m&p15 sport explodes!!!

[zeroed_in]

i was browsing youtube and found this...
i have one myself, but no problems!


S&W M&P 15 Sport Rifle Catastrophic Failure (exploding) - YouTube

 

[JaPes]

From what I saw, I spy with my untrained eye....

It's called a squib. It's when a cartridge's propellant is undercharged, out of spec. There is not enough propellant to push the projectile out of the barrel & it's stuck in there.


Mistake #1

He admits to using Miltary Ballistics Industries ammo. That's re-manufactured ammo, a.k.a. someone else's bulk reloads. I've been told that if you're going to shoot reloads, only shoot your reloads.

Mistake #2

In the video, the undercharged reload didn't provide enough gas to fully cycle the bolt. You can tell he felt it, but didn't recognize it for what it was. The low charge provided just enough energy to eject the spent case, strip a fresh round, but not reset the trigger.

Mistake #3

He then manually cycles the bolt & chambers a fresh round. Tap, rack, bang. Just like you see in all the tacti-cool videos on the internet.

He doesn't pay attention. A properly charged to spec round will provide the energy to fully cycle the bolt,eject a spent case, feed a fresh round, and reset the trigger.

Mistake #4.

He ignores all the tell-tale signs that you may have a squib stuck in your barrel & pulls the trigger anyways. KABOOM! I definitely saw the upper receiver blow up. I'm confident that if the barrel didn't blow, it's definitely bulged.


While shooting a handgun, I had a WWB squib. The recoil impulse was too soft. It didn't feel right. There was just enough energy to barely cycle the slide & chamber a fresh round.

I dropped the mag, manually cycled the slide to eject the round. Out of sheer luck for a then newb pistol shooter, I poked a bic pen down the muzzle & found out first hand what a squib is.

Anytime I feel that something is "off" when shooting at the range, I will always err on the side of caution, stop, and take the time to inspect the firearm. Call me silly, but I want to walk out of the range in the same physical condition as when I walked in.

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

That was my initial reaction to the video...basically operator error. Just lucky it was only the gun that suffered any damage.

 

[jwalts27]

You'll hear from people who reload their own ammo or buy reloaded ammo getting squib fires. I have had a few myself with my pistol. Normally you know something is up because the gun wont rack fully. Can be dangerous if you try to force a round into the chamber and commence firing.

 

[Gunslinger808]

It's not just reloads, I have a M-4 that currently has a round stuck in the barrel about an inch from the muzzle.
The only saving grace is that there wasn't enough charge to cycle the action as it was on full auto when it happened.
Happenec with new manufacture Federal Lake City XM855.

 

[JaPes]

That was my initial reaction to the video...basically operator error. Just lucky it was only the gun that suffered any damage.

Operator error... Operator inattentiveness... Operator paying attention to trying to look cool on video more than paying attention to the rifle...

You'll hear from people who reload their own ammo or buy reloaded ammo getting squib fires. I have had a few myself with my pistol. Normally you know something is up because the gun wont rack fully. Can be dangerous if you try to force a round into the chamber and commence firing.

It's more than a possibility of being dangerous, it is dangerous.

I don't reload ammo yet. I've been looking into it. I realized I made a blanket statement about reloads. I feel I have to qualify my statement.

1. Rolled your own reloads. I'm in control. I'm the one who's cleaned, trimmed, & inspected the case. I'm the one who reloaded. If due to my own inattentive negligence I create an out of spec round that initiates a catastrophic failure, then that's my problem. The overriding need to keep my hands, arms, face, eyes intact is prime motivation to make sure I'm doing the job right. Good to go, shoot them reloads.

2. Reloads from a bigger reloaded ammo manufacturer. Depends on their warranty. Depends on the value of their business. If I have to sue them for damages, do they have insurance or assets at a level to cover their negligence? Depending on the answers, maybe shoot those reloads.

3. Gun show reloads. If you've been to a gun show, you'll see the guy at a table selling his reloads. If one of his rounds causes a catastrophic failure and you sue for damages, do you really think he has insurance, material assets, financial assets to pay up? I consider this to be an unacceptable risk, and never buy gun-show reloads.

4. Friend reloads & offers you a few. This is a pure judgement call. You know your friend and whether or not they are attentive, meticulous, organized, and focused enough to produce reliable reloads. I won't ever shoot a friend's reloads. If something goes wrong enough, it can end the friendship. I value a friend over saving a few cents per round.

 

[JaPes]

It's not just reloads, I have a M-4 that currently has a round stuck in the barrel about an inch from the muzzle.
The only saving grace is that there wasn't enough charge to cycle the action as it was on full auto when it happened.
Happenec with new manufacture Federal Lake City XM855.

Holy shart X 100 because it was on full auto. Thank god you didn't get hurt.

This is a good reminder to always pay attention. If the firearm doesn't go bang when it should go bang and you're not in a life or death situation, stop shooting & inspect the firearm.

Time to find a wood dowel & tap that squib out.

