M&P9 2.0 optics

[Beans4breakfast]

Greetings all! First post here.
Here is my dilemma:
A gentleman at a range let me shoot his PPQ with a deltapoint pro on it and i fell in love with the idea of getting a red dot sight for a pistol. Well i have absolutely no experience with installing a red dot or setting it up, other than the issued ACOGs.
The pistol that i would install it on is a M&P9 2.0 with a 5inch barrel. Its not a pro or core series. Im looking at the burris fastfire 2&3 as they seem to good entry points without spending a ton of money. Any input on the difference between to fastfire 2 and 3 would be helpful.
Heres the real question: After I get the sight, what do I do? Im reading a lot of stuff about mounting plates, cutting slides, or buying different slides but its confusing and i dont want to have a smith alter this gun before i know what im doing.
Ideally i would like some sort of cowitness with iron and optics.

 

[Joe4d]

forget the co witness, either use sights or optics, all those extras will just slow things down. Vortex Vipers are on sale now at midway for 179, U have to pull sight to change battery.. but it is pretty low. the Vortex has a top mount battery.
I returned the Burris. the battery compartment is ****, like one thread on cover and near impossible to start.
Most optic competition guys are running Vipers or Deltapoints.
Save the hassle and buy a factory gun set up for optics. Will come with all the plates u need.
You probably cant buy the plates, get a gun cut and or buy a new slide and get it cut for the same money as u can buy a factory gun unless u are going high end like a CZ. Plus u wouldnt be choppin on a gun ruining its resell value.
Most guns now offer a factory setup ready for optics. Glock, M&P, XDM,, Ive got the XDM osp with a Vortex Viper and really like it after a trigger job.
You can get a mount that replaces the rear sight. Sets things up kinda high. SOme folks say they are ok.

 

[jejb]

Heres the real question: After I get the sight, what do I do? Im reading a lot of stuff about mounting plates, cutting slides, or buying different slides but its confusing and i dont want to have a smith alter this gun before i know what im doing.
Ideally i would like some sort of cowitness with iron and optics.

Pretty simple if you want to be able to co-witness. The slide will need to be milled for the red dot. Some of the RDS's have some kind of sighting grove. My Vortex Venom on my 2.0 5" has that. But it's a sorry excuse for a co-witness sight compared to my Sig RX's.

 

[CB3]

How do you use the gun? You can't get meaningful advice without knowing if it's a target/range gun only, home defense, car gun, CCW (unlikely, I understand). Help us out please.

 

[Beans4breakfast]

How do you use the gun? You can't get meaningful advice without knowing if it's a target/range gun only, home defense, car gun, CCW (unlikely, I understand). Help us out please.

It is my range gun, one among several home defense guns that are usually out and loaded, and when im driving its usually in a satchel next to me.

 

[Beans4breakfast]

forget the co witness, either use sights or optics, all those extras will just slow things down. Vortex Vipers are on sale now at midway for 179, U have to pull sight to change battery.. but it is pretty low. the Vortex has a top mount battery.
I returned the Burris. the battery compartment is ****, like one thread on cover and near impossible to start.
Most optic competition guys are running Vipers or Deltapoints.
Save the hassle and buy a factory gun set up for optics. Will come with all the plates u need.
You probably cant buy the plates, get a gun cut and or buy a new slide and get it cut for the same money as u can buy a factory gun unless u are going high end like a CZ. Plus u wouldnt be choppin on a gun ruining its resell value.
Most guns now offer a factory setup ready for optics. Glock, M&P, XDM,, Ive got the XDM osp with a Vortex Viper and really like it after a trigger job.
You can get a mount that replaces the rear sight. Sets things up kinda high. SOme folks say they are ok.

The gun was $379 total after rebate. Im okay with spending a little to cut the slide if it cowitnesses. I dont generally resell guns so its okay if i cant resell it. My concern is that if im in a situation when i need this weapon and i break the red dot, i want to have irons as a back up.
If the vortex viper is shorter than the burris it sounds like that might be a better candidate for what i want and will start researching that.

 

[CB3]

Although the "Search" feature on this forum is difficult to use, if you enter a number of different variations on "Red Dot Sights"; RDS; Mounting; etc., you will come up with at least a half dozen threads with different experiences, products and ways to approach your objective.

