What I find works best for me is to have the edge of the AR trigger touching the crease at the base of the end joint of my trigger finger. You need to treat the trigger kind of like a double action revolver trigger. Try dryfiring and learn to establish a preload on the trigger of 2-4 lbs. By that, I mean you put a 2-3 lb pressure on the trigger and hold it while refining your sight picture. Then, your final press will be only another 2-3 lbs. Watch your sights while dry firing. If they move with the trigger press, you're jerking the trigger.
I've read all your comments. You're an experienced rifle shooter. I am betting you may have a gun problem. First, I would try another scope and make it a good one. You know the scope on your .300 works. Switch it over and see what that scope does on your Sport. Use the best ammo you can buy. I will never understand why shooters buy junk ammo and expect good results. Try 3 different brands/types of US - MADE commercial ammo. If the gun won't consistently put 3 shots in 2 inches or less I'd say you have a gun problem.
My M&P Sport also has the 8-inch twist barrel and it shoots fine with about anything I give it. If using Federal/LC M193 it will usually outshoot M855 of the same type by a good margin. Regardless of twist rate, I don't have nor have I seen an AR that shoots 855 better than 193 if everything else is equal, at least at short range. 855 may move ahead somewhere down range but I have not seen it in person on paper.
BTW, have you thoroughly cleaned your barrel? (Yes, I mean thoroughly - no copper streaks?)
My M&P Sport also has the 8-inch twist barrel and it shoots fine with about anything I give it. If using Federal/LC M193 it will usually outshoot M855 of the same type by a good margin. Regardless of twist rate, I don't have nor have I seen an AR that shoots 855 better than 193 if everything else is equal, at least at short range. 855 may move ahead somewhere down range but I have not seen it in person on paper.
BTW, have you thoroughly cleaned your barrel? (Yes, I mean thoroughly - no copper streaks?)
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Thanks everyone for the info. I use sand bags on the bench. Next time I go to the range I will try some good ammo just to check it out and get someone to shoot the rifle. The silver bear that I am shooting is 62gr and the Independence 55gr. I thought about different trigger just don't think trigger is problem. Not trying to say the trigger pull is not important. I will check at shorter distance to see what is going on. I am new to the AR owned this one for 3 or 4 years. My uncle has an AR that I shoot well using silver bear ammo. I know that when at the range you will get a flyer every once in awhile but I feel that it happens to often for something not wrong. I do love the rifle it eats any kind of ammo I run through it never has had a malfunction. I know it sounds stupid to blame the rifle but I have tried a lot of different ammo and adjusted the way I pull trigger changed scopes still looking for answer we will figure it out if it is me or something mechanical. Thanks.
uncledoggle
Member
As others have said, seriously consider replacing the trigger. I have a Timney 3#s and a Hipertouch 24C that breaks at a little over 2#s. These, as well as quite a few others, are great for precision shooting.
MIBirdman
Member
All good suggestions for what might be causing the problem. Another thought, (which I learned by listening to an “old pro”) are you resting the actual barrel on the bench / sandbag rests? Resting the actual barrel vs the hand guard on the sandbag / rest can change the harmonics as you shoot. As the barrel gets warm (not hot like with a mag dump) the POI does change and the pressure on the barrel magnifies the “drift”. Sometimes we are trying to figure out so much stuff we forget the little things.
One thought and one question:
Have you checked your scope mounts and ensured they're tight? When I put my scope on I was shooting all over the map. When I was putting the gun away at the range that day it looked like the scope had moved in the mounting rings. It was loose. I tightened them down and things improved.
When you get the flyer is it consistent in its placement relative to the group? Does it always/typically show up in the same direction or location?
OR
Have you checked your scope mounts and ensured they're tight? When I put my scope on I was shooting all over the map. When I was putting the gun away at the range that day it looked like the scope had moved in the mounting rings. It was loose. I tightened them down and things improved.
When you get the flyer is it consistent in its placement relative to the group? Does it always/typically show up in the same direction or location?
OR
I don't either. You sound like enough of a rifleman to know you have a problem that you can't control. A little story. Years ago I was getting started with a new-to-me .340 Weatherby that I bought used, scope already mounted. It had a Weatherby scope that I didn't like but still it would shoot nice triangular 7/8" groups as regularly as you please with 250-gr Nosler ammo, if I was paying attention. Then I replaced the scope. I bought a "big name" high-quality scope for the gun - and thoroughly cleaned the barrel at the same time. Accuracy went to pot.
I fiddled around with the gun for several weeks thinking that it just shot better with a dirty barrel but it never settled down again. I finally got it twigged that the telescope was behaving badly and sent it to the manufacturer for a check-up. They called and told me the scope was fine, they had "cleaned and adjusted it" and were sending it back to me. I re-mounted it and the rifle still shot 3-4 inch groups. Great!
I re-mounted the Weatherby scope and the gun went back to shooting 3/4"-7/8" groups. (To the manufacturer's credit, once I told them this story they had me send their scope back and they sent a brand new one, which solved the problem.)My point here is if after you have carefully considered everything and your experience tells you something is wrong, there probably is. Before you spend $200 on a trigger, send it back to S&W and see what they say. But don't base your thinking on "anything-Bear" ammunition.
cyphertext
US Veteran
If it were me, I would remove the scope and go back to irons. Get some ammo and a buddy who can shoot with irons and head to the range. Start at 25 yards and see if you can get good groups. If you can, then move out to 50... If you aren't grouping, let the buddy shoot it.
If you are getting groups at 50 yards with the irons, then you know it was something to do with the scope. If you can't group but your buddy can, it's you cowboy! If neither of you can group, then it is a rifle problem...
If you are getting groups at 50 yards with the irons, then you know it was something to do with the scope. If you can't group but your buddy can, it's you cowboy! If neither of you can group, then it is a rifle problem...
I am going to due all the recommendation you all suggested bought some American Eagle 55gr fmj and Varmageddon by Nosler 55gr FB tip. Also I talked to the gun range (indoor 25yds)and they are going to check the rifle make sure everything is tight and clean. Hopefully I will have a good report by the end of the week. Thanks for all the info.