 

[Gunslinger808]

I was lucky and thankfully alert, I started to do the tap, rack, bang, drill but something wasn't quite right.
Cleared it and ran a cleaning rod down it, got the cold sweat when it went *clink* rather than going through!

 

[JaPes]

Good catch Gunslinger!

I've learned to trust my gut instinct when it gives me the "that's not right" warning.

 

[TangoFoxtrot]

Yep sounds like Operator error. We all have to pay attention when running these rifles. A rifle can be replaced an eye cannot!

 

[smddb]

wow, I'm new to AR's and thats pretty scary to me!

 

[rojodiablo]

wow, I'm new to AR's and thats pretty scary to me!

Well, do not think that this particular situation is common, nor is it isolated to the M&P 15. ANY rifle subjected to a squib will be pretty close to ruined, and the risk of personal damage is fairly high when any gun blows up in your face.
Long rifles (30-06, etc) rarely have the issue, because people shooting them are generally looking for their shot placement. Upon hearing and feeling an odd shot, and not seeing a contact on the target, it is often realized what happened.
Target pistols and semi auto rifles with their fire rates usually bring on this misery through quick and repeated shooting scenarios, with little real cognizant focus on each shot.
This is a big reason why I rather shoot Wolf/WPA cheap steel cased ammo rather than buying bulk reload ammunition in the AR. It's a matter of odds; with me running over 1,200 rounds a month through an AR, the chances of meeting up with a bad reload are a LOT higher than buying less expensive factory ammo that is a never been fired unit.

BTW, you think an AR squib is bad, imagine for a second what a 338 RUM does when this happens. I saw that rifle.......not good. The bolt smashed its' way up and backwards as the receiver held so much of the pressure in, it was incredible. Split the barrel, blew the stock apart on bottom, barrel and action jumped clear up and out of the stock. The shooters' hand was pretty much removed where he was supporting the rifle underneath. Real bad.

 

[jeeps]

Can happen to any gun using underpowered ammo out of spec. Bullet stuck in barrel = bang no gun. When it goes pop and not bang unload and check barrel for stuck bullet.

 

[oneyeopn]

Wow there is some great advice here in just a few sentences.

 

[Jagerpapier]

I was shocked to see such a thing. I'd heard of what y'all are calling 'squibs', but seen nothing like this! My father tells a horror story. At OCS in 1966 someone in his class lost an eye to a 'squib' using an M-14. Just something I thought to add. Be careful and stay well!

 

[TangoFoxtrot]

Can happen to any gun using underpowered ammo out of spec. Bullet stuck in barrel = bang no gun. When it goes pop and not bang unload and check barrel for stuck bullet.

Absolutely!

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

Can happen to any gun using underpowered ammo out of spec. Bullet stuck in barrel = bang no gun. When it goes pop and not bang unload and check barrel for stuck bullet.

From the video, I can't tell that the bad round sounded any different than the ones before it. My hearing is not great, but I could not tell anything. The only warning sign (to me at least) was the action not cycling fully. I am glad this video was posted. It's good to be reminded of this possibility.

 

[Dragon88]

From the video, I can't tell that the bad round sounded any different than the ones before it. My hearing is not great, but I could not tell anything. The only warning sign (to me at least) was the action not cycling fully. I am glad this video was posted. It's good to be reminded of this possibility.

Besides the report, the recoil would also feel different on a grossly underpowered round. If this guy had been paying attention to shooting instead of trying to show off for the camera, he probably would have caught it. Instead he did his tacticool tap-rack-BANG!!!!!, but the bang was a little larger than he was anticipating...

 

[JaPes]

While we're on the topic of KB's caused by out-of-spec ammo...

I built a budget AR within the same price range as a S&W M&P Sport. I'm sure that I'm not the only one who received the "build one yourself" advice when deliberating purchasing the S&W M&P 15-Sport. Then when you bought one, you got the "you could have gotten more if you built one" comment. I wanted to see for myself.

I bought a 14.5" w/pinned flash hider from a local shop, RGuns. I was there today, and shop personnel advised me that there is a bad batch of Federal/Lake city XM193 out in the marketplace.

It has come to our attention that the Federal/Lake City (LC) XM193 ammunition currently available on the commercial market is displaying severe quality control issues. There have been numerous cases of overpressure and primer issues. The overpressure is severe enough to cause gas ring blow outs and extraction difficulties. Primers have been reported to fall out and jam lower receiver components.

(Source Link: Welcome to the RGUNS Internet Storefront)

Just an F.Y.I.

Also...here it is all complete.

To keep it S&W forum appropriate: I repurposed the M4 butt stock, pistol grip, & rear sight from my 15-Sport to this rifle.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

It's not just reloads, I have a M-4 that currently has a round stuck in the barrel about an inch from the muzzle.
The only saving grace is that there wasn't enough charge to cycle the action as it was on full auto when it happened.
Happenec with new manufacture Federal Lake City XM855.

I just bought a batch of this. You're making me nervous. I've heard it's good stuff. Hopefully yours was an isolated event.

