M&P45 - MA-compliant+Apex or 48 State?

[Squarebutt]

Another reason to buy the new MA compliant model is the lifetime warranty for the original owner. Keep the original trigger parts in case you need to send it back to Roosevelt Ave. Good luck in your quest. I'm out in western MA, and I'll keep an eye out, too.

 

[Johnmuratore]

TTSH
Check Bob's Guns and Archery in Webster, MA.
He's got a pretty good inventory and I got my 45c there a short while ago. If I'm not mistaken, he had a couple of the full-sized 45s in stock. He also can do the Apex work if you prefer.

 

[TTSH]

Another reason to buy the new MA compliant model is the lifetime warranty for the original owner. Keep the original trigger parts in case you need to send it back to Roosevelt Ave. Good luck in your quest. I'm out in western MA, and I'll keep an eye out, too.

Check Bob's Guns and Archery in Webster, MA.
He's got a pretty good inventory and I got my 45c there a short while ago. If I'm not mistaken, he had a couple of the full-sized 45s in stock. He also can do the Apex work if you prefer.

Thanks guys. Bob's is a good place and I hope to do some business with them someday. Their prices can be very competitive when they run their sales.

Not having sent any guns back to S&W recently, I'm not sure how strictly the "original owner" thing is enforced. And as mentioned above, it's also not clear to me what the Apex kit might do to the lifetime factory warranty. You could make a pretty good case that I might be better off just buying the free state gun (albeit pre-owned) and leaving it intact if I can live with the free state trigger vs. the Apex kit.

Regardless, I think I'm going to stick to my plan for now and either wait for my preferred dealer to get them back in stock *or" find a dealer who will do an incoming transfer without a big hassle or a crazy fee. Money for this purchase is very tight. Conversely, time is on my side for this one.

 

[jb2009]

Hello, What part of the state are you in ?
I know nothing about the M&P 45, but i had a hankering for a Walther PPS..
As I often do, I call around gun shops, bingo, one in stock out comes the cc
Big mistake, It would be a couple days before I could go pick up the gun..
I arrive and checking the gun over, trigger felt terrible..
No lie, dealer pulled out scale, 16.5# yowsa,,,I had heard they were bad
Just not that bad, I knew they made two differant sears and was thinking
That I could get one and trigger job....bottom line...Not one person would
Touch the trigger, Nor would Smith sell me the light sear...!!
I have no idea how complicated the M&P trigger is..
But you may want to take this into consideration...John

 

[TTSH]

Hello, What part of the state are you in ?
I know nothing about the M&P 45, but i had a hankering for a Walther PPS..
As I often do, I call around gun shops, bingo, one in stock out comes the cc
Big mistake, It would be a couple days before I could go pick up the gun..
I arrive and checking the gun over, trigger felt terrible..
No lie, dealer pulled out scale, 16.5# yowsa,,,I had heard they were bad
Just not that bad, I knew they made two differant sears and was thinking
That I could get one and trigger job....bottom line...Not one person would
Touch the trigger, Nor would Smith sell me the light sear...!!
I have no idea how complicated the M&P trigger is..
But you may want to take this into consideration...John

I am in Eastern MA, and yes... the triggers on the MA-compliant guns are horrible. Hence my consideration of that free state gun or the need to install an Apex kit.

 

[jb2009]

Not that I am a fan of them, but seems quite a few police return glocks in 45 auto are hitting the dealers in Mass....I am not sure how the trigger is on them or if they are modified to the " cant pull stage "
But that might be an option....John

 

[formernuke]

Having a M&P with the Apex trigger (I also live in MA) and having tried an M&P from a free state without the Apex (free state factory trigger) I would go for the new one with the Apex kit.

First you are getting a new gun and second the trigger will be better.

Depending on where you live I might know a good gunsmith to install the kit, let me know if your interested.

 

[TTSH]

Not that I am a fan of them, but seems quite a few police return glocks in 45 auto are hitting the dealers in Mass....I am not sure how the trigger is on them or if they are modified to the " cant pull stage "
But that might be an option....John

Hi John - Glocks are a pain in the butt here in Massachusetts. Because of our various restrictions, any Glock that you're going to find is going to be crazy expensive. The AG's rules say that you can only buy older Gen 1 and Gen 2 guns plus a few early Gen 3 guns that were made before the cut-off date. Newer ones are available through private sales and through a small handful of rebellious dealers but you pay through the nose for them.

Truth is that I actually want the S&W M&P 45 despite the crazy trigger issues... a long story for some other time.