It sounds like you've done some good research and have a general idea of what you want. The next step to refine your request is to determine what you are willing to spend. For a decent middle of the road optic you will probably spend $300. Milling is about $100. Elevated sights can be another $125.

My old eyes need help to focus for shooting and the RDS is a modern, superior sighting system that is a great although expensive solution. This is the gun I will most likely use for personal defense, although I have a 9mm Shield set up similarly. I'm worth it.

I don't recommend cheap solutions to outfit dedicated self defense guns. Range/target/plinking/fun guns, do whatever you want. A properly set up self defense gun will still perform almost all the other functions very well. Thus, the first big challenge in going RDS for potential self defense use is to get used to the idea of a big budget.

My main carry gun is a full size M&P 9mm 1.0. Three years ago I had a Trijicon RMR 06 milled into the slide and Heine Straight 8 co-witnessed night sights put in the front and back dovetails. Those enhancement more than tripled the money I had in the gun. It has been worth every dollar as my defensive shooting speed and accuracy have increased markedly. I really enjoy shooting it.

I don't care about voiding the warranty or resale. Available dollars to put into this gun have been budgeted, including other upgrades to the firing components, grip and an Apex barrel. My priorities are not the same as others. I have no regrets how I spent my money. The training classes I have taken have shown a superiority of the RDS system over others. I shoot about 4,000 rounds of 9mm a year, most of it through this M&P. I'm serious about my self defense guns.

I hope this perspective helps. Definitely get Co-witnessed sights and a milled slide.

 

[M29since14]

CB3, can you share with us who did the slide milling?

 

[CB3]

Suarez International—One Source Tactical. However, they do not do the S&W's any more. Cost was $100.

They also did my Shield with a Shield RMS Red Dot about 2 1/2 years ago. I also have two RMR'd Glocks (17 + 19) from them and their work is excellent. I just don't like the Glocks or shoot them as well as my M&P's.

 

[M29since14]

Any suggestions for a good shop that does mill S&W M&P slides?

 

[CB3]

Since I don't have experience with anyone else, I can't recommend anyone.

Note that you cannot mill for an optic on the new 2.0 with the Loaded Chamber Indicator because it protrudes into the area that must be cut.

Here's a shop ($95) I found through Google Search, "Custom Slide M&P". Note that it is unnecessary to refinish the RDS M&P cut on a stainless steel slide. It will be covered by the RDS and with a light coat of oil should not degrade in any way.
Pistol - Red Dot Cutout Service (NO Refinish Included)



– SAS Tactical Customs

I abhor windows and artistic **** cuts on a carry gun. I put my money into performance, reliability and carry comfort/shooting features. Many purveyors of slide machining are primarily selling these enhancements and RDS cuts are just an also-ran service.

I would not mill a slide for a cheap RDS unless the footprint was smaller than a good optic. Then later I would pay again to have the milling enlarged to fit a robust optic. Or, just bite the bullet and do it right once, the first time.

I have two Burris FF, a 1 + a 2. They are on .22's which is where they belong. Cheap is cheap is cheap.

 

[BBMW]

The obvious question here is when Smith is going to put out a CORE model of the 2.0 (both full size and compact)?

 

[CB3]

Good question, posed regularly since the intro of the 2.0. Internal profit concerns usually are the answer, but S&W doesn't explain.

 

[Beans4breakfast]

...Note that you cannot mill for an optic on the new 2.0 with the Loaded Chamber Indicator because it protrudes into the area that must be cut...

Uh oh. That may be the end of my red dot dream for a while.
Do you know if its possible to remove the loaded chamber indicator and then get the slide cut?

 

[CB3]

Mechanically I assume that is possible. Best to consult with whomever you choose to mill the slide.

 

[okiegtrider]

L&M Precision GunWorks will mill M&P slides, ATEi does as well. I had my own work done at ATEi. Both do terrific work.

 

[2puttmike]

M&P 2.0 optics

I had my M&P9 2.0 4.5 in barrel done at Ortiz gun shop in Savannah Georgia. Over 2000 rounds and no problem. They also had the Burris fastfire 3 in stock, I've had no problems with it.