 

[rojodiablo]

I just bought a batch of this. You're making me nervous. I've heard it's good stuff. Hopefully yours was an isolated event.

Very highly unlikely with Federal ammo. If the 183 has a bad lot, then it's possible that was the ammo at issue, and not the 855.
But really, it CAN happen with any ammo, new or reloaded. It's just far likelier to happen with reloads.
Shoot with confidence; just pay attention to what is really going on when ammo starts flying downrange.

 

[Capt Crunch]

So, just curious...I know it's rare but how would you remove a squib if this happened? Just take it straight to a gunsmith or can you safely remove it yourself? And is that pretty much going to kill your barrel?

 

[Mustang5L5]

You can tap it out with a wooden dowel.



Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk

 

[Gunslinger808]

I just bought a batch of this. You're making me nervous. I've heard it's good stuff. Hopefully yours was an isolated event.

Yeah, it's LC XM855, I still have about 4000 rds left and I'll keep shooting it.
Considering I've already fired about 8000 rds of it, I put it down to just one of those things that happen.
I've seen all sorts of issues with every respectable brand of ammo, from primers in backwards to bullets seated where the neck was peeled back.
I wouldn't be to concerned with it, even the best Quality Control can miss one (and they do).
As for getting the bullet out, I used a brass rod and then inspected the barrel for bulges and cracks with a bore scope and found no evidence of damage.

 

[Splittiebus66]

The shooter took down the video of himself trashing the Sport. He claimed the melonite coating in the chamber caused the bullet to hang up and blow up the rifle.

 

[rojodiablo]

The shooter took down the video of himself trashing the Sport. He claimed the melonite coating in the chamber caused the bullet to hang up and blow up the rifle.

Well, read up on Melonite. It's a process, not really an application or coating. More commonly known as 'Salt Carbuerizing'.
He's mistaken and does not understand how the Melonite process is applied.
Unlike chroming, it does not add anything at all material-wise to the barrel. This is why Melonite barrels are generally referred to as being more accurate than a chrome lined barrel.

 

[Nacho Man]

so when he pulled the trigger and click, the primer went off with no ignition of the powder and wedged the bullet in the barrel slightly forward of the chamber? im curious, i shoot my ar alot and don't want my rifle to detonate like that. or was the last round he shot before the click didn't have sufficient charge and the bullet never exited the barrel.

 

[Gunslinger808]

so when he pulled the trigger and click, the primer went off with no ignition of the powder and wedged the bullet in the barrel slightly forward of the chamber? im curious, i shoot my ar alot and don't want my rifle to detonate like that. or was the last round he shot before the click didn't have sufficient charge and the bullet never exited the barrel.

Exactly, there was enough charge that the bullet went far enough down the barrel to allow the next round to chamber.
The subsequent round was a full power round and the gas/pressure had nowhere to go, so it exited at the weakest point.

 

[JaPes]

so when he pulled the trigger and click, the primer went off with no ignition of the powder and wedged the bullet in the barrel slightly forward of the chamber? im curious, i shoot my ar alot and don't want my rifle to detonate like that. or was the last round he shot before the click didn't have sufficient charge and the bullet never exited the barrel.

The first cartridge was most likely under charged (in shooting vernacular it's called a squib). The under charged cartridge didn't provide enough energy to propel the projectile all the way out of the barrel.

It had enough energy to partially cycle the bolt far enough to eject the spent case & maybe partially chamber a fresh round. Looked to me like the bolt didn't have enough rearward movement to reset the trigger.

Shooter then tap/rack/banged a fresh round into full battery & pulled the trigger.

Barrel obstructionl + ignition of cartridge behind it = catastrophic failure.

Here are some examples:

Rifle burst test - Remington, Browning, Sako, Blaser, Mannlicher, Antonio Zoli, Howa, Tikka - YouTube

Gun Blows Up in Face! He should have used Bore Tex! - YouTube

Here's a different video. This one is a barrel obstruction on an AR platform. Inexperienced or inattentive shooter tap/racks/bangs & pounds on a forward assist multiple times, ignores the warning signs, and BOOM! (Just noticed that he inserts mag, pounds on the FA, then charges the rifle.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpI

*Just noticed that he inserts mag, pounds on the FA when there is no round present, then charges the rifle.*

As I've posted earlier, I've only experienced a squib once while shooting a pistol. I got a pop. The slide partially cycled enough to eject a spent case & chamber a new one.

The entire firing cycle felt weak. It didn't feel right.

I dropped mag and manually cycled slide to eject live round. I didn't know what had happened. By sheer dumb luck, for some reason I tried to push a Bic pen down the muzzle and stumbled upon the obstruction.

Tapped it out with a wood dowel & a hammer.

If for any reason something doesn't feel right, stop shooting, safe & clear the firearm, and inspect it.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

The shooter took down the video of himself trashing the Sport. He claimed the melonite coating in the chamber caused the bullet to hang up and blow up the rifle.

Someone should tell him that it's not a coating. Interesting theory he has though.