 

[TTSH]

Having a M&P with the Apex trigger (I also live in MA) and having tried an M&P from a free state without the Apex (free state factory trigger) I would go for the new one with the Apex kit.

First you are getting a new gun and second the trigger will be better.

Depending on where you live I might know a good gunsmith to install the kit, let me know if your interested.

Oh, I understand all that. But money is a big issue right now (consider me more than a little "financially challenged" at the moment) and that is driving my decision making on this. Per my post above, I'm most likely going to wait for my preferred (and lowest cost) dealer to get the MA-compliant model back in stock and eventually I'll do the Apex kit myself as time and finances allow.

If only that free state gun were just a little bit cheaper, I think I would go for it just to take the pressure off having to get the Apex kit right away. But so far, no dice.

 

[dimitri]

I'm in MA and bought a 9mm shield, and 9mm FS, both MA guns. I managed to get my hands on a non-MA M&P 45 midsize. I put Apex DCAEK on both 9mms, and their triggers are a lot better than the free state version. If you are comfortable installing the DCAEK yourself, buy the MA model and install the apex kit. Plus, I think it is fun taking the gun apart and seeing how it all works.

 

[TTSH]

Follow-up...

Per my post above, I'm most likely going to wait for my preferred (and lowest cost) dealer to get the MA-compliant model back in stock and eventually I'll do the Apex kit myself as time and finances allow.

First, the good news: My preferred, lowest-cost dealer finally got in a fresh load of affordable (to me) full-size M&P .45's.

More good news: The ones he got in might actually be the 48-state version rather than the crazy awful MA-compliant version. Won't get into how that could happen or why I strongly suspect it, but sometimes (rarely) it does happen much to the joy of us battered and abused Massachusetts residents.

But now the bad news: I tried the trigger pull on the full-size M&P .45 display gun (one of the new batch). It was bad beyond words. I mean just plain awful. "Unusable" is probably the most polite way to describe it. It was so bad that I couldn't tell whether it was a 6-1/2 pound trigger or a 10+ pound trigger. It was that awful.

Yes, I know... Apex Kit, Apex Kit, Apex Kit. The $100 "tax" we all have to pay to get a decent trigger on an M&P.

Bottom line is that I walked away... for now. The truth is that I am not quite ready to pay the Apex tax just yet. I know that confuses some of you but I have my reasons. I still want to know how the free state model I first tried out was so damn good when the various other ones I've tried ever since are so crazy bad. There may be a simple explanation, but right now I'm not ready to assume anything or ready to pay the Apex tax.

 

[Rastoff]

But now the bad news: I tried the trigger pull on the full-size M&P .45 display gun (one of the new batch). It was bad beyond words. I mean just plain awful. "Unusable" is probably the most polite way to describe it. It was so bad that I couldn't tell whether it was a 6-1/2 pound trigger or a 10+ pound trigger. It was that awful.

This makes me believe that it had the 10lb trigger. The M&P trigger is not very good, but it certainly isn't awful. Now, I haven't felt a 10lb trigger on an M&P, but I can imagine that it's quite tough to pull.

The trigger on an M&P shouldn't be so bad that you see an Apex upgrade as absolutely necessary (a tax as it were) to make the gun usable. An Apex kit is an upgrade, not a necessity.

 

[Johnmuratore]

Did you try more than one gun? I've found that some are better (or worse) than others, but having experienced the 10.5lb trigger first hand, I can tell you that its not easy to like.
If you are lucky enough to find an out of state gun, and more importantly, a dealer willing to sell it to you, you may not be happy with that either. Liking or disliking the feel of a trigger is a personal thing and you should try a bunch of guns until you find one that you like.
The Apex kits are very good but as Ras said, they shouldn't be a necessity.

 

[TTSH]

This makes me believe that it had the 10lb trigger. The M&P trigger is not very good, but it certainly isn't awful. Now, I haven't felt a 10lb trigger on an M&P, but I can imagine that it's quite tough to pull.

The trigger on an M&P shouldn't be so bad that you see an Apex upgrade as absolutely necessary (a tax as it were) to make the gun usable. An Apex kit is an upgrade, not a necessity.

It probably was the 10+ pound trigger despite other indications that it might have been a (rare in MA) free state model.

To put this into perspective, I own an SD9VE and an SD40VE, both MA-compliant and neither of which has been altered in any way. Both of them have better triggers than the full-size M&P .45 I tried today. Likewise, I own a full-size M&P .40, also MA-compliant and unaltered. It, too, is also noticeably better than the full-size M&P .45 I tried today.

Something is amiss here. The free state version that got me going on the M&P .45 in the first place was just fine as far as I was concerned. Today, that M&P .45 was all wrong. What gives?

 

[Rastoff]

Today, that M&P .45 was all wrong. What gives?

The .45 shouldn't be much different than your .40S&W. Therefore, I'd have to say there was something wrong.

Did you take the slide off? Maybe something is bound up in the sear. Some guns have been delivered with the sear disconnect pin missing. This could cause some binding with the sear. Definitely ask to see a different gun.

 

[icemn]

Well, I just picked up a Ma compliant 45c and the pull was north of 11 lbs.. IMHO the apex kit is an absolute necessity. At this point I'm at a hair over 8 lbs with an apex sear, usb and poly trigger kit installed. Big improvement, but still not good enough. Got an apex trigger spring en route and I'm hoping to end up in the low to mid 6 range. I will be thrilled with that. After that, nothing left to do. Btw, I also put in the new slide stop with the bump and the reset is dramatically improved.

 

[TTSH]

Did you try more than one gun? I've found that some are better (or worse) than others, but having experienced the 10.5lb trigger first hand, I can tell you that its not easy to like.
If you are lucky enough to find an out of state gun, and more importantly, a dealer willing to sell it to you, you may not be happy with that either. Liking or disliking the feel of a trigger is a personal thing and you should try a bunch of guns until you find one that you like.
The Apex kits are very good but as Ras said, they shouldn't be a necessity.

I only tried the full-size M&P .45 they had on display. If anything, that gun has probably been played with a bit. If it was way out of whack, you'd think someone would have known that. Still, you are right. It could have just been one very bad example. I did try out several other plastic striker-fired guns today, all of them used... but no other M&P .45's today. All the others were superior to the new M&P .45.

Must admit that I kinda lost my enthusiasm today for the full-size M&P .45. And yes, you are right: The Apex Kit should be an upgrade, not a basic necessity. I had not planned on putting in an Apex Kit immediately... but maybe I have to adjust my thinking and do the Kit immediately *or* come up with a completely different plan.

 

[TTSH]

The .45 shouldn't be much different than your .40S&W. Therefore, I'd have to say there was something wrong.

Did you take the slide off? Maybe something is bound up in the sear. Some guns have been delivered with the sear disconnect pin missing. This could cause some binding with the sear. Definitely ask to see a different gun.

I didn't mess with it. Not sure if that would have gone over very well. My next step will be to try what I know for a fact to be a free state version. That will tell me a lot and help determine where I go from here.

Well, I just picked up a Ma compliant 45c and the pull was north of 11 lbs.. IMHO the apex kit is an absolute necessity. At this point I'm at a hair over 8 lbs with an apex sear, usb and poly trigger kit installed. Big improvement, but still not good enough. Got an apex trigger spring en route and I'm hoping to end up in the low to mid 6 range. I will be thrilled with that. After that, nothing left to do. Btw, I also put in the new slide stop with the bump and the reset is dramatically improved.

Believe me, I hear you loud and clear. But budget and time constraints are working ferociously against me. I want a full-size striker-fired .45 that will work for me out of the box. It doesn't have to be perfect. I can always deal with perfect later. If that means I go with a different gun or even a used gun, so be it.

 

[1hatchet]

More good news: The ones he got in might actually be the 48-state version rather than the crazy awful MA-compliant version. Won't get into how that could happen or why I strongly suspect it, but sometimes (rarely) it does happen much to the joy of us battered and abused Massachusetts residents.

I have my doubt's as to this being a Mass. non-compliant firearm as that the dealer would not take the chance of selling a non-compliant gun and risk loosing his FFL and or worse. Have you checked the SKU#s from S&W for comparison?

 

[TTSH]

I have my doubt's as to this being a Mass. non-compliant firearm as that the dealer would not take the chance of selling a non-compliant gun and risk loosing his FFL and or worse. Have you checked the SKU#s from S&W for comparison?

I hear what you're saying. Practically speaking, the responsibility for assuring that new handguns sold here are MA-compliant versions rests, in large part, on the distributors. The dealers tend to trust the distributors and, in many cases, have no independent way of checking if the SKU is MA-compliant or not. Unfortunately, the EOPS list only lists model names or numbers, not SKU numbers (as it really should). Mistakes are rare, but they do happen. Some dealers are a whole lot better than others at weeding out non-compliant guns sent to them by mistake.

Beyond that, I don't want to say why I suspect these particular M&P .45's might be free state models. It could work out to my advantage... plus, I have no desire to "out" my favorite dealer.